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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post

    Sue and her group..like them or not...do provite the legislation...what is happening and the impact i.e. broken leg at Kentucky Derby and what could happen if a law is passed

    Sue says what it is they are trying to do.


    Sue has not been in court and lied under oath.
    So as long as she hasn't lied under oath, it's okay for her to lie?!



    Here is more on your beloved Sue:

    In January obsessive pro-slaughter advocate Sue Wallis and her "United Organizations of the Horse" published a request for her supporters to boycott celebrities and their films, music, etc., who supported animal issues. This call was followed up with a list of animal issue supporters.

    The irony in all of this is that Ms. Wallis not only acknowledged the broad base of support by celebrities for animal issues, but she saved us a huge amount of time researching who our allies actually were. As Ms. Wallis indicated in her bulletin, what she presented was only a partial list.

    Ms. Wallis cemented our "squirrel loose among the nuts" theory by including dead people on her black list, most notably the late Bea Arthur. Apparently if you are really dead serious about bringing back horse slaughter, you boycott the dead.


    Oh, she's a winner, that one.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    At EU plants? They have to use the bolt, and I doubt it is any more or any less of a production line, time is money operation. I don't see how the location of the plant equates more/less humane handling.
    I never limited Mexican slaughter to EU plants only. Equines are also killed by non-bolt methods if they cross to Mexico.
    Location does impose certain varying standards of humane handling.
    The facilities do differ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Half this nation is as far from Mexico as it is from Texas... we're closer to Canada. The argument that Mexico and Canada are that much farther for horses to travel than to Texas, or Ill [respectively] is just silly. Put a slaughter plant in every US state, or even every time zone w/in the US, and then you might have an argument that plants are now closer.
    We? Are closer to Canada? I guess that depends on location within the US. Apparently despite the closeness to Canada, some horses are being shipped to Mexico.
    And the entire Southern US is no more distant to Texas than Mexico? That argument is baseless. Any mileage calculator and map of the northern hemisphere can disprove it.
    Not to mention the delays at the border in less than reasonable holding facilities.


    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    When there were plants in Tx, horse still shipped to Mexico, so I don't think that opening a plant in the south is going to stop horses shipping across the border. Decrease it? Maybe, but there are so many factors now at play that could effect that I don't think there are any safe bets.
    So there was no increase in over the border transport numbers when the US plants closed? Untrue.
    People who transport and sell to slaughterhouses will go where there is the most profit and the least time wastage. Shorter than ‘to Mexico’ is definitely an incentive to them to sell within the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Each plant has their contract, and they will fill it... expecting a new plant, where ever you put it in the US, to get a slice of that potentially declining market, with demand after this mislabeling and drug 'scandal' an unknown is also not the most sound foundation to base a business on.
    So the market may decline in future? Implies it hasn’t yet.
    Businesses succeed or fail based on markets and over the long term equine slaughter appears to have had a rather stable market. Slicing off pieces of stable markets where a business has an advantage –like being the only game I town – is always to be expected.

    If the slaughter business will fail of itself due to lack of demand, why BAN it?
    That would be a waste of legislation.


    By the way:
    Silly
    Definition: absurd, giddy, foolish

    Synonyms: asinine, balmy, brainless, childish, crazy, dippy, dizzy*, empty, empty-headed, fatuous, featherbrained, flighty, foolhardy, frivolous, harebrained, idiotic, ignorant, illogical, immature, imprudent, inane, inappropriate, inconsistent, irrational, irresponsible, ludicrous, meaningless, muddle-headed, nitwitted, nonsensical, pointless, preposterous, puerile, ridiculous, senseless, sheepheaded, simple, simpleminded, stupid, unintelligent, unreasonable, unwise, vacuous, witless

    Antonyms: mature, mundane, practical, sensible, serious, wise


    I suppose you were trying to negate the seriousness of the questions raised in my post and chose the wrong wording. Nothing silly about it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    A poster?! Wow! Out of the hundreds of people who post on COTH, there was one...scary! Where is that poster now?


    Answer: I think she probably was either fired or told not to post as an HSUS employee.
    You can guess why.




    United Horsemen was founded by Sue Wallis and David Duequette...that fact alone makes their credibility iffy at best.
    Yeah, I didn't know who that group was or who is part of that, but I expect it will be hard to be any more objectionable than the very illustrious HSUS president is said to be:

    http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=6510



  4. #364
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    FOIA docs, 9 years old regarding an industry closed down 7 years ago.

    Canadian video...one only and you have never been able to PROVE via any government link, that is was forensically audited. That piece of information came from the RARA blog it was posted on.

    Guess you have nothing to state...so we can just leave it there


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    So as long as she hasn't lied under oath, it's okay for her to lie?!



    Here is more on your beloved Sue:In January obsessive pro-slaughter advocate Sue Wallis and her "United Organizations of the Horse" published a request for her supporters to boycott celebrities and their films, music, etc., who supported animal issues. This call was followed up with a list of animal issue supporters.

    The irony in all of this is that Ms. Wallis not only acknowledged the broad base of support by celebrities for animal issues, but she saved us a huge amount of time researching who our allies actually were. As Ms. Wallis indicated in her bulletin, what she presented was only a partial list.

    Ms. Wallis cemented our "squirrel loose among the nuts" theory by including dead people on her black list, most notably the late Bea Arthur. Apparently if you are really dead serious about bringing back horse slaughter, you boycott the dead.


    Oh, she's a winner, that one.



    It is not illegal to lie but it is illegal to lie under oath...HSUS and its sponsors are expected to lie...but we also expect them to be forthright when sworn in

    They have lied under oath.

    They have committed fraud

    But feel free to support them--that DOES manke you a HSUS supporter


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #366
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    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
    I never limited Mexican slaughter to EU plants only. Equines are also killed by non-bolt methods if they cross to Mexico.
    Location does impose certain varying standards of humane handling.
    The facilities do differ.



    We? Are closer to Canada? I guess that depends on location within the US. Apparently despite the closeness to Canada, some horses are being shipped to Mexico.
    And the entire Southern US is no more distant to Texas than Mexico? That argument is baseless. Any mileage calculator and map of the northern hemisphere can disprove it.
    Not to mention the delays at the border in less than reasonable holding facilities.




    So there was no increase in over the border transport numbers when the US plants closed? Untrue.
    People who transport and sell to slaughterhouses will go where there is the most profit and the least time wastage. Shorter than ‘to Mexico’ is definitely an incentive to them to sell within the US.



    So the market may decline in future? Implies it hasn’t yet.
    Businesses succeed or fail based on markets and over the long term equine slaughter appears to have had a rather stable market. Slicing off pieces of stable markets where a business has an advantage –like being the only game I town – is always to be expected.

    If the slaughter business will fail of itself due to lack of demand, why BAN it?
    That would be a waste of legislation.


    By the way:
    Silly
    Definition: absurd, giddy, foolish

    Synonyms: asinine, balmy, brainless, childish, crazy, dippy, dizzy*, empty, empty-headed, fatuous, featherbrained, flighty, foolhardy, frivolous, harebrained, idiotic, ignorant, illogical, immature, imprudent, inane, inappropriate, inconsistent, irrational, irresponsible, ludicrous, meaningless, muddle-headed, nitwitted, nonsensical, pointless, preposterous, puerile, ridiculous, senseless, sheepheaded, simple, simpleminded, stupid, unintelligent, unreasonable, unwise, vacuous, witless

    Antonyms: mature, mundane, practical, sensible, serious, wise


    I suppose you were trying to negate the seriousness of the questions raised in my post and chose the wrong wording. Nothing silly about it.
    Even when slaughter was open here, several thousand horses a yr were sold into Mexico to go to the local SH that kill using the knife to the spine method. That number of horses killed by that method remains unchanged. The meat is often disguised as beef and fed to the maquila workers. The increase in numbers exported to Mexico are for horses going to EU SH's which are killed exactly the same as we did in the US and Canada does currently. Having/not having slaughter here does not effect the number killed by the local SH.

    Regarding shorter trips...
    When we had slaughter here, horses were often transported from Sugarcreek and New Holland to Beltex in spite of Cavel or Canada being closer. Last yr, 70 horses were transported from WI to Santa Teresa POE (near el paso) and dumped in the desert after being rejected At the border. Canada is closer to WI than el paso. Over 5000 horses a yr have been abandoned at the borders when they were rejected at the border.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #367
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Better stop rolling your eyes...it is dangerous and silly

    FEEDLOTS,.... you just posted that. We are discussing EQUINES...I am not the only one who caught that. but now..you try and weasle out of your statement.
    Again Leo - and go back if you have to - the reference I made to feedlots was under the umbrella of the slaughter PIPELINE.
    Nothing to do with KY.

    My reference in regard to me inviting you to join me to travel to 'lots' - again- has nothing to do with feedlots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Those little holding pens are NOT feedlots...you know that...I know that...the readers know that...
    Well there ya go - we all speak the lingo. So why would I need to specify that when I talk about 'lots' it doesn't mean feedlots?

    Oh wait - this whole uproar is a way to deflect from a topic you refuse to acknowledge: the slaughter pipeline.

    You and your friends KNOW that there is and never has been any controlling/enforcing of regulations when it comes to the hundreds of KB's/traders who are in violation of the humane laws.

    Now go ahead, deflect some more...... Oh, you could use the word 'pipeline' for your hissy fit this time since horses are really not going through a "pipe" or a "line", or even a pipeline.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #368
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Again Leo - and go back if you have to - the reference I made to feedlots was under the umbrella of the slaughter PIPELINE.
    Nothing to do with KY.

    My reference in regard to me inviting you to join me to travel to 'lots' - again- has nothing to do with feedlots.



    Well there ya go - we all speak the lingo. So why would I need to specify that when I talk about 'lots' it doesn't mean feedlots?

    Oh wait - this whole uproar is a way to deflect from a topic you refuse to acknowledge: the slaughter pipeline.

    You and your friends KNOW that there is and never has been any controlling/enforcing of regulations when it comes to the hundreds of KB's/traders who are in violation of the humane laws.

    Now go ahead, deflect some more...... Oh, you could use the word 'pipeline' for your hissy fit this time since horses are really not going through a "pipe" or a "line", or even a pipeline.
    Old and tired abuse and mismanagement card, that's all.

    Most traders hauled without any "violations of the humane laws" as you call it.
    The ones that violated any rules were that, violating rules, doesn't mean that is the way all hauled or most hauled.

    When the plants were open here, most horses arrived in smaller, nice trailers without any problems, but that of course doesn't make good animal rights extremist propaganda.

    Remember, here, on a horse web site, we work on horse welfare, to make what we do better and better.

    All the drives to ban from the animal rights extremist agendas, well, they are a house of cards that doesn't hold up to what horse slaughter was, a business just as any other, managed at times better, other times had problems, was the MOST inspected of any and as such, had many inspector reports, of course, doesn't mean any more or less than that.

    You can do the kind of hatched job animal rights extremist do with horse slaughter, only presenting anything that was not done correctly, ignoring the millions of hours all went fine, all the hauling as any other horse is hauled out there, bringing up only those times some were not, etc.

    Well, as I said, a hatched job, not a true representation of what it was and, just in any other we do in life, done correctly most of the time and yes, not perfect.

    All that animal rights extremist propaganda is the way they divide and conquer, the way they keep people stirred up with causes, the way they get free publicity and donations, that is the bottom line here, or they would not exist at all, much less be the richest, multi-million animal rights extremist groups in the whole world, richer than some sovereign nations, on the backs of these controversies they stir up.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #369
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    SF Bay Area, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Oh wait - this whole uproar is a way to deflect from a topic you refuse to acknowledge: the slaughter pipeline.

    You and your friends KNOW that there is and never has been any controlling/enforcing of regulations when it comes to the hundreds of KB's/traders who are in violation of the humane laws.

    Now go ahead, deflect some more...... Oh, you could use the word 'pipeline' for your hissy fit this time since horses are really not going through a "pipe" or a "line", or even a pipeline.
    Deflection is a common tactic with much of the pro posters.

    I agree with you that controlling or enforcing regulations is non-existent. I will also remind people that horse tripping and transporting a horse out of state for slaughter is illegal here in California and I challenge those who say things will be different this time to let us know how something can be done nationwide that can't even be done in one state.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Old and tired abuse and mismanagement card, that's all.

    Most traders hauled without any "violations of the humane laws" as you call it.
    That's because there never was enough staff to routinely stop a vehicle for inspection. There are even less on the roads these days. Whether it's the USDA or DOT.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    When the plants were open here, most horses arrived in smaller, nice trailers without any problems, but that of course doesn't make good animal rights extremist propaganda.
    Um, no. When the plants in the U.S. were open most KB's used double deckers.
    DD's were considered inhumane and a danger for other motorists due to the unbalanced weight carrying horses on the upper deck.
    Those are just two of the reasons why they were banned in this country to use for trailering designated slaughter horses to the plants or any destination in between (in the pipeline)


    The rest of what you posted was just your hourly wash, rinse, repeat bla-bla-bla...

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #371
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    The pipeline

    ...has not shrunk since horse slaughter ended in the US in 2007. Horses to be slaughtered pass out of the US.

    The US has no jursidiction over Canada or Mexico.

    The only possible 'BAN' the US could do and easily enforce is close our borders entirely to ALL horse transport. This would end the pipeline. And seriously impact horse owners in all countries negatively - no shows, no exhibitions, no races, no sales, no new blood...


    Is this your aim?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #372
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    Mar. 23, 2010
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    I did find the United Horseman's FB page helpful. I discovered that the owner of a brand of tack I really, really liked is a supporter. I won't be buying from them anymore. Their transparency was short lived. The last time I checked I could no longer view their "Friends" list.

    ETA: I misspoke. You can still see their member list on FB. Some of the members are somewhat surprising and I have to wonder if they knew the purpose of this group when they accepted the "invitation." It's such an innocuous sounding name, isn't it?
    Last edited by newhorsemommy; Apr. 16, 2013 at 09:52 PM.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    That's because there never was enough staff to routinely stop a vehicle for inspection. There are even less on the roads these days. Whether it's the USDA or DOT.




    Um, no. When the plants in the U.S. were open most KB's used double deckers.
    DD's were considered inhumane and a danger for other motorists due to the unbalanced weight carrying horses on the upper deck.
    Those are just two of the reasons why they were banned in this country to use for trailering designated slaughter horses to the plants or any destination in between (in the pipeline)


    The rest of what you posted was just your hourly wash, rinse, repeat bla-bla-bla...
    That is how much you know.

    DDs are and have been in use safely for decades.
    Even the BLM hauled their adoption horses to the East in them, to Florida and other adoption centers.
    Most dude ranches at the end of the season send their string horses to pastures in the South in them.
    The larger ranches move their remudas in them.
    Rodeo stock contractors move their bucking horses in them.

    Oh, also, not all DDs are the same, many have adjustable floors and partitions, so you can change them around as your livestock hauling needs change.

    I think maybe you ought to not quite believe all you read in animal rights extremist web sites.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #374
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    I'm thinking about a new drinking game based on the appearance of the following words:

    Radical
    Agenda
    Extremist
    Animal Rights
    Propaganda
    Humane Society
    HSUS
    PETA
    Processing
    RARAs

    What I am forgetting?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    I'm thinking about a new drinking game based on the appearance of the following words:

    Radical
    Agenda
    Extremist
    Animal Rights
    Propaganda
    Humane Society
    HSUS
    PETA
    Processing
    RARAs

    What I am forgetting?
    the drink.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #376
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2007
    Posts
    1,079

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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    I'm thinking about a new drinking game based on the appearance of the following words:

    Radical
    Agenda
    Extremist
    Animal Rights
    Propaganda
    Humane Society
    HSUS
    PETA
    Processing
    RARAs

    What I am forgetting?
    Fanatics
    Cruelty
    Pipeline
    Poisoned
    Contaminated
    Kill Buyer
    Saved
    Rescued
    Sanctuary
    Profit
    Guardian
    Animal = Child

    Oh, you only wanted one side?
    Sorry.

    No point discussing with people playing drinking games: half an IQ wastes my time and theirs.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Old and tired abuse and mismanagement card, that's all.

    Most traders hauled without any "violations of the humane laws" as you call it.
    The ones that violated any rules were that, violating rules, doesn't mean that is the way all hauled or most hauled.

    When the plants were open here, most horses arrived in smaller, nice trailers without any problems, but that of course doesn't make good animal rights extremist propaganda.

    Remember, here, on a horse web site, we work on horse welfare, to make what we do better and better.

    All the drives to ban from the animal rights extremist agendas, well, they are a house of cards that doesn't hold up to what horse slaughter was, a business just as any other, managed at times better, other times had problems, was the MOST inspected of any and as such, had many inspector reports, of course, doesn't mean any more or less than that.

    You can do the kind of hatched job animal rights extremist do with horse slaughter, only presenting anything that was not done correctly, ignoring the millions of hours all went fine, all the hauling as any other horse is hauled out there, bringing up only those times some were not, etc.

    Well, as I said, a hatched job, not a true representation of what it was and, just in any other we do in life, done correctly most of the time and yes, not perfect.

    All that animal rights extremist propaganda is the way they divide and conquer, the way they keep people stirred up with causes, the way they get free publicity and donations, that is the bottom line here, or they would not exist at all, much less be the richest, multi-million animal rights extremist groups in the whole world, richer than some sovereign nations, on the backs of these controversies they stir up.
    I think the photos from Beltex taken over a year or so might illustrate that a lot of the horses didn't arrive in the best of shape, even though quite a few of them are duplicate shots of the same horses or situations. Also, I believe that a lot of the major haulers with contracts with the slaughter houses almost universally still have large unpaid fines on the books.

    The horses that arrived in smaller trailers were probably just horses from "off the street" and relatively insignificant compared to the regular haulers who had contracts.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post

    DDs are and have been in use safely for decades.
    Even the BLM hauled their adoption horses to the East in them, to Florida and other adoption centers.
    Most dude ranches at the end of the season send their string horses to pastures in the South in them.
    The larger ranches move their remudas in them.
    Rodeo stock contractors move their bucking horses in them.
    Do you even read before you hit the reply button?

    they were banned in this country to use for trailering designated slaughter horses to the plants or any destination in between (in the pipeline)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Oh, also, not all DDs are the same, many have adjustable floors and partitions, so you can change them around as your livestock hauling needs change.
    They are called floating decks and are NOT banned from transporting horses to slaughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I think maybe you ought to not quite believe all you read in animal rights extremist web sites.
    The more you post, the more it becomes evident that you are not knowledgeable on so many issues regarding the topic at hand. Wow......


    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011...2011-22762.htm




    December 7, 2006
    the regulations prohibit the use of double-deck trailers for commercial
    transportation of equines to slaughtering facilities.


    Effective Date: October 7, 2011.
    We are amending the regulations regarding the commercial
    transportation of equines to slaughter to add a definition of equine
    for slaughter and make other changes that will extend the protections
    afforded by the regulations to equines bound for slaughter but
    delivered first to an assembly point, feedlot, or stockyard.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  19. #379
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    So according to you and your group of slaughter proponents, everything will be different and better than it was before the plants in the U.S. were shut down?

    Like Fairfax claims to have worked on getting the slaughter process to be more humane.

    Since 2007? Plenty of time.

    So what have you done to clean up the slaughter pipeline. You know, the auction, the kill pens, the haulers, the KB's, the feedlots.

    Lets look at your post Laura

    Read the second line and then the third.

    I like your choice of words however I can live with claims because I do know we made a difference and all you have done is post..but then 2007????? That is clearly insinuating that somehow the slaughter plants that do not exist in the U.S.A. should have been cleaned up.

    The pipeline: Here you are moving into the new HSUS agenda where ALL of the supporters are to demonize ALL Auctions. There have always been good, bad and indifferent auctions. That is up to locals to become involved and make changes if they do not like them...The kill pens...these are pens that hold horses usually for a few days before they are shipped out. Of course Laura FORGETS that this is also where the BROKERS offer these horses..you know the cry...:...SAVE THIS ONE FROM SLAUGHTER...only $750.00 (but Christies friends only paid $50.00).

    Laura..you were a big time poster on how the KB's MUST start to offer the horses for sale and others were demanding it.

    Now you want to close the pen that allows them to be saved? Nice!!!!

    The haulers..well..every transport truck can tell you they do get checked and given tickets and fined on almost every trip due to a burned out light..or anything else. At the weigh scales they are inspected. Of course we have all heard of trucks "slipping" through however I expect that happens with the same frequency that your plate of food in your favourite restaurant is dumped on the floor and then picked up and served to you.

    Happens but is not the norm.

    But what have we done? The Canadian border vets are VERY active and fine or reject offenders. That is what they are there for.

    The KB's??? You just want them to stop bidding. They are buyers. Period


    And NOW those FEEDLOTS...you didn't even know about them until I told you on COTH. They had not been discussed. You have absolutely NO information nor have there been any complaints filed. Oh...wait...then Laura switches spots and deflects lin Jenn accusess everyone else of doing...

    Feedlots are now HOLDING PENS...which have been discussed under Kill pens which ironically save horses.

    There you have it Laura

    Bait and switch...twist and turn...you are like the tail on a kite.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #380
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    Another quote from this very same APHIS document:

    "However, as a result of the closure of slaughter facilities that handle equines in the United States, there is an increased need to transport the equines to
    intermediate points before transporting them to slaughter facilities.
    Therefore the risk for those equines being treated inhumanely has
    increased as well.


    For reasons that are elaborated in the final regulatory flexibility analysis, we believe that most transporters to and from intermediate points are already in compliance with most or all of the rule's requirements on a voluntary basis. However, we also need regulatory options to address the owner/shippers who have chosen not to transport them humanely."


    And isn't this interesting:

    "Sec. 88.1 Definitions.

    * * * * *
    Assembly point. Any facility, including auction markets, ranches,
    feedlots, and stockyards, in which equines are gathered in commerce.
    * * * * *
    Equine for slaughter. Any member of the Equidae family being
    transferred to a slaughter facility, including an assembly point,
    feedlot, or stockyard."


    2 members found this post helpful.

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