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  1. #1
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Smile Why you shouldn't keep a horse in mud. #63 - Safe and sound in his new home.

    My pasture boarderd, fine boned, iffy hoofed, willful OTTB was removed from his just fine living situation, and is now relegated to a paddock with deep mud outside the run-in, two other new horses never thoroughly vetted, and two llamas. (See other thread)

    Help me list the arguments for novice barn owner against leaving them in knee deep mud (with only solid ground under and around the run-in). I know from my experience, but get verklempt when I have to make an emotional argument. Think a list will give me more clout, perhaps a level head. Am going to try one final time to resolve this.

    (I have been using Keratex for a few months, was about to start Durasole, but when turned back into solid mud, how is that managed?!?)

    Mine: pulled shoes/poorly maintained hoof, injury (help with all the possibilities), scratches, thrush...
    Last edited by CVPeg; Apr. 30, 2013 at 07:50 PM. Reason: add pasture boarded
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  2. #2
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    What are the other options? I'd rather have mine out in mud, within reason, than standing in their stalls all the time.

    This time of year solid, dry footing can be awfully hard to come by.
    Click here before you buy.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Why was he moved from his just fine living situation? My answer would depend on the reason.

    I have to say though, the barely vetted (do they have Coggins and vaccinations) horses would concern me the most.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    He was moved because BO has acquired more horses and she wants mine in with them to give them unlimited hay (which I've been asking her to notice since my guy has been losing weight). In addition this week took 2 of a neighbor's (who is being foreclosed on -found out from someone else). I am not heartless, but all she had to do was give extra hay to my guy and her 2 where they are. I am the only paying boarder, and have offered lots of benefits - pay extra for better feed, pay more if she's feeling burdened having to give my guy more hay (even though it's supposed to be unlimited), bought a nibble net so my guy's hay wouldn't be scarfed down by his pasture pal mini, have offered to repaint part of the run-in my guy has chewed, always pick up after myself.

    My guy needs shoes and is rambunctious. Hers are all solid citizens and need little extra care. It's time to get shoes on. Told her ok for a few days until he gets shoes perhaps (probably another week) and now she's saying that may be too bad, it may be his new home or else he goes in a stall. Have written about being bucked off twice last winter in that kind of set up and how he's really improved on turnout. What he had was fine. Small, but dryer (right now muddy covering hooves, but not suck your boots off deep).

    I am being picky, and my horse is the one most likely to get hurt, and the only one with shoes, and other than some of her friends have told her, some horses must have shoes. She knows how happy I've been since his set-up was great and I'm always expressing my appreciation. And it's why I moved him here. Board is low for the city, but not at all out here.

    But she hasn't had an injured or very sick horse yet. She sees the care I give to mine, but only has to groom and ride her bunch. They do keep the place clean, mowed, etc, but really don't get surfaces and horses. E.g. when the path to the turnouts got muddy before I moved there, they brought in regular gravel and rocks and added it to the dirt, and are looking to bring in more gravel - not pea gravel, but road gravel with rocks. Drives me batty, but I figure it's just walking over rocks to and from the ring. This winter was told they need to wet down the indoor and she did it when it was frigid out and we were riding in chunks of ice...or rather I didn't until it was worked in...

    She got these two as a "deal" (one came with rain rot...), because now she's going to train green horses (just learned to canter last year) and low weight but didn't get them vetted because "why?"

    I even hate bad mouthing her here - but it's to give you an idea. But my horse is my priority. I would just prefer he stay here and we get to go back to how it was, even though "we're a growing horse business". Well, not for boarders.

    Still could use a list - she just doesn't know all the nightmares a horse can get into. She does listen up to a point, and hoping if armed with the right number of ghastly tales, she'll not stay dug in. Thanks.

    PS The 2 do now have Coggins and vacs, but at purchase time, one did have to be picked up from the local vet, because she was being a babysitter to another sick horse dontcha know...
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
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    NE Indiana
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    Personally, I don't think knee deep mud is safe or healthy. Ankle deep is unavoidable at certain times of the year for some boarding situations.

    Scrathes, muscle and ligament strains, shoes being sucked off, risk of cellulitis, invonvenience when grooming....I can't think of anything else, but those are my reasons for keeping them in when the mud is really bad (we don't have knee deep though).

    FWIW I adopted a mare from a really dirty facility and she was knee deep in black muck - it took an hour and a half to scrape off the crap from her grey legs. For the next 2 years we battled scratches and that oily-fungus on her shins (I can't remember what it's called). I'm pretty sure it was from the unsanitary conditions she was literally,stuck in.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Feb. 1, 2012
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    that oily-fungus on her shins (I can't remember what it's called). I'm pretty sure it was from the unsanitary conditions she was literally,stuck in.
    I believe that oily stuff you're referring to is cannon keratosis and it's an condition that exists from the inside out caused by the horse's own glands.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
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    Minnesota
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    The only response you need to give here is "I do not want my horse living in that field due to the mud." You don't need to give her a dissertation on why a field full of knee-deep mud is bad for a horse. This ain't rocket science here...if it's not obvious why that's a problem, you're not going to be able to convince her that it IS a problem.

    I've followed your other thread as well, and I'm afraid to say...it's time to look elsewhere. Post haste. This barn owner is either too novice or too passive aggressive to do right by your horse.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    If you have told her why you want your horse in a different area and the BO is not willing I do not get why you think giving her a list of reasons will change that.

    Find a barn that provides the care you want and pay for it.


    I did chuckle that not only do you want them to fix the mud on the walk to the turn out but you want them to fix it how you want it fixed. Sigh. Crushed stone is not evil.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    If you have told her why you want your horse in a different area and the BO is not willing I do not get why you think giving her a list of reasons will change that.

    Find a barn that provides the care you want and pay for it.


    I did chuckle that not only do you want them to fix the mud on the walk to the turn out but you want them to fix it how you want it fixed. Sigh. Crushed stone is not evil.
    I've never complained to them about the stone. Not once. Because everything else was great. Just cited it here to give you an example of their not getting form to function. The point is, it is NOT crushed stone, but rocks and large gravel brought in to fill the path - wish it was crushed stone!
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  10. #10
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Agree with all who say it's probably time to move on. Just trying for the 10% chance a list will make a difference. Think the passive-aggressive observation is right on, but she does try to justify some decisions based on animal welfare. But considering the long distances between barns, it also means giving up the visiting trainer we have who is fantastic. And my either giving him up, or putting him totally out to pasture - which scares me - an OTTB without a job. He's not easy, and will not be for everyone.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  11. #11
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    Sounds like you're unhappy with just about everything there and then some. Time for a new barn.
    Click here before you buy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Nov. 16, 2004
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    NE Indiana
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    I just read the other posts, and I agree - just move on down the road. Life's too short for you to waste you patience on her.



  13. #13
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    Nov. 16, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
    I believe that oily stuff you're referring to is cannon keratosis and it's an condition that exists from the inside out caused by the horse's own glands.
    Thanks! I thought it was something else entirely - I appreciate the input!



  14. #14
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    Sep. 15, 2008
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    Michigan
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    The fact that you pay is reason enough.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Northeast
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    I would seem that the BO's new path of horse collector, and trainer is well on its way. And I suspect things will continue to go down hill, until she becomes overwhelmed.

    Move! Now! While the weather is gentle, and you have time to check your options.
    Interesting though, an indoor and only one paying boarder.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Jul. 3, 2012
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    Twin Cities
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    Ugh

    the myriad possible skin and hoof issues caused by wet are only exacerbated by the fact that it is rarely really "mud". It is usually a disgusting melange of manure (can you really pick it out effectively if muddy?) & urine (doesn't percolate through soil, remains with soggy gross ooze).

    regular defenses of the integument are destroyed by being constantly wet, then add the microbial disgustingness from manure & chemical insults of urine, etc.

    Every spring, I see horses near me in paddocks that require a kayak.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Well, daily this is my constant worry behind everything now, and tossing and turning every night. You know how it is when your kids aren't happy. So agree he should be elsewhere. But am in the middle of nowhere, took me some searching last year to find this place - the barns that are around for the most part are backyard barns with varying degrees of not the best care -this is just a very nice rendition of that, and right about becoming a collector I'm afraid.

    My guy is always a dear to be caught, but now I don't even have to go into the pasture. Soon as he sees me he comes to the fence waiting to be let out of there.

    Thanks for the items for my list. Lesson with visiting trainer today who agrees it's not a good situation. Hoping that armed with more info, the BO can come up with the right solution on her own. She has been much sweeter the past couple of days. 2 of the 4 places I checked into are not going to work. Waiting to hear on the other 2.

    If none does, though, he may have to be a pasture pony in a place I know I can trust, but it won't be near me. Boy, am I about to move to KY or VA about now where the boarding situations are endless! But my business has me here. Wish me luck that I make a bundle, and can sell it and move!!!
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  18. #18
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    Feb. 1, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by hundredacres View Post
    Thanks! I thought it was something else entirely - I appreciate the input!
    You can use Head & Shoulders shampoo to wash, curry it good, rinse, to remove what is already gathered there for gunk. Then to keep it away, curry the area every day to remove any cell buildup that happens within a day's time. It doesn't get "out of control" that way and stays clean.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  19. #19
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    Nov. 16, 2004
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    NE Indiana
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
    You can use Head & Shoulders shampoo to wash, curry it good, rinse, to remove what is already gathered there for gunk. Then to keep it away, curry the area every day to remove any cell buildup that happens within a day's time. It doesn't get "out of control" that way and stays clean.
    That was actually how I eventually got rid of it - I believe I read it here on COTH. Then I made a rinse with listerine also a COTH gem!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Mar. 8, 2009
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    Montreal, Qc
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    This winter was told they need to wet down the indoor and she did it when it was frigid out and we were riding in chunks of ice...or rather I didn't until it was worked in...
    Next winter, if you get snow where you are/if you are still there, tell her to bring and spread snow in the arena! That is the best and cheapest solution so far for dusty indoor arena during winter time! or to put magnesium chloride or even calcium to get the ice to melt.

    As for the muddy paddock....well, it isn't good at all. Step up for your horse.



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