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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2010
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    Posts
    86

    Default Desperados' Frozen Semen

    Does anyone know of mares in the US that are in foal or have had a foal by Desperados using frozen semen? A friend in Germany told me that breeders are having problems getting mares in foal using frozen semen. I called Sprehe and was told that the problem is that breeders aren't using repro clinics but their own vets in the field. I've already used two doses inseminated by a theriogenologist who said that the semen looked great, it did not result in a pregnancy. I would like to try again, but need to know if anyone has had success.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2008
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    I'd like to know too, Top Kat. I love the stallion, and his offspring.
    PS - Very nice horses on your website.



  3. #3

    Default

    I had a small black dot but no pregnancy earlier this year. My vet said the semen was about 25% mobility. Carol at Superior Equine Sires is keeping data on semen conception rates and said other people were reporting higher rates. Call/email her and then report back what she says.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2010
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by back in the saddle View Post
    I had a small black dot but no pregnancy earlier this year. My vet said the semen was about 25% mobility. Carol at Superior Equine Sires is keeping data on semen conception rates and said other people were reporting higher rates. Call/email her and then report back what she says.
    Thank you for your advice, I will certainly call Carol. I have 3 doses and don't want to invest in the clinic stay and vet bills unless there's a fairly good chance at conception. I've thought about sending a straw to UC Davis or let Select Breeders here in CA test it.

    My infertile stallion who is now 23 looked great under the microscope, I was shipping semen with no pregnancies. I had done a workup at UC Davis, he was said to be satisfactory for shipping. It wasn't until I sent another extended sample that it was discovered that too many sperm had abnormal caps and for the needed numbers, there weren't enough PMMN sperm and that he was no longer satisfactory for shipping.

    I've heard of mares getting in foal with 25% motility, but it certainly isn't the ideal. I'll post whatever information I gather.



  5. #5

    Default

    That would be good info. Definitely would save money in the long run if it's not ideal.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2009
    Posts
    243

    Default

    I am in Australia but i daresay the semen is the same quality

    I have had 2 pregnancies with the Desperados frozen - and it is 4 straws per dose

    I got one pregnancy with 2 straws (half a dose) and the second pregnancy with 1 straw only

    So i would say the frozen semen is good

    Actually i have just imported a tank of frozen semen from germany and the desperados we bought came out as 5 straws per dose this time, so that may be what you are getting too

    The semen is excellent

    Paulamc



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Wynnewood, Oklahoma
    Posts
    5,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Kat View Post
    My infertile stallion who is now 23 looked great under the microscope, I was shipping semen with no pregnancies. I had done a workup at UC Davis, he was said to be satisfactory for shipping. It wasn't until I sent another extended sample that it was discovered that too many sperm had abnormal caps and for the needed numbers, there weren't enough PMMN sperm and that he was no longer satisfactory for shipping.

    I've heard of mares getting in foal with 25% motility, but it certainly isn't the ideal. I'll post whatever information I gather.
    Ahhh, here is the million dollar question. When dealing with frozen semen, you can have GREAT motility and horrible fertility. And the converse can be true as well. Motility is just a part of the equation. The acrosomal cap integrity is also important and the sperm can still me motile and have "faulty" caps. So, just having the semen checked for motility won't necessarily answer all of your questions.

    The 30% threshold desired for commercially frozen semen is only one part that of what you want to see. And the other thing to be well aware of is that most evaluations that are done are subjective. In our courses we put up videos of semen for people to evaluate. Rarely is it accurately evaluated. Typically people will overestimate the motility especially if there are a large number of motile sperm.

    Good luck!
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2010
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Thanks so much Paulamc and Kathy. I was beginning to worry since no one responded that they either had a mare in foal or knew of anyone that had a foal in the past. COTH is the place to ask. The good news is that I have 3 doses + 2 straws (I don't know why the vet didn't use all of the straws) left and will try the two on a mare without fertility issues. The mare I used had her first foal at side, the vet said some mares will not settle with a foal at side, would you be so kind to address that Kathy, I think she said it was hormonal. The mare is a bit nervous as well.

    I was going to test a straw, now don't want to waste it thanks to Paulamc's comments. I'm guessing that you're quite happy with your foals by Desperados, what did you get? I saw him with Kristina Sprehe at the stallion parade earlier this year, lovely to see such a well matched pair. I am a huge fan of De Niro and his sons, I would name him 'The Holy Grail' that someone asked about on another thread.

    Carol D.



  9. #9

    Default

    Sure wish my Desperados embryo would have taken.

    http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...2012-announced



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2004
    Location
    Still here ~ not yet there
    Posts
    6,723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Kat View Post
    Thank you for your advice, I will certainly call Carol. I have 3 doses and don't want to invest in the clinic stay and vet bills unless there's a fairly good chance at conception. I've thought about sending a straw to UC Davis or let Select Breeders here in CA test it.

    My infertile stallion who is now 23 looked great under the microscope, I was shipping semen with no pregnancies. I had done a workup at UC Davis, he was said to be satisfactory for shipping. It wasn't until I sent another extended sample that it was discovered that too many sperm had abnormal caps and for the needed numbers, there weren't enough PMMN sperm and that he was no longer satisfactory for shipping.

    I've heard of mares getting in foal with 25% motility, but it certainly isn't the ideal. I'll post whatever information I gather.
    There is no way to "Test" the semen other than put it in mares and see if they get pregnant. That is the only way. That's why I never want to be the first guy to try a stallion's frozen semen.

    BTW, I've known two mares who got pregnant with frozen semen that had below 25% motility -- in fact in one case the vet swore everyone of those swimmers were dead! That's how little movement he saw! But the mare got pregnant and the foal was fine (I think she's 2 yrs old now).

    I've also personally used frozen with 60-70% motility, inseminated at the proper time and never got a pregnancy.

    So really, motility doesn't mean too much.



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