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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,928

    Default Flexible

    So what do we if we have a star in our midst...ignore that he is a stallion we could use to produce international jumpers and eventers. We'd look kind of silly if we did. PatO
    Flexible daughter
    http://edwarddoyle.com/en/catalogue/horses/cusions
    Flexible son
    http://edwarddoyle.com/en/catalogue/horses/bill-vision
    Flexible half brother
    http://edwarddoyle.com/en/catalogue/stallions/samgemgee
    this weekend competitng for Ireland
    Flexible's sister
    http://edwarddoyle.com/en/catalogue/archives/flexing
    Son of Flexing
    http://edwarddoyle.com/en/catalogue/stallions/dilligaf
    The dam of Flexible had 3 foals. Flexible(Flex-A-Bill), Samgemgee, Flexing.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    14,456

    Default

    but dontcha know he's not a continental WB.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2000
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    1,723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by columbus View Post
    So what do we if we have a star in our midst...ignore that he is a stallion we could use to produce international jumpers and eventers. We'd look kind of silly if we did. PatO
    It's discouraging to admit, but we've done it too many times before so we're well practiced.

    In the case of Flexible though, personally, I'm out of my comfort zone as a breeder. I know just enough about the Irish horses to be dangerous. Better and more information on the website would be really helpful. For instance:

    Is his pedigree really unknown on the bottom side? Unless I'm missing it, his website doesn't show a pedigree. Heck, it doesn't even mention he's by Cruising.

    What are the registration options for his offspring?

    What types of mares does Flexible cross best with and is there specific blood he nicks well with?

    And just in general, how are Irish bloodlines best integrated with Warmblood mares?

    JMHO



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by baywithchrome2 View Post
    It's discouraging to admit, but we've done it too many times before so we're well practiced.

    In the case of Flexible though, personally, I'm out of my comfort zone as a breeder. I know just enough about the Irish horses to be dangerous. Better and more information on the website would be really helpful. For instance:

    Is his pedigree really unknown on the bottom side? Unless I'm missing it, his website doesn't show a pedigree. Heck, it doesn't even mention he's by Cruising.

    What are the registration options for his offspring?

    What types of mares does Flexible cross best with and is there specific blood he nicks well with?

    And just in general, how are Irish bloodlines best integrated with Warmblood mares?

    JMHO
    Part of the problem with Irish pedigrees comes from the civil unrest in the 20th century. Records were not kept or lost, or blown up
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2011
    Location
    Carolinas/East Coast
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by baywithchrome2 View Post
    It's discouraging to admit, but we've done it too many times before so we're well practiced.

    In the case of Flexible though, personally, I'm out of my comfort zone as a breeder. I know just enough about the Irish horses to be dangerous. Better and more information on the website would be really helpful. For instance:

    Is his pedigree really unknown on the bottom side? Unless I'm missing it, his website doesn't show a pedigree. Heck, it doesn't even mention he's by Cruising.

    What are the registration options for his offspring?

    What types of mares does Flexible cross best with and is there specific blood he nicks well with?

    And just in general, how are Irish bloodlines best integrated with Warmblood mares?

    JMHO
    I could be very well be wrong, but I think he is approved HSI? Therefore his offspring would be registrable with the Irish Horse Register. Help me out here if I am off.

    "Bred by Ireland's Edward and Catherine Doyle, Flexible is an approved stallion in the Irish Sport Horse studbook..."
    http://www.horsesportireland.ie/show...ers.12016.html

    I'd like to use him on a tall, solid, quiet minded, but athletic RID mare. As far as specific bloodlines that he crosses well with, time will tell. Of course I have my personal opinions
    I agree his website could use a bit of a sprucing up, but there are a lot of Irish breeders that need a kick in the booty when it comes to their websites and marketing (guilty of that myself).

    Pedigree-
    http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10463146

    On another note there are several RID stallions out there being crossed with Holsteiner and Dutch mares with great results. The real "problem" is that they are not in the pros hands.
    Disclaimer: I don't know everything, but I'm sticking to what I know and we'll go from there.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
    Posts
    20,387

    Default

    The Irish have always been bad about tracking mares. It really has nothing to do with the historical situation. They still do it.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,928

    Default

    I was looking at Cruising on the Sporthorse-Data-base as I was curious about the same thing and I wanted to see what the Cruising broodmares were being used with. So try there first.
    This is the latest sale in Ireland and at the end is a list of stallions so you can have an idea what stallions they have available to them in Ireland. It is still predominantly live cover there.
    http://www.irishhorse.com/Catalogues/SH/P01-124.pdf
    PatO



  8. #8
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    Jun. 16, 2007
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    Default

    Obviously there is the most success with Cloverhill who is the dam side equivalent to Cruising...seems to cross well with everything... King of Diamonds and Cruising and Master Imp. Master Imp crossed well with the KODs and CH but there isnt as much success with Cruising mares. There are more warmbloods in Ireland now but the initial success with the Irish mare base is Cavalier Royale. I am inclined to look at the French mare base but it is just a feeling, I am looking into this too. I am kind of surprised to see that Crusing does well with 1/4 and 1/2 Draught mares suggesting that perhaps the instinct to add refinement is not the way to go. Flexible is successful as he is...his siblings are more refined than he and still successful but perhaps being comfortable with his type and not breeding to refine might be for him what it was for Cruising.

    When ever looking at Irish breeding you need to be aware of trends...the Irish breeders sent everything to KODs then CH then Cavalier Royale them Cruising so now the success full cross is from KODs mares and CH mares and CR mares and the next dominant mares will be from Cruising. PatO



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2009
    Posts
    345

    Default Flexible and Cruising

    The Cruising-Clover Hill cross has produced many international jumpers. It is effectively line breeding Tara that helps make it a potent jumper cross. I have a Cruising-Coille Mor Hill (Clover Hill)-Chair Lift daughter that we plan to breed to Indoctro and Riverman (Holst) in the future. Many of the Holsteiner lines (particularly Corde blood in sires Cavalier Royale and Limerick) have crossed well on ID blood to produce top jumpers and eventers.

    We just had our Flexible foal, a filly, out of a Mezcalero (Voltaire-Ramiro-Marco Polo) mare who is TB on the bottom. The TB blood includes multiple crosses to Nasrullah (including one cross through Secretariat) and some Irish TB through the Irish race mare Acushla. Cruising's dam Mullacrew was by Nordlys by Nasrullah. Nordlys also sired the Munich Olympic (1972) Individual Gold Medalist in Show Jumping, The Ambassador (Italy). Marco Polo's lineage produced arguably Britain's best show jumper of all time, Milton. Secretariat had several Grand Prix show jumper offspring in the late 1980s and early 1990s including Quantum Leap. The Mez mare is over 16.3 H, has a sensible disposition, and has a wonderful canter/gallop. The filly is tall, has good bone, shows intelligence and precocity, and is a gumby doll.

    We have another breeding to Flexible that we plan to use with our Galoubet A mare inspired by the Cruising-Galoubet product Mic Mac Du Tillard who will likely represent Sweden in London this summer. The Galoubet mare is 17.1 H and is a sweet and sensible type. She also moves quite well and is as limber as a gumby doll. Touchdown, son of Galoubet A, stood in Ireland for many years and produced among others, Liscalgot, 2002 WEG Jerez Gold Medalist out of an Irish mare, Lady Willpower, but just can't recall the speicifics of the breeding on the dam side right now.

    Hope that helps to give some ideas as to how to use Irish blood with warmblood, particularly Holsteiner and SF, and TB to produce for the top of sport.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2009
    Posts
    345

    Default

    Foals can be registered in USA with Continental Studbook (CS). And in Ireland as discussed above. I was told he would have to be inspected if I wanted IDHSNA papers on my Flexible filly.......and when I discuss this with the registrar I had to explain who Flexible was. This was a few months ago, but he was 2nd in WC Finals in 2008 and on winning Nations Cups Teams for many years so I was taken back that I needed to explain who he was. Likely not a problem anymore!!!
    Don't you think Flexible deserves a pass/waiver on the IDHSNA inspection requirement given his amazing successes? So silly for IDHSNA to miss out on this Irish horse.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2011
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    Carolinas/East Coast
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knowthatifly View Post
    Don't you think Flexible deserves a pass/waiver on the IDHSNA inspection requirement given his amazing successes? So silly for IDHSNA to miss out on this Irish horse.
    Absolutely! The IDHS-NA folks should be embarrassed that they didn't know who he was I feel as though they are so busy arguing amongst themselves and picking at each other, they have their heads in the sand when it comes to the real world and open competition (not everyone, but most). The Irish horses in NA will be the ones who suffer from it in the end. If they can't get their act together, they and the horses will loose even more respect and favor. My apologies for venting...
    Disclaimer: I don't know everything, but I'm sticking to what I know and we'll go from there.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2010
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousMarie View Post
    Absolutely! The IDHS-NA folks should be embarrassed that they didn't know who he was I feel as though they are so busy arguing amongst themselves and picking at each other, they have their heads in the sand when it comes to the real world and open competition (not everyone, but most). The Irish horses in NA will be the ones who suffer from it in the end. If they can't get their act together, they and the horses will loose even more respect and favor. My apologies for venting...
    LOL - this has been a long topic of conversation with some close friends here today and I just caught up on this post. If they could all stop arguing about "what should be allowed in" to the registry they might actually be able to get ahead!! Please note the Billy Stud in UK that breeds "European Warmbloods" they have a good amount of Irish blood including Clover Hill crossed back on Dutch stallions. But they would rather call them EW instead of Irish...leave the reason why up to you to decide...LOL
    Lisa Gerdon
    www.breedirish.com
    Waxhaw, NC



  13. #13
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    Jul. 10, 2010
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Also wanted to note that I just put one of our last colts (3 yr old gelding) by the Clover Hill son The Pride of Gloster RID under saddle, he was my test cross on a KWPN Nimmerdor mare. And I have to say I am quite impressed super cross! SOlid bay, great mind, lovely suspension. He has all the potential. I also have his half sister out of an KWPN "Argus" mare, she is a yearling but I like cross more and more each day. I really like the CH to Dutch stallion product.
    Lisa Gerdon
    www.breedirish.com
    Waxhaw, NC



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
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    Default

    Flexible is Approved in HSI(Horse Sport Ireland registry) he is 1/4 Irish Draught(Seaquest RID) I would be surprised if his offspring were not approvable in IDHSNA as I believe that those criteria are what is needed. As to a "registrar" not knowing Flexible I think the gal in the office is a secretary a very knowledgable person but not an expert...you should talk to the Registration Officer for the Society. I will ask around. The point of Flexible not being a fancy modern looking warmblood...I am pretty sure that I would rather have his heart and jump and the ability to stay sound...he has all that in spades. I know "I" am looking to lease a jumper mare for him. I have purebred ID mares maybe one would have that intangible charecter and heart to make good use of that precious semen. PatO



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