Since the crazy woman was deliberately distracting horses and causing the problems, why doesn't everyone sue her in small claims court? Especially the parents of the child who was injured. That's deliberately causing harm to the child. And the video is good evidence. If the woman gets sued and has to pay for pain and suffering of the children, all who fell off, she will be hit in the pocket book. Which is about the only way to make someone stop something like this.
And the show circuit can ban her from all future events. Which is what should happen. People have to speak up and complain in order to stop that kind of behavior.
I, too am puzzled as to why the judge didn't stop the class and have the announcer say something like, "Please refrain from waving items around during the class." I have been to numerous ASB shows, where excessive "attention getting" has been called out by the announcer. As in: "Stop doing that and keep your hands outside the rail!" I don't have a problem with loud coaching...sometimes they need yelled at...but if you are waving something in the air and it is causing horses to spook that's another thing...especially if she did it deliberately.
But, again, not having seen the tape, it's hard to tell if she was as out of line as it sounds.
Not necessarily. Often Pony Club rally teams put an older OR more experienced member on a team with newbies and little ones, but it certainly was not always possible and still worked out great. Since rallies are based on rating level it's not unusual to have your D team be entirely very young and/or "first timers." I've been to many rallies where a number of teams were just that way: very young n00bs. And they did GREAT.
Horse Management, both the adults and the older pony clubbers helping out kept an eye on them, but it's astounding how the little kids every time rose to the occasion. With no mom or dad or bossy "big kids," as Redmond Dressage states, it was just glorious for the little ones who showed just how great they could be. Which is the entire purpose of pony club. Or at least it was back in the day.
Exactly. Bear in mind it was no Lord of the Flies situation. There were adults acting as chaperones and ensuring everyone is behaving/acting in a safe and appropriate manner. Everyone helped everyone else and we really got our chance to shine. Ours were always very well run and we learned a great deal. Much of pony club requires kids to handle things themselves. Ratings are similar - no parental help allowed and absolutely no coaching from parents or trainers. I credit basically everything I know about horse management to my years in PC. I still whip out the prettiest dang polo/stable/shipping wraps you ever did see
I had the opportunity to ride with some fantastic trainers as well including two Olympic eventers. I was horse obsessed and wanted to know absolutely everything about them so it was a much better fit for me than 4H. I found 4H incredibly stressful, educational opportunities were limited at best, and there were so many situations that were ridiculously unsafe. I will admit that I was pleasantly surprised at some of the changes for the better when I started letting my leasee take my horse to some of their shows... It was a bit better than when I was a kid but there were still loads of completely unsuitable horse/rider combos, ridiculous parental drama, and really unsafe situations.
I help put on open shows with a friend of mine and so far, everyone gets along pretty well and has a great day showing their horses. But I gotta tell you, if someone did what this woman did, whatever class was going on would be immediately stopped and the person asked to cease the racket, via loudspeaker. IOW, the person would be publicly called out for their behavior. We have exhibitors of all ages and safety is of utmost importance. My friend and I have been hosting these shows off and on for 7 years and knock on wood, only had 1 injury serious enough to call an ambulance (man was leading his mare out of the ring, father following too close behind and got kicked).
IMO, the videos should be submitted to the 4-H organization and the woman sanctioned and all placings by her daughter revoked.
"When a president can pick and choose which laws to follow and which to ignore, he is no longer a president. " Ted Cruz
Old time term for a woman with a big mouth, bad language, etc. Basically a obnoxiously loud harpy.
Came about probably because the wives of fishermen would be the ones selling what their spouses caught and way back when before refrigeration they had to yell fast and loud to get everything sold before it went bad.
So it was an insult to call women who weren't actually selling fish a fishwife.
A fishwife in pink has gotta be a first.
I don't mean to make light of a serious situation but I really gotta see the video.
It's one thing to cheer your kid on; even if it's a bit loud or a little inappropriate. Quite another to intentionally cause or intend to cause harm to competitors.
I hope the kids involved recover quickly and are back on their ponies having fun.
And I hope the parents of those kids get ahold of that video and identify the person responsible. Your [The OP's] description is of someone who intended to cause harm and that isn't something protected under equine activity or recreational use statutes. Nor should it be.
Last edited by JSwan; Sep. 16, 2013 at 05:57 PM.
Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
Thanks for your plan to step up - that is what is needed, that good and capable people do so.
I will caution you that you should plan a long game - turning around a difficult program will take a few years of patience and thoughtful effort.
I've been enjoying volunteering. My long time Hunter trainer and I have been putting on a couple of Over Fences clinics each year for the last couple and we've both judged for the Over Fences shows. This was my first year volunteering at the fair. I really enjoyed it (except for the pushy parents).
I'd never participated in 4-H as a kid, and when I was growing up, I saw a lot of not so great programs. The word was your program was only as good as your leader. I see a lot of improvement now, and a lot of really hard working kids. It really all depends on the club and the county.
And the level of cooperation and helping each other out was fabulous. I live in VA now and 4H here isn't even on the same planet. Leaders don't know enough, You don't really qualify for the state show. In Indiana you had to place 1st or 2nd (if first wasn't going to state in that class, to qualify). We didn't have pony club.
The leaders normally didn't know a lot about all divisions, but parents would step up and help with the parts they knew. Mine was the english and jumping. With the club having about 100 members, 80 of them were into gaming (barrels, poles, keyhole, etc)
In ice hockey, parents can create problems for the team and can actually be fined for behavior (the team is fined). If the referee calls it out, it is dealt with. However, parents and the team manager usually can keep parents in check and if not the ref takes over.
My point being, other sports deal with parents and at horse shows it should be no different. I certainly would not allow a parent to ruin a show for my child (or any other child), and even worse create a safety hazard for horses and riders out of their home safety zones. Watching children fall at horseshows is always disturbing for me, I have to really wonder about any person who could not be horrified by seeing children fall and get hurt.
I volunteer as a ring steward regularly and I can assure you, whoever was stewarding that class did NOT do their job. I would have had a Class 4 Meltdown on that woman after politely dragging her away from earshot of the ring.
Just checking in. No word from the boarder about putting the video on YouTube. I'm not sure where this situation is going particularly with the more seriously injured child.
I did look at the rules for this show from the 4-H fair's web site and there are tons of rules for the kids and no rules whatsoever for spectators/parents. I'm not even sure they can ask someone to leave.
I spent 10 years in 4-H as a kid and had a good experience. I went to plenty of 4-H shows. Sure kids fell off, but it was never because spectators were acting up on ringside.
My bet is the rules will be changed for next year. I sure hope that happens and steps are taken to enforce it. The fact that the woman's behavior was allowed to continue after the first accident is outrageous.
Last edited by IronwoodFarm; Sep. 17, 2013 at 06:47 AM.
This is exactly what they do at PC rallies There are chaperones that keep an eye on everyone and there is absolutely no parental contact from the time load in ends to the time you leave at the end of the weekend. For us kids it was GLORIOUS! Like being at a horsey slumber party. I'm pretty sure our parents loved it too. They were probably tossing back glasses of wine and having a grand old time without us
So your parents are not even allowed to watch as you compete?
Because if they are allowed to be near and watch while you compete then how is it any different? The OP's incident happened during competition, not having to do with a mother doing her daughter's braiding or anything like that.
An idiot parent at one 4h show does not paint the whole program as being bad.
I think both Pony Club and 4h have their good and bad clubs.
No, parents are certainly there to watch the ring just like spectating at any other horse show, or to go out and watch the xc course but you cannot talk to your child. No hanging on the rail, no yelling at your kid, no speaking to them, actually. You are there to watch, period. The kids do it all by themselves, helping each other. Each rally team has a stable manager and each club has a coach, which for us was a higher-level PC member who did the course walk with them and instructed them.
The kids adore it.
You can drive your trailer in to the Horse Management area when you arrive. You park your rig safely, then you get the heck out. No parents are allowed in the HM (trailer) area. There are adults and older pony clubbers in that area keeping an eye on things, but parents can't set up the tack room, wipe off boots, help the kid get in show clothes, groom the horse, tack up the horse, make sure kid is on time for inspection or their class, etc. There's usually an announcement as to when the HM area must be clear of parents. In the event of a problem, there are plenty of people to help: other pony clubbers plus the Horse Management adults; help of any kind is there always.
Once you're used to it it's a very relaxing day. You can go read a book or kibbutz with friends. The kids do it all. You can tell the new parents: nervous nellies, but they get over it. I remember one woman used to bring a spinning wheel, set up in a peaceful area and spin until time to watch her club compete.
The kids are also judged on the condition of their trailer area - safe, clean, neat. The first time we showed at an area horse show grounds, at the end of the day the owner was Stunned: he said he'd never had his grounds so clean after a show, he couldn't get over how impeccable the grounds were. No trash, no manure--everything cleaned up and put in its place.
And yes, this is strictly enforced. I've never seen a parent interfere during the actual competition portion - other parents would certainly have stopped that before it could happen, but I have seen parents try to finagle themselves back in to the HM area to give advice/instruction. They're always stopped & warned and because such interference is going to most definitely cost your kid's team points or even disqualify them, it's not a problem.
If you absolutely must get back there: you forgot your wallet in the truck, or forgot to give your kid some money for the snack bar, whatever, you simply go to an official who pages or sends for your child who comes to you to give/get whatever's needed. But it's all about your child, not about you, so parental interference is verboten.
I cannot believe no one stopped this woman? I know there was a woman who was "rumored" to spook ponies in her daughters divisions when I was riding ponies..so this is nothing new sadly
and forgive me if I am wrong or didn't read correctly...but several kids fell off and one broke her leg and was taken to the hospital and no one said or did anything to stop this?? I'm not questioning the story...I just cannot beleive people would be so apathetic when their child is being carted off to the hospital....
I was in 4-h and bad sportsmanship, just in attitude, could get you disqualified at a show...one saddle seat winner at a district qualifier show for state fair was elimiated all her ribbons and trophies taken back and her trainer and her were pulled aside and asked to leave..because they were angry she was second in a class and made some loud vocal comments about the judge and the winner.
I just cannot beleive this was allowed to continue and hope she is suspened from shows or whatever avenues the horse show associations and 4-H can take...her beahvior is everything opposite of not just good psortmanship and horemanship but what 4-H is about.
Please consider contacting the National 4-H Headquarters here in D.C.
OK, I hate to sound like a snob, but at least around here, 4-H is pretty scary. Kids are not held to the same standards of safety and horsemanship as kids at regular show barns are. (something about the parents wanting to keep things "down home" and "simple").
At a regular show, either rated or held by a local association, 1 there would not be that many people in the flat phase, they would split it simply because it is so unsafe. We split at 12, so in that situation it would have gone 10 and 10. Either double pinned, or 10 line up in the middle while 10 work on the rail and then a switch, singe pinned.
We would not have continued to work after all of those major interruptions. It would have been pinned fairly quickly after the first one. Like, that sounds like the never ending flat from hell. No judge I know would have ever kept the kids in the ring for that long.
If the steward wouldn't do anything about the disruptive behavior, you can bet your boots the judge would have. And radioed the announcer to instruct the woman to stop over the loudspeaker. We've done things like that before.
Lots of people falling down on the job here, not just the parent.
I'm not very impressed by 4H horse programs, either. I wish I had the time to volunteer- I don't know everything, but I've been around long enough to teach proper turnout, safe practices and good sportsmanship.
In any case, I can't believe someone didn't clean that chick's clock for acting like an ass. Even at ASB and TWH shows, where whooping, hollering and (reasonable) attention-getting are part of the game, this wouldn't have been tolerated.
Really long and strange to understand this, I had a great time at the show, and I was talking to a show steward by the office when the news came on her radio that there was an EMT with a girl, I walked over to the ring with the show steward. I saw the girl with the EMT and a bandage on her leg, looked possibly broken. I am a parent, but my kids were in Gymkhana. From My view, the show was well run...but it was a big show with lots going on. I did not see a helicopter come. I was unaware that more kids fell off. It's pretty hard for me to believe this parent would have been obviously interfering with the riders/horses in the ring, the place was certainly crowded. In the Gymkhana area, the volunteers controlled the situation pretty well.
The one time I judged a 4H I split any flat classes over 10. The ring was wet, kids were already having issue navigating the puddles, and I thought "better safe than sorry." Plus, it was a qualifying show and the kids were all fairly evenly matched and splitting gave me a little more time to focus and make minute distinctions.