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  1. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    After all, there IS that whole "Thou shalt not kill" thing... How do you square THAT in your head? Or do you just kind of SKIP that commandment?
    Many believe that human life is to be protected and that human life has value. That all people are created in the image of God. We do not have the right to kill millions of babies. You can't compare "just reasons" for war and capital punishment with abortion.



  2. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    Many believe that human life is to be protected and that human life has value. That all people are created in the image of God. We do not have the right to kill millions of babies. You can't compare "just reasons" for war and capital punishment with abortion.
    Well if it makes you feel any better... "We" do not kill millions of babies. One woman makes the decision to kill one baby. Is that better?



  3. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
    Well if it makes you feel any better... "We" do not kill millions of babies. One woman makes the decision to kill one baby. Is that better?


    Not particularly, when you consider 55 million abortions and rising....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    Not particularly, when you consider 55 million abortions and rising....
    Except they are zygotes then fetuses, not babies. Only SOME religions define them as babies. We're a democracy, not a theocracy, remember?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #745
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    I will never understand this argument.
    Don't agree with the use of X, Y or Z drug for whatever reason... don't use it.
    Don't believe in abortion? Don't have one.

    But if you don't believe in birth control or abortion you danged well better believe in WIC and CHP and other social welfare programs geared to helping care for those kids you insist must be born.
    And your belief most certainly should have nothing to do with my access to health care of all kinds that I may or may not avail myself of.

    I noted that amongst the philanthropic actions listed at Hobby Lobby's website... paying a living wage to it's workers [that say a single mother could raise a child on] and donations to Foster care, or other programs for children in need of homes or other help aren't listed.
    Talking but not walking... how nice for them


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #746
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    anyone know where this stands right now? Are they in compliance, are the fees pending court or are they accruing the fines?



  7. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Except they are zygotes then fetuses, not babies. Only SOME religions define them as babies. We're a democracy, not a theocracy, remember?
    Up until the invention of the microscope it was widely believed that there were teeny tiny babies in semen. The woman was only the vessel (sound familiar?) The actual act of conception...meeting of sperm and ovum...was not observed until about 1840 AD
    Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #748
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    well...
    the fallacy in his line of thinking is preventing conception= abortion...or rather the nesting of the egg....


    On the other hand, much of the stuff the store peddles is made in China....strict 1 child policy, late term abortion not uncommon, baby girls are often treated like refuse....

    I wonder if that has crossed his mind...what his money finances there....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    Not particularly, when you consider 55 million abortions and rising....
    FWIW countries with:
    REALISTIC sex ed....not abstinance
    Easy access to contraception
    Generous support for parents with new babies
    universal health care

    have MUCH lower rates of abortion

    Want to decrease the numbers of abortion? decrease the numbers of accidental unwanted UNAFFORDABLE pregnancies
    Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  10. #750
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    Excellent point. Cant support made in America but........

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    well...
    the fallacy in his line of thinking is preventing conception= abortion...or rather the nesting of the egg....


    On the other hand, much of the stuff the store peddles is made in China....strict 1 child policy, late term abortion not uncommon, baby girls are often treated like refuse....

    I wonder if that has crossed his mind...what his money finances there....



  11. #751
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    Resurrecting this one because I saw something about them the other day and it sparked a thought.

    The family's whole premise is that they are opposed to birth control for religious reasons, yes? And, yet...how many kids do David Green and his wife have? Obviously, I don't know a whole lot about these people's personal lives, but if they have been married for years and only have one kid, they most likely are NOT opposed to birth control. "Birth control" applies to waaaaaaaaay more things than the pill. So, unless, they have fertility issues, their whole arguement is nill.

    Thoughts?



  12. #752
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    My thought is 'oh, so they only have one child... and obviously didn't open their home to adopted children or Foster kids'.
    How nice for them.



  13. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzle View Post

    The family's whole premise is that they are opposed to birth control for religious reasons, yes?
    not precisely. They are opposed to a birth control they consider (mistakenly) to be an abortifactant. They are incorrect, but it's not birth control they oppose, it's abortions.



  14. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by threedogpack View Post
    not precisely. They are opposed to a birth control they consider (mistakenly) to be an abortifactant. They are incorrect, but it's not birth control they oppose, it's abortions.
    So, why doesn't one of their lawyers or something point this out to them??? As you said, the birth control pill does not cause abortions.

    Are they *really* that clueless?



  15. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzle View Post
    So, why doesn't one of their lawyers or something point this out to them??? As you said, the birth control pill does not cause abortions.

    Are they *really* that clueless?
    Yes, they are. It appears that an elected official in Alabama believes a fetus the largest organ in the body. Really. She said that. Honestly. She really did. They do teach biology in Alabama, right? Maybe she missed that class.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #756
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    The problem is, was, and always will be anxiety over female sexuality which is considered dangerous unless contained within socially sanctioned heterosexual marriage/coupling. That's what's behind the "religious objection" to birth control.



  17. #757
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    duplicate post



  18. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzle View Post
    So, why doesn't one of their lawyers or something point this out to them??? As you said, the birth control pill does not cause abortions.

    Are they *really* that clueless?
    It's not cluelessness, it deliberate disbelief. They do no believe science.

    Quote from David Green press statement.

    "But now our faith is being challenged by the federal government. The Health and Human Services “preventative services” mandate forces businesses to provide the “morning-after” and the “week-after” pills in our health insurance plans. These abortion-causing drugs go against our faith, and our family is now being forced to choose between following the laws of the land that we love or maintaining the religious beliefs that have made our business successful and have supported our family and thousands of our employees and their families. We simply cannot abandon our religious beliefs to comply with this mandate"

    http://www.becketfund.org/davidgreenpressstatement/



  19. #759
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    January 29, 2013: Washington (CNN) - By Friday, Hobby Lobby would have racked up $14.3 million in fines from the Internal Revenue Service for bucking Obamacare. But in keeping with the great American tax tradition, they may have found a loophole.
    The company is facing $1.3 million a day in fines for each day it chooses not to comply with a piece of the Affordable Care Act that was set to trigger for them on January 1. The craft store chain announced in December that, because of religious objections, they would face the fines for not providing certain types of birth control through their company health insurance.
    The penalty was set to go into effect on the day the company’s new health care plan went into effect for the year.
    Peter M. Dobelbower, general counsel for Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. said in a statement released through the Becket Fund that, “Hobby Lobby discovered a way to shift the plan year for its employee health insurance, thus postponing the effective date of the mandate for several months.”
    The statement continued that “Hobby Lobby does not provide coverage for abortion-inducing drugs in its health care plan. Hobby Lobby will continue to vigorously defend its religious liberty and oppose the mandate and any penalties.”
    Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson



  20. #760
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    So it sounds like all they refuse to provide coverage for is things like Plan B, not regular birth control pills.


    2 members found this post helpful.

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