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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 2, 2005
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    303

    Default TB - Race bred and race trained, but never ran??

    Does anybody have experience with TBs who were race trained but never had any starts? I am looking at a lovely guy who was training at Pimlico but was sold "off the track" at age 4 with no starts. I know lots of arguments about lightly raced versus war horse types, as well as true homebreds who never saw a race track. Haven't run across many that were race bred and trained but never ran unless they were injured. Don't think this guy has had any injuries.

    Just thought I would ask if that's a red flag?

    My uneducated eye says the pedigree screams race horse!

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/lets+go+ravens
    Fox Wood Farm



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    12,977

    Default

    I've known a few. It is expensive to train and race a horse. If they show no talent in training, it isn't all that crazy to sell or give away before racing. Especially if they have connections to move them into the show world.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,619

    Default

    Bought a three year old like this once. Broke, race trained and was pathetically slow. Luckily his small time breeder/owner didn't want to break a nice horse just because he was slow.

    Bless his heart he was 17+ hands and had no idea where any of his body parts were. Fortunately, all he needed was to be turned out for a year or so to grow up some more. He turned in to a fabulous, winning lower level horse, but never totally out grew some of his awkwardness and was not a candidate for Preliminary or higher. They don't all have to have UL potential to be great horses!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2004
    Location
    ocala,florida....the place to be!
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    i sell a lot of them, jut sold a 2 1/2 yr.old geld this week. never raced, was broke and trained, 16.3 and just too damn big and slow, happens all the time. have a lovely one in my barn i bought, raced once. gonna be a hell of a show horse.
    www.camaloufarms.com

    ride it like you stole it! "ralph hill"



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2004
    Location
    ocala,florida....the place to be!
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    adding- love the ap indy on top along with the buckpasser way back, also love the broad brush/ ack ack on the bottom, danzig's can be tough and really don't like to see the storm cat anywhere, but that's just me,
    www.camaloufarms.com

    ride it like you stole it! "ralph hill"



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    5,549

    Default

    I had one, this guy:

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/kunga+john

    Tattooed - trained at the track, never raced. Was too big and gangly - tall and immature.

    He made a great riding horse, evented to prelim, and did jumpers as well. He stayed pretty sound (some knee arthritis) until a freak accident took him at 14 years old.
    APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
    Posts
    13,243

    Default

    Vernon trained but never raced. He wasn't all that different from OTTBs I've had that DID race. He came off the track as a 3 year old. I think his owner just ran out of money and he never made it to race day (story goes that the trainer who sent him to his hunter trainer SO picked him up before he got put on the meat truck...don't know how true that really is, but it's a good story!).



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 22, 2001
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa.
    Posts
    5,493

    Default

    I have sat on one of the more famous ones...

    See pic here as a 2 yr old: http://s103.beta.photobucket.com/use...ml?sort=3&o=14

    I'm on the left. That's Man in Havana. He's Barbaro's half brother from the year after Barbaro.

    Here he is now with his new owner Joy Slater:

    http://www.alcookphoto.com/p91012742...83a5#h2e5b83a5

    There are better pics out there, I just couldn't find them now. She regularly does the jumpers with "Cuban" and he is living the life of Riley.


    Havana was never going to be the next Barbaro and he wasn't well conformed to be a stud colt. So they cut him, tried im a bit more and then stopped. He never ran, and I applaud the Jackson's forever for both cutting him and not running him.

    Emily
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    4,151

    Default

    If he's half as nice my 3yr old who was broke and trained never ran and just sold to ULR w/ same sire run don't walk to see him...we want pictures...



  10. #10
    Join Date
    May. 2, 2005
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by judybigredpony View Post
    If he's half as nice my 3yr old who was broke and trained never ran and just sold to ULR w/ same sire run don't walk to see him...we want pictures...
    Hah! He is for sale under a totally different name which I omit now on purpose! Don't want to start any bidding wars! LOL! I've had to go out of town to tend to my executor duties but I hope to go try him out this weekend. And, no, I'm not saying where he is either !!!!

    If he ends up with me? I promise lots of pictures!
    Fox Wood Farm



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 22, 2001
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa.
    Posts
    5,493

    Default

    My young horse is by the same sire who is local up here.

    And he has a huge fan club and jump!

    Buy it!! But I would do it fast!!

    Emily
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2006
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Got two of them. They didn't race for very different reasons.

    One was trained for 6 months and ready for his first race, but when they went to tattoo him, he didn't match his papers. He has a small snip that was missed in the foal fuzz. Since he is a September foal and didn't look fast, they opted to sell him rather than go to the expense of trying to change his papers.

    Second, went through Keanland yearling sales for pretty good money. But had 'swollen ankles' and they gave up on him spring of his 3 year old year. No real problems with those ankles now other than the young lout had a tendency to kick/step on the right one. He seems to be growing out of this habit (... knock very hard on wood).



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 23, 2006
    Posts
    2,398

    Default

    I know one who couldn't get a gate card. Huge, sensitive, not the bravest or brightest guy ever, and I think they probably made a fight of it that everybody lost. Nice horse. Perfectly sound and a lovely mover.
    Shut up! You look fine! --Judybigredpony
    Ms. Brazil



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 15, 2012
    Location
    Taft, TN
    Posts
    289

    Default

    I got one through Second Stride that was trained and never ran- really cool horse, even as a 3yo could put anyone on him- kids, my mom, my brother's friend who had never ridden before, whatever. Very cute, honest, willing, and a pretty good mover.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    4,151

    Default

    His name breeder etc was easy to get just look under mares name for Prodgeny...you ..GO...get your Raven.......and keep us posted!!!!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8fulrider View Post
    I know one who couldn't get a gate card. Huge, sensitive, not the bravest or brightest guy ever, and I think they probably made a fight of it that everybody lost. Nice horse. Perfectly sound and a lovely mover.
    My old show hunter came "off the track" with no starts and no tattoo. I'm guessing his story was something along these lines. Bless his heart, he was dumber than a sack of bricks and afraid of his own shadow. Terrible feet. He hated any small space - wash rack, trailer, stalls. I can only imagine his reaction to the start gate.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2005
    Posts
    364

    Default

    I am always careful about evaluating soundness in these horses. Sometimes it is true that they are perfectly sound but not fast, or that economic issues prevented further racing/training. But quite often the reason they are not fast is because they have a physical/soundness issue. BUT it is important to know that this does not mean that the owner/trainer are lying about it. Very often they simply don't KNOW that the horse has a problem because the horse is not obviously limping, no head nod, and is capable of walk/trot/canter/gallop in training. This is very common. Just looked at two last week that I am sure the connections really believed were sound - they are folks I know who would be unlikely to misrepresent a horse to me. One horse had a very sore SI and the other had a lot of effusion in both stifles and flexed very positive, and my guess is that he had bilateral OCD. A good prepurchase exam would have identified these problems, but a prospective buyer that just watched the horses walk and trot in hand, or even gallop on the track, likely would not have noticed any problem unless they were very experienced at evaluating these horses.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2006
    Location
    On the back of a horse somewhere in KY
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Another vote for exercising caution. With 2 and early 3 y/is I'm a bit less suspicious but at 4, someone has spent a lot of money just to keep him fed and healthy for the last four years. They would be looking to recoup those expenses if at all possible? Is he tattooed? I would be even more wary if so because that indicates that he was fairly close to and apparently capable of running. Vet extensively.
    "Gallop as if you were to die tomorrow, jump as if you were to live forever."



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2003
    Location
    WA, Land of the damp Thongpend
    Posts
    2,451

    Default

    I've had two. No tat, never raced. One bucked like a bronc, no way he was going to win anything bucking down the track. He did like to jump. Bought him as a 3 year old. The person who owned him before me bought him as a two year old to be a show horse. He finished his career as a Regular Working Hunter - when the jumps were 4' - 4'6". My trainer would do him in the jumpers once in awhile to sharpen him up and let him have some fun. He never made the time allowed because he really was a hunter.

    I have a now 8 year old who I bought at 2 and a half. Never raced. He sold at Keeneland Yearling sale, and his dam is a half sister to Unbridled. He is well bred for racing and built like a speed horse. He isn't very go-ey. He moves great jumps very well and was brought out here from Kentucky to pinhook in the Washington TB sales. He didn't get sold at either sale, he wasn't very big. It wasn't long after that he was sold to the person I bought him from.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2004
    Location
    Camden, De
    Posts
    3,630

    Default

    We have many donated to us and the most common reason of the horses that I have personally handled the donations for has been a very minor tendon strain. To the naked eye you really couldn't see anything but during their training the vets recommended stopping them. If you keep going you likely will have a horse who bows so good connections will stop on the horses. I see most of theses horses being donated as 2yrs and they are absolutely lovely. We give them the rest they need and they go on to fantastic careers. There is no profile to the tendon so I suppose w/o an ultrasound you may never know. CANTER of course discloses why the horse was donated but private resellers may not even know it's there.

    Some are perfectly sound just slow and it's apparent early on so they don't waste the time and money to go further.

    A few were donated because they were a bit rank to train so they didn't make it to the races but after let down they were actually quite easy to restart with no behavior problems. Some horses don't like the track



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