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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I watch this same drama over and over on here.

    How many pro-slaughter people posting actually have a stake in horse slaughter? How does horse slaughter affect YOU? Are you breeders, brokers, what?

    I actually have a reason to be anti- as it is- horse slaughter especially in this economy. It affects me personally.

    Does it even matter one iota either way to those crying for it?
    How does horse slaughter affect you personally? Somebody twisting your arm to sell your horses?

    As far as I know non of us evil pro slaughter people have a stake in it being legal open and available.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I watch this same drama over and over on here.

    How many pro-slaughter people posting actually have a stake in horse slaughter? How does horse slaughter affect YOU? Are you breeders, brokers, what?

    I actually have a reason to be anti- as it is- horse slaughter especially in this economy. It affects me personally.

    Does it even matter one iota either way to those crying for it?
    I think maybe you have this backwards?
    Who are the ones with a stake in this?
    I would say, animal rights groups, as their mere existence and riches depends on followers, as many as they can convince using animals is the root of all human evil.

    Most of those against banning horse slaughter are professionals and sensible people, pragmatic, that know that, once a horse is dead, why not use that a horse can give us one more time?

    In a way, it really is wasteful to throw away all that, from that percentage of suitable horses for that end.



  3. #203
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    If you own a horse, you have a stake in it, because they are going to make it a requirement to have passports next yr, and vet costs and costs for meds like wormers and Bute will go way up because you will have to have a vet administer it.

    If we were to legalize it here, then the cost to taxpayers, even those that DON'T own horses is estimated to be 5 million a yr to cover inspectors at horse SH's. Then there is the added to to taxpayers to upgrade sewer/water systems, and pay the court costs associated with all of the cases trying to recover environmental violation fees. Google "Paula Bacon, Mayor " to find out how having Dallas Crowne in her city almost bankrupted them.

    Again..we're talking approx 2.5 horses per county, per year. 900,000 horses die each yr and we dispose of them, yet people are actually trying to claim it's going to hurt our environment to allow that 1% a humane death or rehoming. And they ignore the SH environmental violations. Surely breeders could reduce what they breed by 1% and it becomes a nonissue.



  4. #204
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    I have watched the videos of the TG cattle processing.
    It's amazing - the cows have no idea what's about to happen.
    I have absolutely no problem with that.
    I have a problem with some bozo kicking a downed animal and kicking and zapping the poor animal.
    I have a problem with foreign companies that set things up so they have absolutely no interest or no real reason to obey any law we may have. Be it it being humane to the animals or being irresponsible about the detritus left in the wake of the processing. There is no hook - they can just pack up and leave - leaving a huge mess in their wake.
    I personally believe that as humans we have made a mess of things - a big HUGE mess. Look at our planet - how many species of animal have we made extinct?? Really??
    Sometimes I think the damn whales are smarter than we are.
    I am for animal welfare.
    So what are we supposed to do? Give up? Straw man my behind. Be like Chicken Little???


    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You are the ones bringing abuse to play, when we are saying abuse is a straw man in this.
    Abuse is the card animal rights extremists bring to the table, because that incenses anyone, as it should.

    The abuse card is a bad excuse to ban slaughter, that is what we are saying.
    Slaughter can and did and is managed properly in many places and times.
    That little fact doesn't show in the animal rights videos, of course, because that doesn't win any incensed followers.
    See the TG video link I added on a beef slaughter plant some pages ago.
    Then compare it with animal rights videos of slaughter plants.



  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Most of those against banning horse slaughter are professionals and sensible people, pragmatic, that know that, once a horse is dead, why not use that a horse can give us one more time?

    :
    Do you REALLY have no idea how condescending that statement is?

    And I would venture to guess that most people that are for a slaughter ban, couldn't care less what you do with a dead horse. Stuff it, eat it, put it in your living rm, I don't care. It's how they become dead, that I have an issue with.
    Feel free to shoot your horse, and eat it yourself. Donate it to a big cat sanctuary or hunt, or vet school. Then you can have your one last use that you seem to be so worried about. But don't try to gloss over how filled with Humane handling violations the commercial Horse Slaughter process is, starting with the auctions, through transport, feedlots, and SH, to the actual kill.



  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Do you REALLY have no idea how condescending that statement is?

    And I would venture to guess that most people that are for a slaughter ban, couldn't care less what you do with a dead horse. Stuff it, eat it, put it in your living rm, I don't care. It's how they become dead, that I have an issue with.
    Feel free to shoot your horse, and eat it yourself. Donate it to a big cat sanctuary or hunt, or vet school. Then you can have your one last use that you seem to be so worried about. But don't try to gloss over how filled with Humane handling violations the commercial Horse Slaughter process is, starting with the auctions, through transport, feedlots, and SH, to the actual kill.
    And I will repeat, do you know how senseless it seems to hear some repeat animal rights propaganda about abuses and mismanagement and use that to excuse their drives to ban slaughter?

    Ever heard of making things and processes we can use better and better?
    You contradict yourself when you say you don't care if horses are used after death, but then say ban slaughter, because so and so mismanaged/abused here or there, see here is the proof.

    Already explained, you want to make things right, work on that.
    You want to ban, don't lie to yourself saying no, that is not what I want and then follow those that want to ban.



  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    If you own a horse, you have a stake in it, because they are going to make it a requirement to have passports next yr, and vet costs and costs for meds like wormers and Bute will go way up because you will have to have a vet administer it.
    I was just about to address this as well.

    I can see all pro slaughter folks screaming about their "rights" when some legislator introduces a bill requiring every horse to have a passport.

    And yeah, no more buteing or deworming on your own. Pay the vet instead.

    All because "we gotta keep slaughter as an option".

    You all are going to be paying much more for that passport than what you will ever recover by "re-using" your horse.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I have watched the videos of the TG cattle processing.
    It's amazing - the cows have no idea what's about to happen.
    I have absolutely no problem with that.
    I have a problem with some bozo kicking a downed animal and kicking and zapping the poor animal.
    I have a problem with foreign companies that set things up so they have absolutely no interest or no real reason to obey any law we may have. Be it it being humane to the animals or being irresponsible about the detritus left in the wake of the processing. There is no hook - they can just pack up and leave - leaving a huge mess in their wake.
    I personally believe that as humans we have made a mess of things - a big HUGE mess. Look at our planet - how many species of animal have we made extinct?? Really??
    Sometimes I think the damn whales are smarter than we are.
    I am for animal welfare.
    So what are we supposed to do? Give up? Straw man my behind. Be like Chicken Little???
    So what, I have seen horses slaughtered and they also didn't have any idea of what was happening, they just dropped on the spot.

    You just don't see that in videos, because that is not what animal rights agendas need you to see.
    They only want the rare ones that struggled in the videos, with the many repeats of the same scene and the proper music to go along with it.
    You have not really seen days and days of slaughter.
    You are basing what you say on animal rights stories and videos of some times, at times questionable management, not real every day to day operations when all goes well.

    Just think, if slaughter was really all the time as animal rights videos show, nothing would get done, carcasses would be condemned, where would be the profit to even keep a plant open, with Keystone operators as those animal rights videos show?

    Well, that is because that was the rare exception, taken out of context for agendas, not the daily reality.

    Anyway, the USA plants have been closed several years now, so that is not what you can say is happening now.

    The canadian plants, that was also an aberration, an union dispute and other going on there, also not regular, proper operations, that everyone agrees.

    THAT is what those that keep bringing that old stuff again and again want the ones reading here to see, for shock value and forget to think for themselves and say, hey, something here is not up to par and it is more than the abuse and broken regulations and mismanagement, it is the agenda that all that is used to promote.



  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Yes..the Canadian tapes were examined forensically and paid by CIFA to do so. They were proven to be unedited.
    Please provide a link to the proof as it is impossible under Canadian Labour Laws.

    A Tape...for that duration, unedited, even if it survived the high pressure high volume and high temperature cleansing solution would have clearly shown that...

    Anyone can say CIFA had it forensically examined.

    Proof is all I require



  10. #210
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    I would also like to again state...when the PETA group were INVITED to watch on the Wednesday I was there....they had a film crew..when they tossed the firecrackers into the chutes thus severly injuring three of the horses and they initially claimed the noise was from an employee scaring the horses into the chute. It was all caught on the security camera and the three women and their video "guy" were removed and banned from the property. The court injunction found for the plant and they were forced to remove the video from the internet. They still use segments edited and re-edited when they are "doing their fund raising magic"



  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post

    Most of those against banning horse slaughter are professionals and sensible people, pragmatic, that know that, once a horse is dead, why not use that a horse can give us one more time?
    I don't think anyone is arguing about what happens to a horse once it is dead. It is the getting it to die part that is the problem.



  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe you ought to read for context?
    That is not an expose, that is an animal rights hatchet job opinion piece, with not one iota of truth or facts behind it.

    One reason the AQHA and 200+ other horse associations and industry affiliates was against the slaughter ban bill is because it was setting precedents that the HSUS was in charge.

    As long as those of us that understand the world as it is and our use of animals as the renewable, natural resource they are, you will find those that have them and the associations formed by them to try to protect the right to own and use animals from those that want to eliminate those rights on some wrongheaded idea of how this world works.

    Really, the ones that should be ashamed here are those that further animal rights agendas as that article is.

    Trying to make the AQHA an evil empire falls flat on the reality of who they are and what they do.
    That article is like asking your new coworker you don't even know, in an office full of people, how many times a day he beats his wife.

    All that about registrations and how the AQHA operates to make money etc. is pure speculation and not at all true.
    There are conventions where topics like embryo transfer and others are voted on.
    Right now there is a lawsuit against the AQHA because they voted against registering clones.
    That article is completely clueless how the AQHA operates, sorry.
    Only those that don't know either could believe all that pure nonsense.

    Assuming that the AQHA is and does what that article does, without any proof of any of that at all, well, knowing where that is coming from, you should have understood that is just more animal rights propaganda.
    Bluey, this is after all Jerry Finch, he thrives on this kind of drama and just like John Holland, is not averse to believing in any kind of nonsense to further his misunderstood notions about the crisis. It's the economy stupid, come on out here all of you do gooders and pick up any number of starving horses languishing in back yards because there is no place for them to go. John Holland was the yo yo who would not and could not stand up to my questioning of his very unreliable statistics in his non stop arguments towards the Unwanted Horse Coalition. None of them on either side is willing to think through the consequences nor the existence of a depression in the country. The animal rights folks after all, are not big on rational discourse.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I have watched the videos of the TG cattle processing.
    It's amazing - the cows have no idea what's about to happen.
    I have absolutely no problem with that.
    I have a problem with some bozo kicking a downed animal and kicking and zapping the poor animal.
    I have a problem with foreign companies that set things up so they have absolutely no interest or no real reason to obey any law we may have. Be it it being humane to the animals or being irresponsible about the detritus left in the wake of the processing. There is no hook - they can just pack up and leave - leaving a huge mess in their wake.
    I personally believe that as humans we have made a mess of things - a big HUGE mess. Look at our planet - how many species of animal have we made extinct?? Really??
    Sometimes I think the damn whales are smarter than we are.
    I am for animal welfare.
    So what are we supposed to do? Give up? Straw man my behind. Be like Chicken Little???
    No, do not give up, pass legislation to stop the God-d@!mn speculative banks from getting any more bailouts through HR 1489, Marcie Kaptur's "Return to Prudent Banking Act" aka the reinstatement of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act", then we need a nationally sovereign credit creation institution, aka a US National Bank, utter credit for revival of the agro-industrial base of this country, tax the shiite out of foreign countries owning of US based plants. It is not easy but we did not get to this horrendous mess overnight. Look at the people and horses and other animals of all stripes drowning in a flood in Missisissipp, part of New Orleans and poor Haiti that did not have that new gorgeous federal levee, it is the biggest in the world! This is what we need to defend the country, horses and all. It is not a separate solution, it all needs to be done together, and we need to remove Obama now, it can not be the Democratic nominee unless you want a world war on top of a depression exacerbated by this Nero like failed personality in the White House. It is not a horse problem, it is a national nee world problem. We can do this, as Ben Franklin said, "hang together, or we will all hang seperately".
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    No, do not give up, pass legislation to stop the God-d@!mn speculative banks from getting any more bailouts through HR 1489, Marcie Kaptur's "Return to Prudent Banking Act" aka the reinstatement of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act", then we need a nationally sovereign credit creation institution, aka a US National Bank, utter credit for revival of the agro-industrial base of this country, tax the shiite out of foreign countries owning of US based plants. It is not easy but we did not get to this horrendous mess overnight. Look at the people and horses and other animals of all stripes drowning in a flood in Missisissipp, part of New Orleans and poor Haiti that did not have that new gorgeous federal levee, it is the biggest in the world! This is what we need to defend the country, horses and all. It is not a separate solution, it all needs to be done together, and we need to remove Obama now, it can not be the Democratic nominee unless you want a world war on top of a depression exacerbated by this Nero like failed personality in the White House. It is not a horse problem, it is a national nee world problem. We can do this, as Ben Franklin said, "hang together, or we will all hang seperately".
    Yup, full moon - Actually, blue moon..

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    No, do not give up, pass legislation to stop the God-d@!mn speculative banks from getting any more bailouts through HR 1489, Marcie Kaptur's "Return to Prudent Banking Act" aka the reinstatement of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act", then we need a nationally sovereign credit creation institution, aka a US National Bank, utter credit for revival of the agro-industrial base of this country, tax the shiite out of foreign countries owning of US based plants. It is not easy but we did not get to this horrendous mess overnight. Look at the people and horses and other animals of all stripes drowning in a flood in Missisissipp, part of New Orleans and poor Haiti that did not have that new gorgeous federal levee, it is the biggest in the world! This is what we need to defend the country, horses and all. It is not a separate solution, it all needs to be done together, and we need to remove Obama now, it can not be the Democratic nominee unless you want a world war on top of a depression exacerbated by this Nero like failed personality in the White House. It is not a horse problem, it is a national nee world problem. We can do this, as Ben Franklin said, "hang together, or we will all hang seperately".
    Calamber, you are a nut.

    Bluey, I might be able to hear what you are shouting if you didn't keep bringing up the AR groups, and insinuating that is what is feeding all the anti slaughter people. Actually, it insults me, since I have not come to my position based on any video's, AR papers, etc.
    It came from my own common sense, and coming from a hunting family.

    And whoever, mentioned Albion's seed, thank you. I looked it up, and will check my libary or may even buy it. Having relocated, I find our cultural differences amazing. I love history and all that, so this looks like a good read.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  16. #216
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    Many of us support the fine work the local H.S. groups do with pets. They have an overwhelming job and little to no support from the national groups with the same H.S. names. We all feel sorry when the local HS has to euthanize hundreds of dogs and cats per year. BUT did you know THEY ARE GASSED. Yup...the cat, kitten, dog, puppy has to be smoothered by the gas until it dies AND it can take anywhere from 3-8 minutes depending on the number of animals in the chamber.

    No one here is overwhelmed and screaming foul over that....but a horse dying instantaneously (in most cases) is causing an uproar.

    More of you should go to your local H.S. and watch...the gas burns, blinds and chokes the animal to death. That is why the human death chambers were deemed sadistic and cruel and the lethal injection was introduced. It was stated that we slaughtered animals with more compassion than the gas chamber.



  17. #217
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    My local SPCA uses lethal injection and has for years(as in40+ years).

    I do know of places, mostly in the south, that do use gas, and I find that equelly disturbing to horse slaughter.
    this is an equine board, I am sure if you go to dog boards, you will find an uproar.

    The point is no animal should suffer if we can avoid it.

    Death is certain, for livestock and animals, unfortunately, and fortunately they can be euthanized. Those unfortunate die inhumanely, and that just isn't necessary. Shame on us humans. We can do better, except greed gets in the way.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    I was just about to address this as well.

    I can see all pro slaughter folks screaming about their "rights" when some legislator introduces a bill requiring every horse to have a passport.

    And yeah, no more buteing or deworming on your own. Pay the vet instead.

    All because "we gotta keep slaughter as an option".

    You all are going to be paying much more for that passport than what you will ever recover by "re-using" your horse.
    The only horses that will be required to have a passport are those specifically that are ENTERING THE HUMAN FOOD CHAIN. In practical terms, that means the only horses that will apply to probably belong to Bluey and Alagirl.



  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehorses View Post
    Calamber, you are a nut.

    Bluey, I might be able to hear what you are shouting if you didn't keep bringing up the AR groups, and insinuating that is what is feeding all the anti slaughter people. Actually, it insults me, since I have not come to my position based on any video's, AR papers, etc.
    It came from my own common sense, and coming from a hunting family.

    And whoever, mentioned Albion's seed, thank you. I looked it up, and will check my libary or may even buy it. Having relocated, I find our cultural differences amazing. I love history and all that, so this looks like a good read.
    I'm just finishing reading ALBION'S SEED now, and can tell you my mind is thoroughly blown. This was entirely worth the time to read, any time I'm sitting down, a book of some 900 pages. I feel as though I understand our country for the very first time--and with the electioneering in full swing, the timing could not possibly be better. Yes, we all have some different definitions of "liberty" all right . . .



  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    The only horses that will be required to have a passport are those specifically that are ENTERING THE HUMAN FOOD CHAIN. In practical terms, that means the only horses that will apply to probably belong to Bluey and Alagirl.

    Running out of arguments already?

    pathetic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



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