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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2007
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    California
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    Default training frustration

    Okay after a giant plate of cheese potatoes and a glass of wine - I do feel a bit better... but horses can be SOOO frustrating.

    You think you are getting somplace - you spend countless hours, countless dollars, and countless amount of patients on these giant fluffy weed wackers - pouring your heart and soul into the care and management - thinking, yes! You are finally getting through and say "out loud" I am soo happy with how the horses are going to...... BAM..... horse turns into a nut job out of the blue. Nervous, grinding teeth, find yourself cantering and trotting for hours to get this horse to calm down..... I made sure to stay relaxed and calm but no change...

    I have always ridden hot horses. I have always ridden green (untrained horses) horses with issues.... I just want my horses to relax, and go out and hack around.... but is it not possible? Will I ever get a trained horse before I die?

    You get to the point where you wonder how much flippin' training does one horse need to "get it"? I guess I simply want to go out, ride every day and not have to always deal with some issue... and compete without so much worry.

    Okay thanks for listening... just venting
    Don't saw on your horses mouth it's not a piece of wood! ~ GM



  2. #2
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    Jun. 2, 2000
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    Sussex, NJ
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    That is a horse for you. I had one that I swear was only good every other day. I got to the point I felt like only riding her every other day! BTW What are cheese potatoes???



  3. #3
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    Jan. 1, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesstable View Post
    Nervous, grinding teeth, find yourself cantering and trotting for hours to get this horse to calm down..... I made sure to stay relaxed and calm but no change...
    At that point, I usually call it a day. I just get off. Cantering or trotting for hours has never worked for me. Most times the horse just gets more wired up.

    Truthfully, I'm getting too old for that stuff, anyway.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2001
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    Member of both the Southern California and Michigan clique - currently residing in Grand Rapids, MI
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    I wouldn't mind the cheesy potatoes and wine, but the hot horses I am not in for. To me, big difference between green and hot. I like them stupid and slow That way I have more time for cheesy potatoes and wine (fine, cheddar potato chips and beer, I am too lazy to cook too.)

    Seriously, vent away. Two steps forward, one step back and all of that. It happens to everyone.



  5. #5
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    Oct. 14, 2007
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    California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Fish View Post
    At that point, I usually call it a day. I just get off. Cantering or trotting for hours has never worked for me. Most times the horse just gets more wired up.

    Truthfully, I'm getting too old for that stuff, anyway.
    YEA I'm definately too old! I'm ready for the spa and a massage... ouch.

    CHEESE Potatoes are sliced potatoes "covered" in shredded cheese.

    Thanks so much to both of you for your posts.... makes me feel better.... this stuff has a way of eating away at your head doesn't it? I want to figure this out.. what do I do to fix this? Etc... I want to do right by my horses, but sometimes they don't make it very easy....

    Again thanks!
    Don't saw on your horses mouth it's not a piece of wood! ~ GM



  6. #6
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    Oct. 14, 2007
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    California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justice View Post
    I wouldn't mind the cheesy potatoes and wine, but the hot horses I am not in for. To me, big difference between green and hot. I like them stupid and slow That way I have more time for cheesy potatoes and wine (fine, cheddar potato chips and beer, I am too lazy to cook too.)

    Seriously, vent away. Two steps forward, one step back and all of that. It happens to everyone.

    Maybe I should take a glass of wine down to my horses... Both my goober horses are lazy butts but deep down inside there is "hot-ness" not just how pretty they are - but really "forward".. As I am aging - hot's not that much fun...

    Oh and the cheesey potatoes were in a box. Target makes them. LOL.. But they are REALLY GOOD. I'm lazy too.. expecially after "todays lovely ride"...

    Two steps forward and one step back - isn't that a song by Paula Abdul?

    Kind of feels like 1/2 step forward in a 1 year period and 50 steps back in ONE DAY.

    Thanks for listening!
    Don't saw on your horses mouth it's not a piece of wood! ~ GM



  7. #7
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    Jul. 2, 2009
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    doubestable... sometimes i have the same problem... my horse has anxiety more then he gets hot. the way i get him to calm back down from being worked up is to walk.... i walk him out for a good 5-10 mins on a loose rein and pick him back up and hes back to being mellow. just what i do, never know it may work.



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallygirl View Post
    doubestable... sometimes i have the same problem... my horse has anxiety more then he gets hot. the way i get him to calm back down from being worked up is to walk.... i walk him out for a good 5-10 mins on a loose rein and pick him back up and hes back to being mellow. just what i do, never know it may work.
    You know, I think you are right.. it's not really "hot" more anxiety based. He tries TOO hard and another horse or something will distract him and he just worries too much....

    I will give that a try.... Thanks for the help!
    Don't saw on your horses mouth it's not a piece of wood! ~ GM



  9. #9
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    Jan. 1, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesstable View Post
    YEA I'm definately too old! I'm ready for the spa and a massage... ouch.

    CHEESE Potatoes are sliced potatoes "covered" in shredded cheese.

    Thanks so much to both of you for your posts.... makes me feel better.... this stuff has a way of eating away at your head doesn't it? I want to figure this out.. what do I do to fix this? Etc... I want to do right by my horses, but sometimes they don't make it very easy....

    Again thanks!
    Maybe it's just my riding style, but I really have trouble getting a wound up horse to relax. I try to gauge where I'm getting SOME response, even a little, and then quit. I figure at my age, I'm never going to outride a wound up horse, so I've become the "great compromiser."

    DH loves cheese fries...



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 3, 2010
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    I got my gelding for this exact reason. Lets just say I got a really good deal, though, at this point, I wouldnt sell him for all the money in the world. He was trained, and seasoned, just older and out of work. He has been my best friend since the first second I sat on him.

    I work with mostly babies, greenies, and hot horses too, hell I got thrown off a 3 year I old I just broke today! It does get frustrating sometimes, and the reward of "oh my God, he got it!" is amazing, but sometimes, actually, always, its nice to have that one horse you know, no matter what, is going to back your happy butt around.

    Also, I 100% agree with Tallygirl. In my experience, very few hot hores, or horses with anxiety, every get better from trotting and cantering for along time. Most of them turn into energizer bunnies, and even though, ultimately, I will get what I want, it is never as good as I wanted, and frankly after 2 hours of fighting with a horse, no one wants to do anything but get off and call it a day (which, as you know, you can NOT do). I have a large pony right now who is a super, super pony, but he is very quick, and it is all anxiety based. When I first got on him today he was ready to go, go, go, the slightest leg meant FORWARD, NOW, to him. The more you get in his face, the more he tenses up. I walked him around on a lose rein as if we were cooling out for about 10 or 15 minutes until he was quieted down, then picked up a trot on a loose rein. Using my body (sitting up, and deep) and voice commands to get him to come back to me when he was being quick, but never PUNISHING him for it. I kept my legs nice and soft, and when we started working up or small hill, I gave him all the reins and a little leg and let him move forward and stretch. He was on the buckle going like a perfect saind by the second time around. When working with any horse, it is always better to start of relaxed, you cant have a calm trot from a crazy walk, or a calm canter from a crazy trot. Keep them thinking, do lots of circles. Big circles, little circles, do them all over. One thing I can say about that though, is dont drill them into the horse. If you dont get the bend the first time, or maybe the circle turned into a 3/4 circle, do a second one, but after that go forward again and try again a few strides later. If you feel yourself getting worked up, stop working and walk yourself out. If you're hot, you wont get anywhere. It is always important to set a goal for the day, but it's ok if some days you need to change that goal because of the horse being too fresh.

    Good luck!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2001
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    Glenns, VA USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesstable View Post
    I want to do right by my horses, but sometimes they don't make it very easy....
    Easy is boring!

    Honestly, I'm not the same everyday, just ask my DH! They are living beings, and they are allowed to have days they get up on the wrong side of the stall.

    Of course, if this is a reoccurring theme, a thorough re-evaluation of his daily stable mgmt, nutritional plan, and training regime may be need.

    We have all been there and will be there again as long as we keep riding these magnificent animals!
    www.brydellefarm.com ....developing riders, NOT passengers!
    Member of LNHorsemanshipT & Proud of It Clique
    "What gets me up every morning is realizing how much more there is still to learn." -GHM



  12. #12
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    Oct. 26, 2008
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    Florida
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    Default

    There's an unspoken thread running through this. Its the "I'm getting too old for this" thread. I can relate. My horse, an 8 yr old TB, is very lazy, but once you get him forward, he's forward like a freight train. At first I had some confidence issues, went forward, had a nasty fall, went waaaay backward. Fast forward a year, had confidence, doing 3' courses, got to show finally, then horse decides to stop at the jumps bc he doesn't like my ride. Its leg on or I don't go, which translated into, forward, forward and more forward. OK, so now I'm back 3 steps, jumping no more than 2'6", and not trusting him or me. I'm 57, too old for this, really. What was I thinking?

    Well, slowly, slowly we are going forward again. I've decided not to berate myself, or horse. Celebrate the small advances. Go home and have multiple glasses of wine! It will get better, in spite of the setbacks.



  13. #13
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    Aug. 3, 2009
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    Default

    Some horses are wired to just run run run and when you get their adrenaline working, you have horses that is just doing vs doing and thinking....

    "Adrenaline is a hormone produced by the adrenal gland in the body of many animals. When it is produced in the body it stimulates the heart-rate, dilates blood vessels and air passages, and has a number of more minor effects. Adrenaline is naturally produced in high-stress or physically exhilarating situations. "

    The term "fight or flight" is often used to characterize the circumstances under which adrenaline is released into the body. It is an early evolutionary adaptation to allow better coping with dangerous and unexpected situations. With dilated blood vessels and air passages, the body is able to pass more blood to the muscles and get more oxygen into the lungs in a timely manner, increasing physical performance for short bursts of time



  14. #14
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    Oct. 14, 2007
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    California
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    I guess I can reference his papers and know he has Nijinski running through those veins.

    It was said by HealingHeart, and makes a lot of sense - this is how horses are put together.. I would guess and say my horses blood line is a better Adrenaline producer than most and that's what does make them extremely successful competition horses - yet you are dealing with an ever so sensitive brain.

    I am really glad I vented here because you guys have given me sooo much more to think about. I know in my original vent it was about "me" but really it hurts me to see my horse stress. I want him to enjoy his time with me.

    Starda01, yeah your right.... I do feel at my age I should use it or lose it.. and I do want to stay active... I try to revert back to our other set backs and see we actually did move forward. And I sure have had my share of wine!

    I went to the barn tonight to say goodnight to him and told him I loved him; gave him a big "face" hug.. (he hates those and actually let me give him one- my other horse loves them)... and I don't want to work him that hard because I don't want to hurt him.... I just want him to enjoy himself... For him that would be a huge pasture filled with green grass...

    Yeah Brydell Farm easy is boring - I think I am emotional and I think my horses pick up on it. But he didn't wake up on the wrong side of the stall, he woke up on the wrong side of the property!

    AliO hot horses definately get hotter... Today I let him gallop forward and I have "never" felt him move that fast under me in the 10 years I have been riding him..... thought for a moment he needed to be a barrel racer....

    Go Fish - I am like you too... I think they feed off my competitive mind. I think I need to try to find a jumper trainer to work with because I think that is more my thing. I have never done jumpers - and the hardest thing for me is Hunters.. to stay quiet and steady paced is SOOO HARD.. For me and my horse. I have been working at it for years because I know I must accomplish this.. but - ugg... it's SO not easy.

    Again thank you guys so much.... I don't have many horse friends to go over this stuff with... I have my horses in my yard and trailer in for lessons so I don't really know anyone at the training barn.

    It's so great just cyber talking with other nice horse people! THANKS.
    Don't saw on your horses mouth it's not a piece of wood! ~ GM



  15. #15
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    Feb. 19, 2009
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    cheesy potatoes, YUM! It ain't called comfort food for no reason

    Just wanted to say I've been there too. Although my horse is trained, she's not push button. I'll be bouncing along for a few weeks, having great rides, when BAM! Most horrible ride ever. I think part of a horse's job is to keep you humble. They are good at keeping the ego in check because they certainly can bring you down a peg! But, keep at it because it just makes those good rides that much better.



  16. #16
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    Jan. 4, 2010
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    159

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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesstable View Post

    You get to the point where you wonder how much flippin' training does one horse need to "get it"?

    EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

    The truth is one breakthrough ride will change it all but you wont know its a breakthrough until you look at it in hindsight.

    Training is a never ending road. You will never be "finished". You will just one day get an attitude that makes tuning and training easier. One day they will just "get it" and get over themselves and trust you.

    Sometimes they need a little humility along the way....not easy! Find a program and method that works for you and your horses for what you want out of them.

    Maybe some eyes on the ground will help?



  17. #17
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    Feb. 2, 2003
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    Default

    My specialty has become (by default) greenies and hot horses, (because no one else seems to want to ride them!)

    You can't ride it out of them, but I have a few tricks:

    Change it up. Try something different, trail ride, free jumping, or put them in a trailer and haul them to a friend's barn and ride them.

    Turn-out

    A good gallop. We winter in California at a polo place that has a 5/8 mile track. It's a little scary at first, but a gallop once or so a week really helps a hot horse. I work up to be able to let them go about 80 percent, and they usually don't even need a whole lap! Remember, hot horses are hot in the brain. Letting them go once in a while releases their mind. On the days they gallop for me, that's all they do. Usually the next day they are like a new horse!

    Don't worry about it. Eat your cheese potatoes and drink your wine tonight, and then get up in the morning and try again. If you keep plugging away and putting in the time, eventually you'll get somewhere! All of us have been in your shoes!
    ******
    "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."
    -H.M.E.



  18. #18
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    May. 13, 2009
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    Doublesstable,
    I always like your posts because I can tell you really care about your horses. If I've had a bad day riding, I know a lot of my anxiety comes from me worrying if I've done right by my horse. That big horse you posted a video of a while ago looks like he would be an awesome jumper! So, I say, welcome to jumper world! No braiding, no huntcoats, no lunging at 5am- it's pretty fun!



  19. #19
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    Oct. 11, 2006
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    Doublesstable. this is SUCH a timely post. I have been feeling this way too, although I have only had my OTTB since October...Some days, he comes out and doesn't seem to remember ANYTHING we have been working on for the past 5 months! We can't trot in the same rhythm and pace, we forget that we must BEND in the turns (IN not OUT! - wait, we're not supposed to drop our hip and our shoulder and counter bend?) Some days I am so frustrated with him that I want to cry. I know that he wants to be good...if I could just get him to balance himself and slow down, we'd be set..and my guy doesn't jig, run, etc....he just leans on his forehand 1/2 the circle, speeds up...half halt, we're slow and controlled again for a few steps, then back to square one...it's a bit disheartening...and don't even get me STARTED on the boogie man at the end of the indoor. Some days, it's not even worth riding at that end...i can't wait to ride him outside and see what kind of horse I have. VENT away, cyber friend...i feel your pain..i'm right there with you....



  20. #20
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    Jan. 29, 2003
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    Canada
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    You can tell it's been a long winter

    I just finally came to the realization after 20 years of riding & 10 years of greenies that I need a broke horse.

    I'm just tired out with training - you know that unsatisfied feeling you get after a ride where you didn't accomplish much? Ugh...I just want to get on & ride. Doesn't mean I don't want to work - I enjoy flatwork but I'm sick of having to deal with issues on top of it all.
    \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River



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