Does anyone know if the risk associated with Banamine (ulcers, kidney, liver) are higher with longterm Banamine vs longterm Bute? Sadly Bute note effective for him.
Any suggestions what I could give him alongside the Banamine to support his GIT and liver/kidneys?
Since this is may well be longterm, as in until his last breath, I'm leery of PPI's (blue pop ) daily, opens up another set of problems (affect Mg levels, digestibility in foregut) but open to anything else.
At present he's on one cup of lecithin a day, after I read a study it can negate NSAID induced ulcers.
Any other safe additive I could use? Would Aloe Vera make any sense?
How about something to flush kidneys & liver?
I am not sure of your immediate questions, but are you giving the paste version? Because that can get expensive. Perhaps it would be more cost effective if you purchased the injectable, and administered that orally?
"If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."
Thanks SFH, we are looking into compounded versions and vet also said it may well be absorbed from the liquid injectable, haven't tried that yet.
If anyone knows this to be correct, please share. Do you syringe injectable Banamine in mouth or in feed?
Because you are right in the long run this is going to get expensive, but I haven't even broken my head over that yet, just trying to find what makes him most comfortable. Banamine shows to be the answer at present.
My question is, is there anything I can supplement/feed that could help his kidneys & liver, git when using Banamine longterm and is that a safe combination. For example can I safely combine slippery elm or ?? with Banamine long term, I don't know if it would be useful to do so.
I know there are many posters on here having horses on years of Bute without any liver/kidney/ulcers problems at all, so I was wondering if Banamine has the same risks as Bute (in which case he'll likely do okay) or if Banamine poses increased liver/kidney risk vs Bute.
I haven't heard of many horses on longterm Banamine, was wondering if perhaps the risks are higher.
Not really long term, but my guy was on a full dose of banamine for nearly 5 months last year for a corneal ulcer. AFAIK, it did no damage to anything...his bloodwork was good and he does not have any symptoms of ulcers. I did not supplement him with anything but he does get lots of alfalfa in his daily diet.
Thank goodness I found out about giving the injectable orally through COTH! It controlled his pain well and saved me a lot of $$. I mixed it with applesauce and squirted it in his mouth. It seemed to be as effective as the paste.
Fab, thank you caryledee, this is very re-assuring to read.
He's getting some alfalfa am & pm.
Sorry stupid question, but how did you mix it? Did you mix the liquid & applesauce in a bowl and than pulled into an oral syringe, did you have to use some extra Banamine to make up for some loss doing it that way. Or did you open up syringe poured in applesauce with Banamine and closed end of syringe again?
Did you do bloodwork at the end of the 5 months or already prior.
We did the bloodwork towards the end. It was done to see if there were underlying conditions for his issues, but he had been on banamine for about 4 months at that point and everything was normal.
The way I mixed it was I took a big catheter tip syringe and drew up the applesauce into it. Then I took another syringe, drew up the banamine, and squirted the banamine into the applesauce through the catheter tip of the syringe. It mixed itself. You just have to make sure to leave air space at the top of the applesauce syringe for the banamine. My guy is a somewhat picky eater and he was okay with the taste.
Ah, thanks for explaining this! I can do that, he's very good about syringes, so this should work.
That'll sure save me money, for now I wasn't too bothered about the cost of paste, I needed to see if it would indeed help his symptoms, but since he has hugely improved whilst on it, I do need to find cheaper ways.
Good to read you had normal bloodwork, I will discuss with my vet to do bloodwork after a few months to see how he takes it.
I had a horse on banamine for several months due to uveitis and I just poured some molasses on his feed squirted the banamine over it and shook the bucket a little bit to mix it up. This may not work for a pickier eater.
Like others have mentioned he had blood work done about midway through treatment and there were no isssues.
My mare was on twice daily banamine for close to a month last spring when she lived in ICU at A&M. She was running a high fever and banamine was the only thing that relieved it. No lasting effects. It was given IV, but because they were administering twice daily, she had a port in her neck. Not exactly what you were asking about, but I thought I'd share that my mare had no issues from long-ish term use.
It needs to be absorbed by the mucus membranes in the mouth, not sure if mixing it with something would complicate that or not as you don't want him to swallow the injectible version.
Not sure how this could be true. If you squirt several ccs of anything in a horse's mouth, it is going to be spit out or swallowed. Absorption takes awhile. My understanding is that the banamine is absorbed by the mucosa, but this includes the mucosa in the mouth, esophogus, and stomach.
It was very effective on my guy to give the injectable orally. It was very easy to tell because he was extremely painful without it.
Risks and side effects of NSAIDs are pretty much equivalent. The putative differences between different drugs in this class (COX-2 inhibitors being the exception) are mostly urban legend. I would (and do) consider ALL NSAIDs interchangeable.
Dosing injectable drugs via the oral mucosa (let me draw a distinction here between just "squirting it in their mouth" vs. giving it in the lingual pouch/between cheek and gum) allows for perhaps slightly faster absorption into the bloodstream as you *temporarily* bypass GI ingestion and first-pass hepatic metabolism and higher blood levels of the drug can happen much more quickly. HOWEVER, this does NOT give one a "pass" on the GI side effects, which do not require direct exposure of the gastric mucosa to the drug.
I do know very many horses live on Bute without an issue
It is *astonishing* how many humans do the same witih their Aleve/Motrin. Many of them with no problems. These drugs should not be sold OTC, IMO--behind the counter with mandatory review of risks with a pharmacist would be my preference.
I would be very careful it can lead to Kidney failure....I have never heard of anyone using that Drug for any real long term pain or inflamation care.....and I have used this drug in oral paste and IV form for years, but no continuous
Just suck up the injectable banamine with the syringe, remove the needle, and squirt it into the horse's mouth. It's not difficult and its not a lot in terms of volume. Really no need to mix it with anything, including mixing in the syringe. And, I would avoid trying to feed it in grain anyways, because I believe banamine is one of those that has a horrid taste, and its quite difficult to disguise in feed.
"If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."
Thx jduybigredpony, I kind of thought there was something about kidneys & liver with Banamine moreso than Bute, but can't find any reference to it. I wished there was something else we could use, but it's the only thing that gives him a night & day difference comfortwise (DSLD). Such a happy horse again compared to before. Tried so many other drugs to no avail. His demeanor, his playfulness, the way he strides around, no more colics, it's all good again. I know we are masking, but I want to extend his life a nice while longer in comfort, else I will pull the plug.
I will continue to look into other options, but definitely at this moment in time he deserves a break from the pain.
Not sure if there's any benefit in doing 5 days on 2 days off, or 3 weeks on 1 week off.
Thx SFH, correct, not that large a volume, will try that too, I do like the idea of the applesauce mix however.