[Kadenz]

And if you *actually* wanted to get an answer, you'd have talked to the judge AT THE SHOW. Or the TD, if there was one. Putting this on COTH, seems like you just want to air your grievances.

[Lieb Schon]

I get what you're saying, but a) it's okay for a judge to make a comment like that in the comments section - not okay to mark down for it. They're totally allowed to make a comment like "large manure stain on horse's flank," because that SHOULD be noted, even if they can't mark down for it. Get it?

And b) this person wasn't necessarily a USEF licensed judge. Anyone can judge a schooling show. Was the judge listed as being a USDF "L" graduate or a USEF judge?

But yeah, thanks for assuming the rest of us don't know WTF we're talking about. I've only been showing dressage for years. "amateur hour" my @$$.

I have not included you in my question. Your F Bomb reference is inappropriate Actually I did dressage, fox hunting, and combined training in MD and NC 20 years ago. So let's just say I've "revisited" the rules recently so I could "honor the sport." And let's just say that because I thought my horse's bottom would be enhanced by the clean look of braid, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that not just braiding, but TAIL braiding was acceptable among the rules of the USDF. Bottom line is it isn't what YOU know or don't know. But the judges ARE responsible to know these things. I don't care about any score. What I want to do is educate everyone so that they know that if someone cares to FOLLOW the specifications and braid a tail, there should be no mention of it at all.

[Lieb Schon]

Oh please, you don't need to be a rated judge to know this rule. I'm an ammy from eventing land and even I know its allowed.

But, as others have said, it can sometimes cause the horse to carry the tail stiffly. And since the tail is an extension of the back, and the back is something the judges care about in dressage, most people won't risk that happening. And therefore, its not seen often. Doesn't mean its not against the rules.

Personally, I think braiding the tail in dressage looks about the same as putting in button braids in a show hunter--not illegal, but very out of place.

Well for what it's worth I braided the "String of Pearls" for Hokan Thorn MANY a time.

[quietann]

OP, your attitude isn't helping you here. There are a couple of r-level judges who post here occasionally, but not often enough that they'd necessarily see your question. But a lot of us are very, very good at reading the rule book

I'd put a braided tail in the same category as a figure-8 noseband -- allowed, but uncommon enough that some judges might see fit to comment on it. That particular comment sounded pretty rude, though.

[Lieb Schon]

No. I just want someone who is qualified as a judge to answer this question. Did you read the question?

[Lieb Schon]

There was no need to talk to the judge. The scores were fair mostly, and I frankly could care less about the show. This was a task for the horse to see how she would like it. And where I come from, it is poor form to question the judge.

[caballero]

Call me crazy but I would think the comments on the card should be reserved for things the rider may find useful in interpreting the scores or additional information that the rider could use to improve the training of his horse or his effectiveness as a rider.

Pointing out silly things (like "we just braid in dressage" or "we don't use black tack in hunters") seems a waste of space and ink.

[dilligaff2]

No. I just want someone who is qualified as a judge to answer this question. Did you read the question?

I read your first post and there was no question. Just a complaint.

Our first dressage schooling show. Hunter horse/ rider combo. Rider reads ALL USEF and USDF rules regarding turnout for both warrior and steed to assure proper equipment and turnout. USDF rules say "braiding tails acceptable." Judge writes on card "We do not braid tails in dressage."

Ummm.......

You already knew the rules as you posted them above. You were not marked down and you now say it is improper to question the judge. Nobody can read that judge's mind so the only chance to question why they added the comment is past as you chose not to follow up.

As pointed out, the person may not have even been a rated judge to begin with.

If you got a comment stating that stirrup leathers are normally longer in dressage or that a longer whip is more common vs a bat would it matter?

[alibi_18]

There was no need to talk to the judge. The scores were fair mostly, and I frankly could care less about the show. This was a task for the horse to see how she would like it. And where I come from, it is poor form to question the judge.

No. I just want someone who is qualified as a judge to answer this question. Did you read the question?

Really?

What I want to do is educate everyone

[merrygoround]

TROUBLEMAKER?

I hope that's a joke. When has it become trouble to have your horse turned out beautifully for the judge? --Quote LiebSchon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


#1-I didn't say I would not, did not braid. However for those us who qualify as senior citizens, and self-grooms, braiding can be difficult. Adding a tail to the chore could be onerous.

#2 Most of us do not care that you have braided for a BNR.

#3- Get yourself a sense of humor if you do not plan to beat a rapid retreat from this BB!!!

[alto]

Our first dressage schooling show. Hunter horse/ rider combo. Rider reads ALL USEF and USDF rules regarding turnout for both warrior and steed to assure proper equipment and turnout. USDF rules say "braiding tails acceptable." Judge writes on card "We do not braid tails in dressage."

Ummm.......

Not sure why you are taking a judge's comment to imply a lack of comprehension of the USDF rules (which are only 1 set of many): judge included a comment/opinion on your score sheet - a tradition which is greatly encouraged in dressage
(you need to hear the complaints when you get a show judge that is sparing with comments )
- did not disqualify you or call you over for a verbal reprimand/correction, both of which occurrences are at the judge's discretion should you actually be in violation of a rule ...

[alto]

Report the judge. The comment shows their basic lack of understanding for the USEF rules. They need to be re-educated and called out for such stupidity.

EDIT: Oops. Just reread it was a schooling show. I'd let the USDF know if it was a L graduate. If not, I'd walk up to them after the class and show them the rules and let them know they were wrong and let the show secretary see the judging faux pas.

No, it is not common. But it is your option!

Why do you believe - insistently, with apparent great umbrage - that the judge was unaware of the USDF rules

The comment section of the sheet encourages judicial expression/opinion - the judge did just that - because the judge clearly stated his opinion, the judge is now
stupid
uneducated
wrong

[SillyHorse]

The judge was way out of line. "We do not braid tails in dressage"??? Who is she, the Queen of England? A comment like this absolutely does NOT belong on a test sheet. It doesn't even belong in anyone's head.

Would it be ok for her to write "We do not use forward seat saddles in dressage" or "We do not wear three-button jackets in dressage"? I hope she was just some know-nothing local yokel and not an L grad, much less anything higher up.

By the way, the rules are written by the USEF, not the USDF.

[dilligaff2]

Well for what it's worth I braided the "String of Pearls" for Hokan Thorn MANY a time.

And yet, not one braided tail on his website.

[vxf111]

I disagree. I think it's totally fine to comment on turnout in the comments. I've gotten, and seen, such comments, and I don't think they're inappropriate.

I agree but I also think there's only so much room for comments and the space is better used for more fruitful comments.

BUT the judge likely thought you were nicely turned out in general and a crossover from hunters at a schooling show learning the ropes so she was probably just trying to give you a tip assumping your goal was to fit in better.

I don't think it was a helpful comment, actually, but I'd take a deep breath and accept it in the spirit is was likely intended-- to help you succeed.

[enjoytheride]

I agree with sillyhorse. It seems to me that the DQs got on the defensive when a hunter rider wanders into their sandbox. The comment was innapropriate. Imagine if the judge said "in dressage we clip the whiskers" or "in dressage we put shoes on our horses" braiding tails is a metbod of tu?rnout thatmight be out of fashion but I disagree that it affects the back. Who cares if it was "only" a schooling show or the scores were good. Maybe they would have been higher without the tail being braided under this judge.

[Velvet]

Um, wow. You do know that with all our alters out here you are not going to be able to tell right away--and with the chip you're putting on your shoulder, they'll never fess up when replying!

(I WAS on your side. But the attitude of your replies is really off-putting. )

[Velvet]

I agree with sillyhorse. It seems to me that the DQs got on the defensive when a hunter rider wanders into their sandbox. The comment was innapropriate. Imagine if the judge said "in dressage we clip the whiskers" or "in dressage we put shoes on our horses" braiding tails is a metbod of tu?rnout thatmight be out of fashion but I disagree that it affects the back. Who cares if it was "only" a schooling show or the scores were good. Maybe they would have been higher without the tail being braided under this judge.

The people who say it impacts the horses movement are not able to back it up with ANY data. I agree that they are simply stating that as a reason for hating it. It's a personal thing--and uber DQ. Man, this is just getting so stupid.

If it's within the rules and the judge doesn't like it, they need to shut up and do the job they were paid for without that biasing their ability to judge the horse and rider in front of them. If we're turning dressage into a freaking fashion show, then we've gone the way of so many breed classes and even hunter shows where the judges will ADMIT that turnout was their way to break a tie. )

Our sport is already going to he** due to people crossing over from other disciplines and dragging their baggage. Can't we all just go back to the rule book and just make sure the judges use it to--so it's all fair? (Dang, I'm almost tempted to throw in a rollkur reference, but I'll refrain. )

[Velvet]

And yet, not one braided tail on his website.

I'm missing your point. It's a fashion thing. If he doesn't like the fashion, so be it. If Steffen decided to do it, what do you beat everyone out here would be practising tomorrow?

I like the braided tail. She stood out. She's an individual. It's good to stand out from the crowd--as long as your horse is trained and ready to do the test.

[Velvet]

The judge was way out of line. "We do not braid tails in dressage"??? Who is she, the Queen of England? A comment like this absolutely does NOT belong on a test sheet. It doesn't even belong in anyone's head.

Would it be ok for her to write "We do not use forward seat saddles in dressage" or "We do not wear three-button jackets in dressage"? I hope she was just some know-nothing local yokel and not an L grad, much less anything higher up.