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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 3, 2009
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    33

    Default What would you do if this was your friend..?

    I have a 'friend' who rides at A barn, and boards her horse. Well I do love this girl; I'm really anxious to say something to her. But I'm not sure if it's the 'proper' thing to do.

    This girl is a great person, but is lacking in riding skills. She /refuses/ to takes lessons, refuses to get any help from anybody. Yet, she jumps up to FOUR feet almost every week!

    Now, this is the girl that cannot even *post* stirrupless. Yet, she throws herself (and her poor horse) over the jumps. She lands hard and yanks on her mouth. She thinks a proper head set is more of a "yank-drop-yank-drop" method. One time she also even jumped (although small) in draw reins. Not sure how she managed to stay alive.

    Now; I'm wouldn't be so worried if she was in lessons and was still on the flat. But, she is jumping dangerously high (even I don't jump that yet.) and nobody will step up to the plate and force her to listen. I'm /this/ close to just leaving her a note, or talking with her in person about it.

    Anyone have any ideas on what I should do? I'm very worried that the horse is going to end up in a bad situation, and will get seriously hurt. That mare is one of my favorites, and I'd be sad to see her hurt.

    Thank you for any/all ideas.
    Last edited by BayRuth; Dec. 21, 2009 at 11:05 PM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2008
    Location
    now in KCMO, and plan to stay there
    Posts
    3,132

    Default

    Tell the barn owner of the dangerous behavior and how that may have an impact on said barn owners insurance or other liability issues. It would be best also to help the girl, perhaps in a non-confrontational way such as 'I noticed the other day when you jumped that.... and did you know that if you do xyz your horse will have an easier time doing what you ask?'
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    5,974

    Default

    Well, I'd say if she's consistently jumping four feet sale must be able to ride a little.

    If you two are friends, why don't you ask her to ride with you once a week and sort of critique each other, that way you don't come off as the snob-you-almost-sound-like on your post.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2005
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    3,788

    Default

    Ditto sketcher.

    Maybe you're just jealous that you can't (and maybe won't ever be able) to do that (jump four feet) and it irks you that somebody you think is inept can (and does).



  5. #5
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    Jun. 7, 2008
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    now in KCMO, and plan to stay there
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    Default

    regarding message 4, might be a good idea to re-read for comprehension the part that said 'She lands hard and yanks on her mouth. She thinks a proper head set is more of a "yank-drop-yank-drop" method. One time she also even jumped (although small) in draw reins. Not sure how she managed to stay alive.'.
    Those are not the behaviors of a competent rider, at all. The OP is right to be alarmed. Even worse, I wonder if barn owner is even around when all this is going on. If the 'friend' had a fatal accident and OP is the only other one there, does OP even know how to contact next of kin, etc? Such a dangerous type of riding should not be allowed by barn owner, backyardish or not.
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2007
    Posts
    496

    Default

    Unless this girl is under the age of 18, or her actions are impacting the health and safety of the other boarders and horses or she is damaging farm property....then this is all her problem.

    If she is that incompetent and yet somehow gets her animal over a 4 foot jump, then I foresee Emergency Medical personnel in her future; possibly with the excitement of a Medivac Chopper.

    And perhaps a major medical veterinary bill as well.

    What's the property owner's insurance stance? This is their problem, not yours.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 9, 2009
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    a little north of Columbus GA
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    Default

    I would keep my mouth firmly shut. Unsolicited advice on this sort of thing rarely goes over well. And if she's staying on over a 4' fence, well, she must have *some* riding ability!

    Set a good example with your own riding, and maybe she will ask you for help.
    --
    Wendy
    ... and Patrick



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Default

    I've know plenty of people, particularly fox hunters, who have not ridden with a trainer and keep their horses, at home, in their back yard barn - who (some in their 50's and 60's) could ride circles around and many pretty trainer-laden show ring competitors who tool around on push button horses. And maybe some of those riders in the hunts aren't pretty by showring/trainer standards but they get the job done quite competently.That is why I am not so quick to assume, when someone drops in lack of trainer and backyard barn, that they can not ride.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 3, 2009
    Posts
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    Well, I'd say if she's consistently jumping four feet sale must be able to ride a little.

    If you two are friends, why don't you ask her to ride with you once a week and sort of critique each other, that way you don't come off as the snob-you-almost-sound-like on your post.
    I did not mean to come off as if she cannot *ride*. What I'm saying is, she's jumping 3'9-4' and in my opinion? It's dangerous. =/

    She can ride. As in, she can w/t/c beautifully! But she stopped taking lessons before she started jumping (not that I have a problem with that.) but she then kept bumping up the heights. And higher, and higher. Not to mention that higher she gets, the less she releases, the less she makes an effort. Now this girl is my friend, and I'm certainly not trying to 'bash' her.

    Excuse me if I come off as a 'snob', as I am certainly not. I am just worried that doing what she does might hurt her horse.

    I'll be sure to try to do the critiquing thing (in a nice way.)

    Thanks for the help everybody. Sorry if I came off rude/snobby. I can assure you, I'm not.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 3, 2009
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    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sdlbredfan View Post
    Even worse, I wonder if barn owner is even around when all this is going on. If the 'friend' had a fatal accident and OP is the only other one there, does OP even know how to contact next of kin, etc? Such a dangerous type of riding should not be allowed by barn owner, backyardish or not.
    Regarding to that statement, I have mentioned something to the BO. Unfortunately, my BO is rather..uh. Uninterested in who/what goes on in his stable. He gets people to do it for him.

    Regardless, I have talked to the barn manager about it. I said how I personally thought it was dangerous (as she was sometimes even jumping higher when nobody was around.) and I brought up the subject of her getting hurt, if that ever happened. Yet the BM did nothing. So I'm honestly not sure who to turn to next.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2009
    Location
    Wyoming County NY where Wind is King
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    300

    Default

    Bay Ruth, I understand your frustration. I was working for a barn last year and there were many instances of dangerous riding - as well as dangerous horse management practices.

    Since most of the time I was the only adult in charge on the property, and had the care and safety of all the horses, I was understandably concerned about the liability when people were exhibiting stupid antics and dangerous riding with their horses.

    The deal breaker for me was one evening when I had finished feeding and was in my apt. I heard some noise outside and my dog started barking. I went out and there was a youngster riding in one of the arenas over fences after dark, with her mother sitting in her mini van with the lights on. The kid would jump-horse was a saint and non too happy about the session - leaping like a deer, straining, rider pulling back with horses mouth wide open with eyes wild.

    I went out and suggested that they call it a night-and come back during the day. The mother was not pleased. The kid was furious. 'but I have to get him to jump' ...... WTH Obviously horse was thrilled to be able to stop.

    They huffed off, and of course I thought I'd be fired-however, I wasn't. When I mentioned it to the BO the next morning, she laughed it off like it was no big deal. Her opinion was that if they got hurt, too bad, maybe it would teach them something.

    All well and good, but if something had happened and either one were injured or worse, I was in charge there. Yes, it was not my property, but I was responsible to keep everything safe and sane. That particular maneuver never happened again while I was there, but there were other instances that were pretty frightening that involved boarders and even the BO. Every day put me on edge just waiting for the next safety disaster to happen.

    Unfortunately not all situations are going to be without faults, or BO or riders that have no reasoning capabilities, or cannot foresee liability issues or safety issues regarding horses and riders. There is not much you can do, except go to another barn where it will be another issue of some sort or learn to keep you and your horse safe and keep your own council.

    Someone here has GREAT sig line of something like: 'You can't teach stupid'. Know what I mean? Says it all. Good Luck!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2001
    Location
    NC
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    4,418

    Default

    Bay Ruth,
    Along the lines of what someone else suggested, how about offering to video her if she willl video you? Then kinda work in a mutual critique?



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2009
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    2,108

    Default

    Ditto about videoing each other and then help each other upload them to youtube. Then... tell her about this AWESOME site called The Chronicle of the Horse where she can join and get advice about her riding from all of these pros... If she's truly endangering her or her horse's life then I'm sure someone here will set her straight.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2001
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    over yonder
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BayRuth View Post
    Regarding to that statement, I have mentioned something to the BO. Unfortunately, my BO is rather..uh. Uninterested in who/what goes on in his stable. He gets people to do it for him.

    Regardless, I have talked to the barn manager about it. I said how I personally thought it was dangerous (as she was sometimes even jumping higher when nobody was around.) and I brought up the subject of her getting hurt, if that ever happened. Yet the BM did nothing. So I'm honestly not sure who to turn to next.
    You did the correct thing by alerting the BO and BM to what you consider a dangerous situation. That really is all you can do, even if they choose to do nothing with the information or don't agree with you.
    Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2008
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    Where The Snow Flies
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    Default

    I know the barn that the OP talks of. Unfortunately, this is more the norm than an unusual situation... The BO is a bit... distant and "unique." The lesson students and young boarders quite literally run the barn and take many more liberties than I would feel is appropriate. Because the BO is rather uninterested in running the business, they hired a "BM." This "BM" has minimal horse experience at best. She is a newer horse owner and I believe the BO's hired her because they could mold her to their rather unorthodox way of horse-keeping. They shun most conventional veterinary treatment and do not believe in vaccines or maintenance drugs. The BO has bragged about their non-conventional vet and her willingness to forge rabies certificates so they can travel and show. I'm not a fan of this practice myself.

    The BM has posted here asking about the use of Bute because the BO refuses to use it and chooses herbals over bute. She has inquired as to what the evils of bute are because she has no experience using it herself. I can't say anything bad about this person herself, I just feel she's highly underqualified to be considered a BM for a boarding and lesson facility. I'm not making this a bash the BM post, I'm just concerned that her lack of experience in riding and horse ownership could lead to a horse or rider getting hurt and feel that it's pertinant background to the details of the situation itself. It may very well be the case that the BM doesn't have the experience herself to recognize the danger of the situation.

    I remember one other barn in the area hired one inexperienced girl as a BM because she was cheap and to her strength - a hard worker. But she lacked all around horse experience. One horse was colicking and she didn't recognize it quickly enough and actually brushed off many of the early symptoms. By the time this horse was treated, it was too late - he was twisted and needed to be put down. The vet estimated based on people's comments that he had started colicking about 12-18 hours earlier. If the BM had more experience, she may have been able to get him treatment in a more timely matter and he may have been saved.

    I think it's smart to have BMs in house that have the experience to spot illnesses early, know how to give an IV injection (for banamine, etc. with owner and vet permission of course.) The BM carries much of the burden to insure that all people and horses in the barn are kept safe and need to have the skills and tools to do that properly. In my opinion, such is not the case here. And that is ultimately the fault of the BO.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr. 5, 2004
    Location
    Canada
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    Default

    My rule of thumb is: Unless the person under 18/involves the IMMEDIATE attention of a horse in a life/death situation, everything else is a MYOB situation.
    A quick tutorial on interval training: Conditioning your horse for eventing



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
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    11,372

    Default

    I don't have a lot of close horse friends because I think that when it comes to horses, everyone has their idea of what's right and very few folks seem to be on the same page. It's hard to be good friends with someone who you have very very different views with as a horse person. IMHO.

    That said, the horse people that I AM good friends with who I DO share similar horsey views with, I'd simply pull aside and say something. I'd point out that the HORSE is what I'm concerned about. And my good horse friends (who know me) would know that if I actually SAID something, it must be worth considering at least because I normally would MYOB unless specifically asked---with the exception of if I thought the horse was at risk. Horses first and all that jazz.

    But I'm not you. And I have no idea how close you are w/ this person.

    As a result, I think the video option might be good...but be prepared, she may not see the problem. Then what?

    Unsolicited advice, even the good stuff, is rarely heeded.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
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    New England
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    Default

    All I can say is, she jumped in draw reins?!?
    Holy crap.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Location
    Clemson, SC
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    867

    Default

    Unfortunately I know of trainers around here who ride like the girl your describing. So taking lessons is not necessarily going to help.

    If you aren't getting ready to call 911 every time she rides and it isn't your horse, I wouldn't say anything.

    You might be able to find a *good* trainer that would come in and tell her they need a minimum of x students to make the trip worth it and what a great opportunity it would be and would she be interested, or something similar.
    A lovely horse is always an experience.... It is an emotional experience of the kind that is spoiled by words. ~Beryl Markham



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2005
    Location
    NY
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    567

    Default

    We are not privy to all the back story of your friendship, I think the posters regarding videotaping may have a good idea here.....

    Maybe ask if you could video tape her ride as you want to compare different riding styles with other riders....If you know someone who has a non-yank-in-the-mouth style over fences make sure to tape that as well....

    Invite her to view the tape with you....Perhaps if she SAW what she was doing to this horse's mouth, you might not need to SAY anything......A picture is worth a thousand words....If she sees what a rider who has follow through and doesn't interfere with their horse over fences looks like she may be more inclined to seek some help or even on her own tone down her own style....

    You sound like you are perhaps young and fear coming off as a know-it-all....Understood.....

    Not seeing the situation I think you relayed your concerns, but I do have to agree there are a great many riders out there who do not have picture perfect form, but are still effective and kind riders that do not interfere with their horse....

    I feel for your position, good luck....
    Crayola Posse: Mulberry



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