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  1. #21
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    I trade out hay for lease on a horse, that helps both of us out as neither has to pay out money all at once and honestly we would just trade money back and forth so it really does not affect what I would pay in taxes.

    I also pay cash as much as possible simply because it makes me think more often about what I am spending.



  2. #22
    up-at-5 is online now Advanced Premium Member
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    So, all of you who wouldn't barter or pay cash, if you earned a hundred bucks, say, braiding, maybe plowing someones laneway, mucking a few stalls, anything, really, would you then include that 100 on your stated income for your annual tax return? Somehow I doubt it.
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


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  3. #23
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    If you look at my post #56 over on Beentheredonethat's thread about cutting spending and increasing revenue, I brought up the issue of avoiding taxes on all levels of our society and proposed a national sales tax as the fairest method to raise revenue.

    The only response that I got to that idea was something like "you are absolutely right I avoid paying taxes, blah, blah." Everyone seems to think that it is perfectly okay for them to avoid paying taxes, and I am telling you that the problem is HUGE in this country. Not just people working "under the table" but anyone who works for themselves (electricians, plumbers, car mechanics, etc.) and anyone who works mostly for tips (waitstaff, taxi drivers, etc.)

    It is not just the rich (although Sen John Kerry recently got caught taking delivery of a yacht in another state to avoid paying sales tax on it) but EVERYONE. That's why I am in favor of a national sales tax. People who have the disposable income to buy more stuff would pay more tax. But since everyone cheats, no one wants to consider it.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    Somehow I doubt it.
    Me too. I doubt most people even know what has to be reported as income.



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Farrier services are not subject to sale tax in our state. Not sure if it is anywhere in the US.
    When you pay in cash, the FARRIER will not report that as income so it won't be subject to INCOME TAX. It isn't about the sales tax when you pay someone cash. Last I knew there was a rule that requires you to give a 1099 form reporting to the IRS how much you paid someone in the previous year if it was over $600 so that the IRS would get the income taxes on it.

    I am not singling you out. No one does this. I am pointing out that the current tax structure and enforcement in this country is absurd. No one is paying the taxes that they should--whether through legal loopholes or illegal tax avoidance. We need to change things!
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  6. #26
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    The 1099 requirement is required for a contract employee. A farrier, vet, etc. are independent contractors and you do not have to provide a 1099.
    "I couldn't find my keys, so I put her in the trunk"


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  7. #27
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    FitToBeTied, that is NOT correct.

    Last year I had to 1099 my farrier and barn owner.

    Paranoid me reports all my income, including when I receive cash for riding lessons, etc. I have known too many horse people who have been audited!


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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    The 1099 requirement is required for a contract employee. A farrier, vet, etc. are independent contractors and you do not have to provide a 1099.
    Independent contractors are the ones to whom you are supposed to give 1099 forms. Here's the IRS link- http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...nt-Contractors

    So when someone asks you to pay in cash, they are asking you to help them cheat on their taxes. That's what the discount is really for.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  9. #29
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    Well I'm a farrier and I report ALL my receipts including those in cash. I was a CPA some years ago and believe me, tax evasion is not something you want to get caught doing. My books are 100% straight as a result.

    So Kerry gets caught evading taxes and gets nominated for Sec. of State? What a screwed up gov't we have. Seriously...


    8 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    I think we need to encourage people to pay their taxes, as it always works fro the welfare and prosperity of our economy and overall country's progress. But most of people, specially rich one's use to avoid or shorten their taxes payable by any means. Which is very harmful for the economy and others.


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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Well I'm a farrier and I report ALL my receipts including those in cash. I was a CPA some years ago and believe me, tax evasion is not something you want to get caught doing. My books are 100% straight as a result.

    So Kerry gets caught evading taxes and gets nominated for Sec. of State? What a screwed up gov't we have. Seriously...
    I know you have said you are an accountant, so you already know this, but others may not.

    Our accountants are a reputable firm, very careful that we know what we have to do and what not.
    If we were not to carry our books as the laws demand, they would not keep us as clients.

    The trouble with starting to cut corners a bit here and there is that, human nature, you get by and keep getting by and before you know it, you may be really cheating.
    For those that say some neighborhood kid raking the leaves paid in cash is ok, double check with your accountant, don't ASSUME anything.

    There is a limit over which you have to report and send a 1099, but you still have to keep records and be accountable for all and any money you use.
    When a neighbor is out of hay and needs a few bales to tide them over, I give it to them.
    That is considered a non-taxable gift.
    If they need considerably more and pay for it, I ask for a check and they get a bill of sale.
    That is miscellaneous income and I pay taxes on it.
    It may be deductible for them.

    When someone delivers, say, hay and demands cash and doesn't has a bill of sale for it, I have blanks and hand them over to them.
    Solves the problem in a hurry.

    A very good accountant will save you money with proper deductions and teach you very much, so you don't happen to get in serious trouble.
    Ignorance of the laws is no excuse if and when you are audited.


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  12. #32
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    bartering is an important part of the financial equation for many vermonters, i don't see how we would thrive without it frankly.
    this month alone i have bartered riding time for coaching sessions, a fabulous maple table for a living room greenhouse thingie, and the best is two full days of carpentry services for four riding sessions for my carpenter's wife.
    i always barter massage for riding time too, is there something wrong with doing so?
    it's a way of life here.


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  13. #33
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    Learn something every day. I thought independent contractors were not 1099'd.

    I've never provided a 1099 to a farrier, vet, contractor, etc. and I'm not going to start now. I view it as the recipient's responsibility to report.

    Basically I am of the viewpoint that the government is tremendously inefficient and wasteful with the tax dollars they already get. I am all for hiding as much money from them as possible. Barter away!
    "I couldn't find my keys, so I put her in the trunk"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    So Kerry gets caught evading taxes and gets nominated for Sec. of State? What a screwed up gov't we have. Seriously...
    Yup. BILLIONAIRE John Kerry. I keep saying that tax evasion or tax avoidance is our national pastime. No one cares because everyone it doing it.
    And no offense to Suz from VT above, bartering is wrong because income in the form of goods and services is still income, and taxes are supposed to be paid on all income.

    EVERYONE is complicit in this attitude. We all think that the other guy ought to pay but not us. If you are poor, you are exempt under the tax code and apparently 47% of us are in that category. Otherwise, you should be paying the full amount of your taxes.

    Another huge problem is that the IRS has been pretty much gutted. There is not very much enforcement any more, so people know that they can not report income and the odds are that they won't get caught.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    Basically I am of the viewpoint that the government is tremendously inefficient and wasteful with the tax dollars they already get. I am all for hiding as much money from them as possible.
    Wow. Just made my point. This is EXACTLY people's attitude.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    Learn something every day. I thought independent contractors were not 1099'd.

    I've never provided a 1099 to a farrier, vet, contractor, etc. and I'm not going to start now. I view it as the recipient's responsibility to report.

    Basically I am of the viewpoint that the government is tremendously inefficient and wasteful with the tax dollars they already get. I am all for hiding as much money from them as possible. Barter away!
    I think that is very basic tax rules.
    You have to get the social security of any independent contractor you pay over, last I remember, $600 and send them a 1099 form by January 1st.
    That is for us in farming.
    Banks will send 1099s for interest earned.

    Computers will correlate that to reported income from those you report to have sent 1099s and they better match.

    If you don't like tax laws, don't ignore them, work to change them!



  17. #37
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    RE: Bartering. Honest question.

    For example:
    Someone gives a riding lesson in exchange for four bales of hay.
    No cash has changed hands.
    Where does the money come from to pay the tax on that exchange?

    If you happen to do most of your business this way how are you going to have money to pay tax on the barters?
    Kanoe Godby
    www.dyrkgodby.com
    See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDE Driver View Post
    RE: Bartering. Honest question.

    For example:
    Someone gives a riding lesson in exchange for four bales of hay.
    No cash has changed hands.
    Where does the money come from to pay the tax on that exchange?

    If you happen to do most of your business this way how are you going to have money to pay tax on the barters?
    That is why bartering, nice as it sounds to cut the middle man there, the tax collector, doesn't work in reality for any societies that have some public services to perform.

    As a personal way of doing business, bartering would be fine if all trade was like that, ALL.
    Society is too complicated for that any more.
    How would you barter with someone in China for the kitchen knife you need?

    Money and all the rules around it is like a voucher for bartering, one that you can then use anyplace, on anything.
    Taxes are how we pay for the basics societies need and provide to all.



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDE Driver View Post
    RE: Bartering. Honest question.

    For example:
    Someone gives a riding lesson in exchange for four bales of hay.
    No cash has changed hands.
    Where does the money come from to pay the tax on that exchange?

    If you happen to do most of your business this way how are you going to have money to pay tax on the barters?
    The most accurate information would be at the IRS website.

    http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...ng-Tax-Center#
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luseride View Post
    I trade out hay for lease on a horse, that helps both of us out as neither has to pay out money all at once and honestly we would just trade money back and forth so it really does not affect what I would pay in taxes.

    I also pay cash as much as possible simply because it makes me think more often about what I am spending.

    actually you are supposed to issue a 1099-MISC to reflect the value of the exchange



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