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  1. #1
    Incognito123 Guest

    Default As a buyer would you hold it against a horse on trial if ...

    So yes I changed my name and small details in case someone on the buyer’s side recognizes the scenario.

    Here's the deal, horse went on trial and days 1, 2, 3, 4 horse was good day 4 was up slightly. Day 5 went bananas and took off with rider.

    When I asked some questions, it came out that the horse hasn't been out in 5 days it has been on trial. This horse is used to a lot of turn out and I told them that.

    Is it legit to hold this against the horse?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 19, 2007
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    822

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    I'd be more likely to hold it against the seller or the seller's agent who neglected to mention that the horse needs daily turnout. It's not necessarily a "given" in every program, especially for a sale horse.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2003
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    If lots of turnout doesn't fit their management program, he may not be the right horse for them (and they aren't the right home for the horse). It would certainly be a legitimate reason to pass on the horse.
    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.



  4. #4
    Incognito123 Guest

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    Are you serious? I don't think that I know any horse that goes well being in 24 hrs a day and for 5 days.

    I said that he gets a lot of turn out and they have plenty of turn out and it is not a problem.

    And, since when do you need to tell someone that daily turnout is required? Isn't that basic horse 101? I mean come on.



  5. #5
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    Jun. 10, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito123 View Post
    Are you serious? I don't think that I know any horse that goes well being in 24 hrs a day and for 5 days.

    I said that he gets a lot of turn out and they have plenty of turn out and it is not a problem.

    And, since when do you need to tell someone that daily turnout is required? Isn't that basic horse 101? I mean come on.
    No it isn't "basic horse 101"

    --First off some people are uneducated.
    --Second, not everyone has access to tons of pasture (think highly populated areas)...this has been discussed frequently.
    --Third, horse show situation. Horses are frequently stalled with no turnout whatsoever for 5 days (or more). Horse gets ridden/shown and right back in the stall. Horses may get handwalked or lunged frequently but there's not a whole lot of turnout at horse shows (and when there is any it's expensive).

    And finally, with a horse on trial, some people (buyer or seller) don't want to run the risk of the horse injuring itself out in pasture. When I took a horse on trial private turnout was required. If potential buyer had no access to private turnout they would be inclined to keep it stalled rather than turn it out in a group situation where it would run the risk of being injured.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 20, 2003
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    Middleburg, VA
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    3,014

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    If you were up front about what the horse's needs are, then it should not be held against the horse. If you didn't specify that the horse *must* have daily turnout in your trial agreement, then it is a bit more iffy. Frequently, when horses are on trial, they may get very minimal or no turnout for fear of injury, but they do get ridden and/or lunged every day of the trial.

    I personally am sure to ask people when they inquire about a horse what their turnout situation is like, as some horses just do not do well without regular extended turnout, and I tell all potential buyers what each horse's current turnout schedule is.

    I don't let horses go on trial, but I do write into their sales contract what their turnout routine was while they were here (i.e., 12 hours individual turnout, 24 hours group turnout, etc). When I leased a horse, it was written into the contract that the horse had to have daily individual turnout for a minimum of 2 hours per day.

    Unfortunately, in today's world, you need to specify everything you can.
    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2007
    Location
    Missouri
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    35

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    Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but....

    In my ongoing horse-search, I have taken a couple of horses for a day of try-out, in order to ride them with my coach in a lesson-type situation. I have them for the day to get to know them a bit, groom, tack up, etc. to see if a longer trial is warranted.
    During that time, I am responsible for them, and you better believe that I watch them like a hawk, keep them in a very nice, deeply bedded stall with 2 buckets of clean water, do not allow them to even venture into the small attached paddock and in general take any other precautions possible to make sure nothing happens to them while on my watch.
    I do not advocate a "no-turn-out-ever" policy for a horse once it becomes mine (that is cruel and unusual), but until then, I would not want to risk it getting hurt out playing and bucking, which can happen very easily, as you know.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 27, 2003
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    CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito123 View Post
    Are you serious? I don't think that I know any horse that goes well being in 24 hrs a day and for 5 days.

    I said that he gets a lot of turn out and they have plenty of turn out and it is not a problem.

    And, since when do you need to tell someone that daily turnout is required? Isn't that basic horse 101? I mean come on.
    Well, if you want to be nasty about it... YOU asked for opinions.

    As a buyer, I would certainly evaluate the horse now with the knowledge that he gets wound up with no turn out in five days. If I didn't think I could provide a program that worked for him or that I didn't want to deal with a horse that would be high enough to take off if he didn't get the proper amount of turn-out, I would have no qualms passing and telling the owner/seller exactly why.

    Also, unless I had a specific written agreement with the seller that I would not be responsible for any injuries incurred while in turn-out under my care, I would not turn a trial horse out.

    BTW, in CA, daily turn-out is NOT common. If it is, it's 30 minutes to an hour in small paddock, hardly enough to take or keep the edge off. I bought a new horse in July, and while I try to get him out once or twice a week, I have a hard time with it for a number of reasons (turn-outs might be full, can't find an appropriate buddy for him (he runs without a buddy and will play hard with the wrong one)). He hasn't been out for about 3 weeks now and he's still just fine when ridden. I made sure when shopping that the horse could tolerate the program I would be able to provide.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2003
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    It is also the case that, in many areas of the country, people aren't turning out at the moment due to insanely cold temps, lots of snow, and rain. It isn't unusual for horses to stay in for several days in a row in the winter due to weather or extreme mud in the pastures. Mine is generally out about 8-12 hours a day, but in weather like we've been having, he gets kept inside. And, yes, sometimes it will be as long as five days. Lousy, but I don't control the weather, sad to say.

    As SkipChange said, in a show situation the horse may not get turnout. Many horses in the world do just fine on limited/no turnout. If the horse you are selling does not fit the management program of the barn trying him, then it is completely legitimate for them to pass on the horse. Why in the world would you want him to stay at a place that doesn't appear to be a good fit?
    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipChange View Post
    No it isn't "basic horse 101"


    --Third, horse show situation. Horses are frequently stalled with no turnout whatsoever for 5 days (or more). Horse gets ridden/shown and right back in the stall. Horses may get handwalked or lunged frequently but there's not a whole lot of turnout at horse shows (and when there is any it's expensive).
    True, what happens if they buy this horse and by Sunday of every week the horse wigs out? Something I would like to know in advance



  11. #11
    Incognito123 Guest

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    They can do induvidual turn out and they did not even lunge him before riding. I am not selling a horse that would be doing 5 day A rated shows. It takes a very specific horse that can handle no turnout for 5 days.

    I feel like they were setting him for failure. That's a thought, maybe they were.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito123 View Post
    I feel like they were setting him for failure. That's a thought, maybe they were.
    Paranoid much?
    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2008
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    Each horse as their own personality and some require more turnout than others.

    If these people do not have a turnout schedule that fits the horse's needs, then it may not be the best fit for them.

    Also, while he is on trial, the barn owner of where he is may not want to turn a horse out in her fields that may be gone a week, only there long enough to mess up the herd dynamics.

    It is a tricky situation, but it is up to the buyer.

    A friend once had a horse returned because he was perfect in every way except he was never taught to lunge. At least that's the story the potential buyer told...go figure. Buyer's want what they want and it is their right to turn a horse down for whatever reason. After that horse came back, the sellers were honest and stated that the horse came back because he did not know how to lunge. They got a lot of sympathy from other sellers and buyers that the whole lunging thins was kind of silly. The horse sold to someone else a few weeks later.

    No matter the reason, it is better that the buyers send back something that is not 'perfect' for them, rather than 'be stuck' with a horse they do not like as much.



  14. #14
    Incognito123 Guest

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    I guess I am of the mind that horses are not robots and horses need turnout. I am in an area and so are the buyers that has ample turnout and is very common for horses to go outside. I don't think that is healthy for horses to not get turned out.

    Also, they plenty of fields for individual turnout.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 10, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito123 View Post
    They can do induvidual turn out and they did not even lunge him before riding. I am not selling a horse that would be doing 5 day A rated shows. It takes a very specific horse that can handle no turnout for 5 days.

    I feel like they were setting him for failure. That's a thought, maybe they were.
    Well did you discuss the terms of the trial and stipulate turnout? Never assume that people are smart or educated. No turnout on trial horses is standard operating procedure for some and not for others.

    There is nothing wrong with you wanting the horse in full, daily turnout. I like my horses with 12+ hours of turnout a day. The key step would be telling the client what kind of program they need to have the horse in while on trial and making sure they will provide the care (i.e. turnout) that the horse needs.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 27, 2003
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    CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito123 View Post
    I guess I am of the mind that horses are not robots and horses need turnout. I am in an area and so are the buyers that has ample turnout and is very common for horses to go outside. I don't think that is healthy for horses to not get turned out.

    Also, they plenty of fields for individual turnout.
    That's all well and good, but there are still many reasons NOt to turn a horse out while on trial and there are many reasons to not want to purchase a horse that can't handle being inside for 5 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito123
    It takes a very specific horse that can handle no turnout for 5 days.

    I feel like they were setting him for failure. That's a thought, maybe they were.
    BOTH of my horses (WB and TB), even the super spooky, sensitive one (WB) have been fine with no turn-out. It's not really a 'special horse' that can handle no turn-out for five days. In fact, we have a barn full of them as do many people in Calfornia.

    Changing a program can be difficult on a horse, but again, as I buyer I'd rather see how the horse would handle the situation so that the first time it's in for a week because of an abscess I don't get on expecting a different temperament. If a horse can go without turn-out and keep it together, it will get bonus points. Your's obviously can't, so no bonus points and it could be enough of a negative that I would pass on the horse altogether.

    Why would you be upset that someone who is "setting the horse up for failure" doesn't want it?

    Someone is a little ridiculous in this situation...and it's not the buyer.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2006
    Location
    Delta Quadrant
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    1,350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito123 View Post
    I guess I am of the mind that horses are not robots and horses need turnout. I am in an area and so are the buyers that has ample turnout and is very common for horses to go outside. I don't think that is healthy for horses to not get turned out.

    Also, they plenty of fields for individual turnout.
    I guess I'm the only one that is with you on this. When ever I took a horse on trial in the past, we turned them out. We always cleared it with the owner first, to let them know, that our barn operated on a 12 hour-in/12-out schedule. Never had a seller who had a problem with it.
    There's coffee in that nebula.



  18. #18
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    Apr. 25, 2000
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    Turnout or not, if a horse bolted with me while on trial, I'd pass. Life's too short to deal with things that make me feel like I'm having a heart attack!



  19. #19
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    Dec. 21, 2009
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    740

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    Depends on the rider and situation.

    Will horse have regular turnout if bought?
    Can the rider handle occasional misbehavior, or is it going to be damaging to his/her confidence?
    How badly did he bolt? A few strides or several laps? Was he responsive at all or just completely wacko? Any bucking or just running?


    I wouldn't completely discount the horse, but you need to take it into consideration.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 22, 2006
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    I think that the buyers have every reason to pass if the horse took off with them like that from just no turnout. Do I know lots of horses that don't handle being in a stall? Yes, but I also know lots of horses that can handle being in, they may be fresher and may spook some but they are not out of control. I do think most people do keep up horses on trial or they get some turn out in the ring for awhile while they are watched.

    Think for a minute what if they had turned out the horse and it go hurt? Would you be upset they turned the horse out?

    Hindsight it always 20/20 if they don't want the horse they don't want it. Good Luck.



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