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  1. #1061

    Default

    Originally posted by Serah:
    I DO know people who have committed these crimes. And i went to the authorities, i went directly to the insurance company, and they told me basically to F**K OFF and that it was non of my business and that this person was a loyal customer of theirs...That's what i get for trying to save them 15,000$. So as far as getting the Insurance companies on your side....Good Luck.
    Why don't you contact the media, most of the big market news stations have an investigation team that would take over and investigate why authorities would not address. I would not rest because someone said no. Did you go to the DA or just local police? Write the insurance commission of your state. I can't believe an insurance company would tell you to mind your own business.

    You live in Atlanta, call CNN. This is a national story.



  2. #1062
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2003
    Location
    Land of cold, snow, & bugs, AKA Minnie Soda
    Posts
    6,500

    Default

    Snowbird-where did you get your bracelets from? I am getting mine from reminderband.com and the cardinel red for 20 plus shipping makes it $2.35 a piece, and that is without the white lettering, which is an additional .25 per bracelet. But I spose if you order them in larger amounts at a time that will make them cheaper in the end. I am just leery of ordering a ton and then not being able to get rid of them. Do you want me to not order any more and let you handle it? I thought that with as much as you have on your plate, I would try to ease you of that burden. Fed Ex is hurtling my way with another 20 which should be here shortly, many of which had been spoken for.
    Co-founder of White Trash Dressage (WTD)
    http://www.lulu.com/mavw1971
    also available on Amazon.com
    http://www.cafepress.com/wtdressage



  3. #1063
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2001
    Location
    Trailer Trash Ammy!
    Posts
    19,520

    Default

    Originally posted by Serah:
    I DO know people who have committed these crimes. And i went to the authorities, i went directly to the insurance company, and they told me basically to F**K OFF and that it was non of my business and that this person was a loyal customer of theirs...That's what i get for trying to save them 15,000$. So as far as getting the Insurance companies on your side....Good Luck.
    The correct steps IMO would have been:

    1. Police. File a report.
    2. Report vet to State Board of Veterinary Examiners.
    3. Report incident to insurance company, providing copy of police report.
    4. Report incident to local ASPCA and, here in Georgia, the GA Dept. of Agriculture, which licenses all boarding/training facilities, likewise together with a copy of the police report.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  4. #1064
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2000
    Location
    VA, but visitor to Garrison & Toronto
    Posts
    13,792

    Default

    Got some more signatures from people I spoke with at Lexington. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif
    \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E



  5. #1065
    Join Date
    May. 15, 1999
    Location
    The top of Schooley's Mountain, NJ
    Posts
    12,539

    Default

    I got them from the same place but I ordered 200 so it cost $350.00 plus shipping express. I wouldn't suggest buying them without the white second color. The recessed print is almost invisible as far as being able to read it. It's well worth the extra $.25.

    There is another place where you can get them silk screened and they're cheaper but I haven't had time to find it again.

    Anyway please let me know who wants them. I did receive two checks but they don't request any bracelets so I put that into the fund.



  6. #1066
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2000
    Location
    VA, but visitor to Garrison & Toronto
    Posts
    13,792

    Default

    Agree - maybe I'll try some liquid paper/white out on my bracelet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif Although, people have noticed it without being able to see the writing and have asked what it's for. That, at least, starts a dialog. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif
    \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E



  7. #1067
    Join Date
    May. 15, 1999
    Location
    The top of Schooley's Mountain, NJ
    Posts
    12,539

    Default

    Exactly War Admiral, that's what Pwynn meant. We have to start to be proactive if we don't want that kind of environment in our sport. And, we have to be as diligent in following through as they are in being delinquent in their attitudes.



  8. #1068
    Join Date
    May. 15, 1999
    Location
    The top of Schooley's Mountain, NJ
    Posts
    12,539

    Default

    Duffy try using masking tape and spray paint. I think white out is water soluable.



  9. #1069
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2002
    Location
    Harford County, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    4,553

    Default

    Taking a quick break from a MOUNTAIN of work here...

    I want to address the sense of "why bother" that I see cropping up.

    I can understand the frustration; I can understand the feeling that it won't make things any different for the people who are suspended; I can understand all of it. I cannot understand condoning the actions, nor can I accept that it's so widespread as to be generally accepted to defraud insurance companies by maiming or killing an innocent animal.

    But the MOST important reason, for me, that I put some time into this is simple: I want to be able to answer with honesty, to anyone who asks, that I truly do love my sport and my horse, and that I respect the effort that goes into it.

    I cannot respect it if I think that it is ONLY populated by people with no concern or love for the animals, if I think that all trainers are out to win at any cost and that all owners will rip off insurors in a heartbeat. And if I don't believe that, then I feel I have an obligation to support my beliefs with action.

    Will PV apply to reinstated? I don't know. Will he be reinstated if he does apply? Again, I don't know. I know that right now, I have some differences of opinion with USEF, and am choosing to put my support and money elsewhere...but whether or not I join again WILL in part be determined by how they treat this issue should it arise. The one reinstatement - of which I was unaware until the boards mentioned it - already has me deeply concerned.

    Again...it's not a personal vendetta against anyone. I wouldn't know any of these people if I fell over them. BUT, I do NOT respect what they did. And I do believe that actions have consequences, and some of those consequences are lifelong. I can see that something to feel sorry about (that they have to live under a cloud, as it were), or as a shame, or as anything I want...but the consequences remain.

    The people involved in the horse killing scandals were not unaware of the illegality of their actions, regardless of how THEY viewed the morality of them, and they should not have been unaware of the fact that those actions carried consequences that could follow them for life. They made a choice, perhaps one they truly regret, but whether or not they'd make the same choice today doesn't change the past. They did what they did, and have to live with it.

    The sport, however, does NOT need to accept what they did. We don't like to think this today, but some things are NOT acceptable, nor are the forgettable (not "forgiveable" because that is not for me to judge). It is because of that belief that I support No Reinstatement. Because if we all just throw up our hands and say "what's the use" we will imo have lost not just the respect of those outside our sport - who would be justified in wondering that such a thing isn't seen as horrific - but we would lose our self-respect, too.



  10. #1070
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 1999
    Location
    Rosehill, TX
    Posts
    7,080

    Default

    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”



  11. #1071
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    87

    Default

    I think Hopeful Hunter said it beautifully.

    My thought, or question rather, not to be redundant,but.. was what others have asked: "where is the line?"

    Who hasn't done something they've regretted, who hasn't suffered the consequences of a mistake. Yes, you learn from those mistakes and, in some, in many, instances you get a second chance. However, sometimes, that mistake is so big... and consciously made and is so, so inexcusable.

    Well, what's a lifetime suspension for, if not for that? I don't even want to know...

    This was nothing less than greed, cruelty and self-absorption (is that a word?) of the worst kind.

    I'm not saying this would be an excuse, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) nobody involved was in some sort of terrible, back-against-the-wall crisis, the kind where panic and desperation make an otherwise good and moral person make a terrible, terrible, one-time mistake...

    No, there's a time when it's "you f***** up and you're done."

    I can't imagine being able to come, being able to stand coming within sight of a horse if I had participated in something like that. The desire to continue on riding and practicing a trade within the industry after that... there's a big disconnect there... I guess. I'd ask, If you owned up to doing wrong, was it only because you got caught?



  12. #1072
    Join Date
    May. 15, 1999
    Location
    The top of Schooley's Mountain, NJ
    Posts
    12,539

    Default

    TL the line is very clear and unwaivering. Those who have been convicted or confessed to killing horses to benefir themselves or their clients financially.

    The 2nd level is those who have defrauded horse owners of their right to be paid what their horses were sold for less a reaonable commission. Many of these horses wound up in horrible condition and some have not yet been found. Those convicted by a court and who have a court order prohibiting them from further engagement in this sport at least during te years of their parole should also be banned for life. These are not undefinable these are people who have been convicted and confessed their guilt in a Court of Law. The USEF has no right to refuse to enforse this court order. It does have the proved right to keep unsavory people out of this sport.

    The line is a conviction in a court of law. I am personally offended that someone convicted and sitting in jail can be listed as a Member in Good Standing. If our predessers were derelict in their responsibilities it is no excuse for us not to try and fix it for the future.



  13. #1073
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2005
    Location
    Tundra
    Posts
    808

    Default

    I'm glad that all of you are so quick cry "witch" at me, when i am honestly telling you I TRIED EVERYTHING to get this case brought to attention. And for someone to have the nerve to tell me I'm no better than the people who committed these crimes?!?!!?!?! YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME!!!! I called the police, they told me to go to the insurance company, so i went directly to the insurance company, and spoke with them about this case and every exact detail on it, and they treated me like I was outstepping my boundaries, and they threatened me that basically if I don't back off they were going to slap a slander suit on me...I'm sorry...but where do I go from there? The bottomw line is, if the police or other authorities were to get involved, and they went to the Insurance Co. and the insurance co. says everything is legit, the trail will end there. I tried to tell the company they were being had, I talked to the adjuster on the claim, i sent her specific conversations that were held between the owner of the horse and I... I told her every detail I could. She never called back, she never did anything. The owner got her money. The horse is dead, I, and everyone else that knew the situation, did everything we felt we could... It's really easy for all of you to sit here and tell me i did this wrong and that wrong...You think you could get farther fine...PT me and I'll give you all the details and evidence and you can take it on yourself, but don't you dare tell me that I am no better than the people who committed this crime, because you have no idea the pain i went through and the lengths I would have gone to to save that horse.
    www.millcreekfarm.net
    **RIP Kickstart aka Char 12/2/2009**



  14. #1074
    Join Date
    May. 15, 1999
    Location
    The top of Schooley's Mountain, NJ
    Posts
    12,539

    Default

    Serah, I'm sorry it sounded that way. What you did was much more than most have done and I respect your effort. It is tough to fight the establishment that protects such goings on. Probably because it was only $15.000 it was cheaper for them to pay rather than to argue.

    I know how you feel, I've been taking abuse for years because I won't just roll over and play nice. Now I'm old enough not to care about being popular; I just want to help right things that are wrong.

    I got stung at the convention because I trusted the establishment and I really believed they cared.



  15. #1075
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2004
    Location
    Catonsville, MD
    Posts
    6,919

    Default

    Hopeful Hunter: BRAVA! Exactly.

    Snowbird: my own first rule is that one should never never never trust organizations, even when they are made up of individuals that you trust. Organizations will always behave in a way to protect themselves, save themselves work and grief, and minimize input from troublesome outsiders. To be effective in this, our attitude has to be "We cannot be shuffled aside, we will not play nice, we will not go away, and we will remember who in the organizations obstructed us when we are able to make our voice heard." That is the only approach that works. When those of you interact with people from USEF or other equine organizations, start taking reporters with you.

    No reinstatement, and no prisoners, either.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09




  16. #1076
    lure Guest

    Default

    Hi, new here. Was scolling thru the 50+ pages of this thread and at some point read a comment about making this not just a US issue. Just wanted to let you all know that I signed the petition, sent it to all my contacts(&not just horse people) & they have signed. We're from Canada & all very familiar with the PV (& others issue). Many of us have spent winters at WEF & have opinions of how 'business has continued & prospered despite' for PV. Your petition has our full support.



  17. #1077
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,188

    Default

    Serah, I'd certainly feel a little jaded if I had done what you did. Good for you for taking action. How sad and pathetic that the insurance company didn't do anything. It actually shocks me as the few times I've known insurance companies to deal with insured horses that are badly hurt, they take great precautions to ensure it is a valid claim.

    Don't let that one insurance company's behavior stop you from trying to protect horses.

    Welcome lure and thank you.



  18. #1078
    Join Date
    May. 15, 1999
    Location
    The top of Schooley's Mountain, NJ
    Posts
    12,539

    Default

    We are invincible if we have courage. We are the horse shows. Maybe not the "elite" but I don't think I want to play in their sandbox. Alone none of us can be successful but together as a group we can accomplish everything we dream to make the world better for our horses.

    As a bottom feeder I look to see where the horse is happy and what he is comfortable doing. If you find that you can have a star both rider and horse. It's when you over reach that all the evil things happen. A family loves everyone some are smarter some are prettier but they are all family. I do the same with students. What horses love is to teach. They teach manners and sportsmanship and love and respect for each person. They help the helpless and and have a contest with the know-it-alls. That's why I love them.

    It is wrong to misuse them. The people who do are as cruel as those who abuse the less talented, the less intelligent and the less beautiful people.



  19. #1079
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2004
    Location
    Northwest
    Posts
    580

    Default

    Originally posted by Serah:
    I just don't understand, why, when you say your focus is for these poor horses that died, why instead of focusing this campaign on horses that are already dead, people that have already been sentenced..WHY dont you turn the focus on things that are still happening... Horses that are STILL being killed for insurance money? Veterinarians that are still illegally signing Death Certificates?!?!? It's beginning to look like there is a personal grudge behind all this, Why dont you focus on saving horses that are still alive? Preventing this from reoccuring??
    Well if you make the penalties for committing these offenses severe enough, you set a precedent that has the possibility of preventing future offences. Besides- can you do two things at once, just because one issue is being addressed does not mean the other one is not. How would you advise prevention? Education? How about making the consequences have some actual negative effects?
    Sometimes going forward is as simple as never going backward.



  20. #1080
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2004
    Location
    Northwest
    Posts
    580

    Default

    Originally posted by Serah:
    I'm glad that all of you are so quick cry "witch" at me, when i am honestly telling you I TRIED EVERYTHING to get this case brought to attention.
    I am sure you did what you could, however was there proof? Other than your word against someone elses? Tangible proof, photos, tape recordings anything like that? If not, and if the insurance amount was not a great deal of money the liklihood of the insurance company delving into it further is slim to none. However I don't know that it means none of them cared or believed you, but they knew they had nothing to go forward on. That is unfortunatly a very harsh reality. Good for you for trying, I know it is hard to stomach but I do have to nelieve that some day these people will get thiers.
    Sometimes going forward is as simple as never going backward.



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