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LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:24 AM
Has anyone seen the news yet??? OMG it's horrible. Two large planes (poss 737's) were flown into the World Trade Center buildings. It definatly looks like terrorism and they are talking about the planes having been hijacked and then flown into the buildings. It's mind numbing to see the video. They actually have footage of the 2nd plane being flown straight into the building. It's almost surreal!!!!

VTrider
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:28 AM
Oh My God - I can't even get onto CNN right now.

Are the buildings demolished? Were people in the building hurt? This is so scary!

Maria
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:29 AM
The first was a small twin engine. 18 minutes later a second plane crashed into the WTC. At 9:19 not known what the second plane size was.


Explosion and gaping holes in the WTC. One plane hit one tower and the other plane hit the other
tower.

Planes may have been hi-jacked and occupants may have been involved in a suicide mission.

Weather was not a problem. Result of foul play. FBI is investigating.

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:30 AM
People saw it.

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:36 AM
WHY!!!!!! It's so damn senseless!!!!!!!!! Early reports is that one of the planes was a hijacked American Airlines plane that was enroute from Boston to Los Angeles.

Kaori
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:39 AM
Isn't the internet amazing.......?

**Spel chekers, hoo neeeds 'em? Alan James Bean**

Maria
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:40 AM
The second plane may have been a Boeing 737.

Prayers to the victims and their families.

gwen
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:47 AM
My Husband is a Police officer right there...i am getting worried!!!!!!!!!!! he hasn't called yet!!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:47 AM
My heart and prayers go out to every emergency service person in NY today. Being a 911 dispatcher/firefighter/MRT here in CT, I can just imagine the horrors and pain they are dealing with today.

Maria
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:48 AM
Now a plane went into the Pentagon.

Another explosion to the Pentagon.

Orders have been issued to evacuate the Pentagon.

What the hell is going on?????

M. O'Connor
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:49 AM
OMG--they are saying a plane was crashed into the Pentagon....

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:49 AM
Barb, I've never been much of a praying person, but I'm praying for your husband!! As a member of the family in blue my prayers are with all the NYPD and NYFD

Van Teal
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:50 AM
and is being evacuated!

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:55 AM
All aircraft traffic nationwide has been shut down. Some Palestinian group is now claiming responsibility

gwen
Sep. 11, 2001, 07:59 AM
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I am getting really worried but I know he is doing his job and helping people. He must be too busy to call. Thank you so much!!!! Prayers are needed for everyone involved!!!! This is a horrible thing!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FairWeather
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:03 AM
The entire World trade center is GONE

Always,
FairWeather
Stall rest is over! Hand walking may begin...but don't forget the stud chain over my nose :P
http://www.fairweather.bizland.com/entrance.html

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:04 AM
The south building has completely collapsed!!!

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:07 AM
They are now saying it was a THIRD plane that just hit and took down the south tower....will this ever end????!!!!!!!

M. O'Connor
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:07 AM
South Tower of the WTrade Ctr has collapsed

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:09 AM
The plane went into his office, he is cut but okay and his office mates are badly burned.

VTrider
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:09 AM
THank God!

Flash44
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:14 AM
Retaliate or not? I'm horrified and furious.

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:17 AM
possible 2nd explosion at the pentagon

Lisamarie8
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:17 AM
To many loved ones to worry about. I can't believe the carnage, and I'm terrified what this will lead to.

--My most accommodating strength is my willingness to humiliate myself

PaulaM
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:18 AM
You guys in the States have my thoughts and prayers today. What a senseless act.

Flash44
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:23 AM
I'm just so mad. As imperfect as the US is, no country has been such a haven for immigrants. No one in this country can go back more than a few generations before finding a relative that came here from another country. It's a country comprised of individuals who came her during the past 200 years from other countries. God help us and the world.

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:24 AM
Well said Flash

hifi
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:24 AM
I am sure your husband is just really busy helping folks. The telephones are undoubtly disrupted. Good luck and my prayers are for you and all the people who are involved.

If you can't beat 'em, try harder.

Elghund2
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:26 AM
I just found out that my brother had left the WTC on his way to the office ten minutes before the first plane hit. My sister in law is hysterical.

It may not be the christian attitude but we need to hold the country that these people are from responsible and make life so horrible for them that they will never think of doing this again. I almost lost a brother and am furious. I can't imagine what people who lost loved ones are feeling right now.

Maria
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:28 AM
All planes heading to the US are being diverted to Canada.

A car bomb has been reported to have gone off infront of the State Dept. Unconfirmed.

Another plane is in the air heading towards the Pentagon. Not sure if it is a terrorist. But another plane is heading that way.

Lisamarie8
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:30 AM
around the White House as well. They evacuated that. They're evacuating EVERYTHING!

I want heads.

--My most accommodating strength is my willingness to humiliate myself

Lori
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:31 AM
OMG what is happening to this world? ! ?

Several explosions are happening in DC! One of the WTC buildings has collapsed, a car bomb outside the State Dept and ON AND ON!!!

We are under terrorist attack according to President Bush....

"Come hup you hugly beast!" Surtees

kissandtell
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:32 AM
Car bomb outside the State building.... i would just like to say WHAT THE HELL WERE THESE PEOPLE THINKING???????? And although im not a religous person, my thoughts and prayers are with all those people.

** Ashley and a big fannie named Annie **

Lisamarie8
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:34 AM
the second building just collapsed

--My most accommodating strength is my willingness to humiliate myself

Midge
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:35 AM
Well, both towers are gone and ABC is the only network I can get on my TV...

Whoever is responsible must PAY! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Sep. 11, 2001, 08:38 AM
My mom just called me on my cell phone and woke me up to tell me this. This is horrible. So basically there is a war going on in the US. And does anyone know who these terrorist are? And basically all of Manhattan is on fire... I'm watching CSPAN right now and all these people are calling in and blaming Bush for this.

Rest in peace...

* Fiero *

jsg24
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:41 AM
Please keep us updated. I am in the UK at work and can't get to any news web sites!

Flash44
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:41 AM
I'm going to lock myself in my office and cry for a while so I don't scare my son.

HelloAgain
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:41 AM
Just to clarify, for non New Yorkers, NYC tv stations broadcast from the top of the south tower. TV Service is now completely disrupted. I grew up in NYC and went to high school just up the road in Battery Park. I cannot describe the shock and horror I feel right now, despite the fact of being safely tucked away in the midwest.

Please everyone pray for the families of the WTC employees, more than 30,000 people worked there. And of course of the all the emergency service personnel, NYPD, NYFD, EMS, Paramedics. I'm sure the National Guard will be on the scene shortly as well.

Eglinton
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:52 AM
please keep us updated thankyou so much to all of you for updating us it is impossible to get any info the internet is backed up...I am shaking and horrified .... my prayers go out to all of you.

Black Market Radio
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:02 AM
That is IT! I can't believe this. My uncle that I have never met has just come in last night, thank goodness he had a flight last night. But my aunt was supposed to come tonight and now I may not get to meet her. My heart goes out to all those who have lost loved ones. But we all have lost something in this, and I hope we find who is responsible and that Bush does 'em in. Wish I was still in the Marines, I would go squash them myself!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

My 1966 Chevy Truck kicks butt!!!

Flash44
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:03 AM
I suggest everyone take a few minutes and form a plan of action if you have to evacuate or whatever. Where is your closest bomb shelter? Maybe pack a quick bag if you are home.

joliemom
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:05 AM
God bless those New Yorkers and Washingtoninans who are now helping in this tragedy. May I say, on behalf of NYC, that New Yorkers are the greatest, gutsiest people on the earth. I know there are many, many living angels among them now helping clear paths for ambulances and nursing the wounded. Never forget, you can't defeat The City.

smc
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:09 AM
thank you jolie we new yorkers do get a bad rap sometimes!!

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:14 AM
Gwen/Barb

I just walked across the street to my neighborhood church and said a prayer for your husband. I've never been a very religious person before but I prayed for everyone...the police, fire, citizens..all the innocents in this horror.

Flash44
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:18 AM
All planes that were airborn are now accounted for, so hopefully this madness is over.

gwen
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:19 AM
I dont know how to thank you enough!!! You are a truley wonderful person. I just talked to him a few minutes ago but he couldn't talk. he just let me know that he loved me and that he was ok!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M. O'Connor
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:23 AM
Thank goodness, Gwen! Here in Southampton we are numb--so many of our neighbors are NYC residents...in fact, I can only see one house from my house that doesn't belong to a "city" dweller....we are caretakers for a New York family, needless to say we are very anxious....

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:24 AM
Barb,
Thank God he is safe!!!! When he gets home tonight, hold him and tell him you love him. Oh, One main word of advice...make sure once all this is over that he get's to a Critical Incident Stress debriefing. It will help him start to deal with the horror's he is seeing today.

M. O'Connor
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:24 AM
brilyntrip and I, who both live in Southampton, were speaking on the phone as the second tower collapsed...the phone went dead! I called her right back and it worked--how unnerving!!!

Flash44
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:37 AM
Someone just told me that 2 planes are still up there?

Velvet
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:38 AM
That's what they are currently reporting.

smc
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:38 AM
still trying to get through to a friend in jersey. her brother works at th WTC. my heart is in my throat. i use to be able to see the towers from a hidh spot in my town. it makes me sick. i want to go pull my kid out of school but i'm trying to be brave

Elmo
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:40 AM
I'm all the way in downtown Ottawa, Ontario, Canada and the are evacuating buildings just down the street!!!!

brilyntrip
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:47 AM
I am in shock! Yes mary an di were in fact talking and the phone did go dead ! I am now worried that my mom who lives in Watergate should evacuate but all phone lines are busy ! I am praying !

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:50 AM
All the people being evacuated out of DC are stuck, the bridges are closed, I395 is shut down and the Metro is closed.

My brother in law called to say he is okay but can't get out of the city so is going to a bomb shelter.

I am praying for everyone. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Jo
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:53 AM
SMC, be a "wuss" and take your kid out. I can't imagine going through this without your family. My mom lives and works in Boston and I was freaking out, but she's trying to get out of the city. I'm sure you won't be the only parent.

Magnolia
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:57 AM
Make sure if you evacuate that you can provide for your precious animals. I know we love them like our kids here...Remeber, plenty of food, water. Don't leave them tied up, if they are indoors, fill a bunch of foods and waters - if you are staying at a shelter it may be a while before you return. Oh, make sure they also have some kind of tags on them. I'm just sick....
Over 150,000 lives lost at this point - moms, dads, sons, daughters /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Ride it Like You Stole It...

smc
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:57 AM
my mom just stopped by and gave me a hug and yes i am being very wussy because my husband works at the schools and i'm still a wreck! hey brilyntrip i hope your mom is oaky

starlady
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:01 AM
I'm going crazy here in Israel, there are NO phone
lines to the USA--I even tried calling friends in
California and Colorado so the problem has to be
in the trunk lines going across the Atlantic--and
my brother works at 237 Park Avenue in Manhattan,
and I think I saw the WTC out of his window once--
does someone know NYC and can give me an idea
of where 237 Park Avenue is in relation to ground
zero? This BB is my only contact with north
america now!! prayers--s.

Nickelodian
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:03 AM
Oh Starlady, hang in there!!!

5 months down........6 to go
(OMG, I totally missed month 4!!)

Daphnes hair dresser
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:05 AM
Gwen, thank goodness you have heard from your husband. I pray for everyone today. What a horrible, tragic set of events for the whole world to deal with.

HelloAgain
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:07 AM
237 Park Ave is located about 47th street, midtown, approximately 2 miles from WTC. A safe a place as any. Plus, there are few very tall buildings in that area.

Tin
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:09 AM
I'm downtown Ottawa, Ontario as well and we are getting alot of nervous people! Many evacuations

Prayer to everyone

dodgegrrl
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:10 AM
everybody: what about our Inwhycee?

LoriO
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:10 AM
Starlady, 237 Park Ave is a fair ways away from the WTC so your brother should be ok. If you want to look for yourself go to Mapquest.com and type in the address. The zip code for that part of Manhatten should be 10017

Daphnes hair dresser
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:10 AM
A report just came in from the Middle East. All the Arabs are celebrating in the streets!!!

Portia
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:12 AM
Starlady -- THe trade centers are on the edge, near the Hudson. You can see them from much of Manhattan, but they are -- were -- actually a bit away from the big buildings in the rest of Manhattan. They collapsed almost straight down, and one of the interviews they just had said that the deaths are limited almost exclusively to those two buildings.

We cannot minimize the extent of that loss of life, I'm afraid, but the vast likelihood is that your brother is OK.

emmy
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:12 AM
my dad is a pilot for American Airlines and he has been flying out of Boston a lot. He also flys 737's. Anyways he is in Alabama. Not sure how he will get home.

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:14 AM
Our office in Granite City, IL just called to say that a tanker truck was stopped from entering an Air Force base and the driver took off running. Bomb detection is on the scene now.

Are we getting the third wave now?

HelloAgain
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:14 AM
Please, I call upon everyone not to paint "arabs" with one brush, we have many allies in the area (Israel, Egypt, Jordan, for example). Do not let terrorists and extremists bring you to their level.

wtywmn4
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:14 AM
Oh Starlady, I don't know where the address is compared to ground zero. But many have been able to leave the area safely. I pray your brother is one of them. Hopefully you will be able to speak to him soon.

They have closed San Francisco's public buildings, and the Pacific Stock exchange. Our bridges all have had the personel removed, public schools are closed....CHP is now at all the bridges...It is so terrible and our prayers are being said for all.....

starlady
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:15 AM
THANK YOU FOR THAT INFORMATION!! Now maybe i can
hold on until the phones come back without having
a breakdown.

But you know, I feel selfish for feeling relieved;
I can still pray and hope that my brother is ok,
but a lot of people have already heard bad news--ugh, it's too awful, hug your kids and your horses
everybody!!--s.

HelloAgain
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:17 AM
is there any clarfication on reports out of Cleveland that one person alluded to?

Flash44
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:20 AM
Starlady, are people really celebrating? What is the feeling over there?

Jo
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:22 AM
Flash, I just saw news footage of people celebrating. I can't imagine. It makes me so angry. All this worry and grief and people are happy about the devistation. /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Nikki^
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:22 AM
I saw the whole thing on TV this morning. At first I was on the WC and they were talking abput plane delays and CNN was taking about sports. I saw the building fall on TV. This sucks. Here in Alabama the bases are locked down. This is scary!!!!! My ex is in the AF and I'm affraid for him too.....

We all have to thank Bill Clinton for downsizing our Military!!!!!! This is worse than Pearl Harbor!!! HISTORY IN THE MAKING!!!

http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/ you can look up you Thoroughbred's Pedigree with photos 9 Genrations back!
Men come and go, but my horse will always love me!

redhorse05
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:22 AM
Please, I call upon everyone not to paint "arabs" with one brush, we have many allies in
the area (Israel, Egypt, Jordan, for example). Do not let terrorists and extremists bring
you to their level.


Good points made by helloagain! I hope the rest of the country can refrain from hysteria in this area too. WW3 scares the hell out of me!

~Odin

Chaser
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:24 AM
I've only just been able to get on the internet. everything was clogged up.

This is terrible. I can't ever recall being so shook up by such a happening. My thoughts are with you all.

I can't help thinking about the passengers on those planes. I hope there is nothing more to come.

But who would do such a thing? How can any perceived injustice justify this? There must have been so many people involved in planning this and carrying it out. It is beyond belief that not one of them would say, "this is too much".

I hope that whoever did this is found out.

Ghazzu
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daphnes hair dresser:
A report just came in from the Middle East. All the Arabs are celebrating in the streets!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm afraid I don't believe that everyone is celebrating. I have Arab friends whom I am sure are as shocked and horrified as I am.
The perpetrators of this act are no more representative of the majority of Arabs than Timothy Mc Veigh is of you.

Daphnes hair dresser
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:28 AM
Down town Toronto is just being closed down.

moose
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:29 AM
Does anyone know if Camp David was actually hit? It was reported briefly and then vanished from reports.

Daphnes hair dresser
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:33 AM
I only heard that Camp david is under guard. I don't think the president is there.

Jo
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:34 AM
Pres. is en route to Washington (?) on Air Force One.

Scratch. They don't know where he is. (Well, I'm sure they KNOW, but aren't talking.)

Winglet
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:37 AM
and three of my coworkers went to the recruiting center at lunchtime. They are patriotic, though I fear that they make this decision in haste and anger. One of their sisters worked in the Center, and was two floors below the crash. She made it out, but broke her leg as the building collapsed around the area. I agree that those responsible must be held accountable, however we must be cautious to avoid becoming terroristic ourselves, and we cannot destroy possibly the only planet in the universe capable of sustaining life in the process of protecting ourselves. We as a planet have an incredible gift, and we cannot throw it away by destroying each other. /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

JoHn (WiNgLeT)

"A horse runs with his legs, competes with his heart, and performs with his soul."
-Tesio
Look at my ultra cool site! www.geocities.com/winglet18 (http://www.geocities.com/winglet18)

HelloAgain
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:42 AM
in case anyone was wondering, Clinton was on vacation (or business, not sure which) in Queensland, Australia. Where he is now under lock & key apparently.

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:45 AM
President Bush was in Florida, Clinton is out of the country.

HelloAgain
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:46 AM
right BUSH en route from Florida, to undisclosed command center in DC.

CLINTON tucked away in Australia.

thank goodness.

Winglet
Sep. 11, 2001, 10:56 AM
And is to make a statement any moment

JoHn (WiNgLeT)

"A horse runs with his legs, competes with his heart, and performs with his soul."
-Tesio
Look at my ultra cool site! www.geocities.com/winglet18 (http://www.geocities.com/winglet18)

starlady
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:09 AM
I can promise you that no one is celebrating in
Israel! --s.

ljo
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:11 AM
Not ONE of us will not be affected by this National tragedy.
Lets band together to help and support everyone who has been victomized by this act of terrorism.
God help us.

[This message was edited by ljo on Sep. 11, 2001 at 01:23 PM.]

Blue Devil
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:13 AM
Please let us know how you are doing.

I'm thinking of JR*, Weatherford, AHC, NewYorkCityRider, and everyone else who may live there or be visiting.

Jr* how are the children of NYC coping?

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

Flash44
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:14 AM
Thank you, Ghazzu. Emotions are running rampant. Good thing we're not world leaders.

FirstCry
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:20 AM
What a horrible horrible day. They have closed down all Monroe County offices here as well as most of the schools and afterschool activities.

Whoever did this will be punished.

My uncle works in WAshington and he is OK, heading home to VA. It will probably take him several hours to get there, if he even can get home. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

My prayers go out to all in NYC.

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group of North America

Daphnes hair dresser
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:21 AM
By Predient Bush not going back to the White House, it symbolizes a victory for terrorism!

RumoursFollow
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:22 AM
My trainer's husband works in the pentagon. I havent been in touch with anyone at the barn and I do not know where he was located. Please pray for him and all the people there.

Tin
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:22 AM
Just heard that Ottawa U has been evacuated and some of downtown. Mostly due by a stange package being delievered to the embassy. Scary considering Ottawa U is only a 5 min walk from where I am right now.

Prayers with everyone, this should be over by now (though will never be forgotten)

Daphnes hair dresser
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:24 AM
Do you think that, " the powers that be," will actually be able to do anything?

Weatherford
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:27 AM
I am in Ireland in a cyber cafe - having spent most of the afternoon in a bar drinking tea watching the TV. Am going to a friend's house to watch more TV, as I do not have one.

Thanks for you concern - send your prayers to those closer to the situation. I may find a service tonight, and am definitely looking for a blood bank.

Kirsten
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:41 AM
Tin, I can't believe they're evacuating the university. This is nuts. I've been on the phone all morning... I was supposed to fly to Spain today. Obviously, plans have changed.

I just want to ask a question to those who decry Clinton's downsizing of the American military. How do you think this tragedy would have been averted if the military was larger or better-armed? Would they have shot the passenger planes out of the sky before the terrorists could crash them? This is a horrific, mind-numbing tragedy. But the idea that more weaponry and aggressive presence will ultimately end the carnage doesn't jive with me.

Now on the topic of US Intelligence, I certainly hope they can get on it and find whoever propagated this destructive rampage. But at the end of the day, the sole blame rests with the individuals who hijacked and crashed those aircraft. As we blame leaders, religions, and countries at large before individuals, we open ourselves to blanket hatred of large groups of innocent people. When we no longer center opinions around, or hold responsibility to, an individual, we cease to have a conscience about killing innocent people for the "greater cause".

My thoughts are with the victims on this black day, and with their families.

Lisamarie8
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:49 AM
Emotions are high, hearts are crushed and souls are saddened. However, I can only hope that the intelligence of people will over ride their grief and look at this situation as the work of very EVIL men.
Could we have done something? Maybe.
Will pointing fingers and throwing accusations solve anything? Definitely not.
I'm not speaking to the people on this board, but I can only pray that ignorance, blind fear, and stereotypical accusations, do not turn this into more of a tragedy than it already is.

We discussed the same thing on JB's board and i came to this conclusion:
While I'm all about evil getting what's coming to it...and that IS what this is, pure Evil...The thought of innocents being condemned on speculation is what causes police states.

Unfortunately our hands are tied. All we can do is wait for the investigations on top of investigations to be conducted, and pray that justice is found.

--My most accommodating strength is my willingness to humiliate myself

VTrider
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:53 AM
just listening to Tom Brokaw talk to me over the radio. God bless that man.

Seven
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:57 AM
I just got home from Midtown NYC (I work in a landmark building which was evacuated as a precaution). I haven't read the posts but if you all don't know, all transportation out of Manhattan is suspended and cell phone traffic is severely limited if you are trying to reach someone (my cell phone didn't work until I reached the Bronx).

The trains are suspended and all of the bridges and tunnels are closed except for emergency transport (and I think the 59th Street and Queensboro bridges are still open to ordinary traffic).

I was lucky catch a cab driver almost immediately after the explosions and who didn't have a radio on and had no idea about the tradegy. It still took me 3 hours to go the 18 miles home. :-(( It cost me a fortune but I feel so lucky to be out of NYC. I think I can stop shaking now.

I have been able to get in touch with most of my friends who work in lower Manhattan. Some I still can't contact. :-(( I could see the smoke and fire from my offices. This is so incredibly tragic.

tle
Sep. 11, 2001, 11:59 AM
Hair Dresser... how would Bush going back to a very prominent target (basically shouting "here I am ya'll!") be better than keeping the leader of the free world safe and in protection? Even if you don't like him personally, please consider all the brave secret service and military members who protect him on a daily basis and would be putting their lives in danger. I don't get how you think that his actions are a victory for terrorism. Please explain.

IMHO, all standing US flags need to be lowered to half mast immediately... for the heroes and the victims.

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

moose
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daphnes hair dresser:
By Predient Bush not going back to the White House, it symbolizes a victory for terrorism!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think he's going back just yet since it's been reported that the plane that crashed in Pittsburgh was meant to crash into the capital. A prayer should go out to the crew (and it's passengers) or whoever thwarted that attempt.

Seven
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:02 PM
Okay they just announced that the trains and bridges (going OUT only) are being reopened. Thank god. Now others can get home too.

Jumphigh83
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:05 PM
Can you imagine the thoughts that pilot had before ditching the plane in Pitsburg?? I just can't imagine being in their shoes feeling what they must have felt...Godspeed all the victims and God help all their loved ones.....

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Jo
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:06 PM
Jumphigh, do you think that the people on the plane knew what was going on back in NY and DC? Or did they just think that the plane was being hijacked with no clue of the other events?

dodgegrrl
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:08 PM
Daphnes Hair Dresser isn't the only one upset with President Bush right now. If anyone is interested, Bush spent last night in the ICU of a hospital that my friend works in. Her EKG training at work. Don't know exactly what was wrong with him, but she said he may have had a cold?!? The entire hospital was on alert for him, and she said there were so many armed SS men that it was totally unreal. GB spent last couple of days on Longboat Key, which has only bridge access and was totally secured/off limits.

Anyway will spare you a lengthy go-on about Bush, except to say---Commander in Chief?

tle
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:14 PM
I'm not a Bush fan either, but in light of the tragedy/attacks, the worst thing for this country is to divide itself further. You may not like him, but he is the President.

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

AHC
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:17 PM
Vt, you know I agree about Clinton as a stronger leader, although in a time of national crisis like this, I'd like to give the other guy the benefit of the doubt. However, I thought he was going to talk to the country again at 12:30 and it's after 2 and no words from him yet.

moose
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:18 PM
This is hearsay, but there was a report that passengers with cell phones were able to communicate some bits of what was going on one of the planes.

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:23 PM
And really hope he doesn't describe the terrorists as "Those folks" again.

We have an open society, it is difficult to imagine how we can live with the freedoms we so enjoy and still prevent an occurance like today from happening on level of such magnatude.

I, for one, will never complain again about getting to the airport an hour and a half prior to a flight or of having my bags inspected thoroughly.

Hindsight hopefully will lead to a means of prevention. Our nation mourns.

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:27 PM
Not quite certian but I think that the SS doesn't do more than bodily protect in situations of National Emergency where the President's movements are dictated by an unplanned occurance.

They do have several teams that scope out various locations in advance of Presidential visits and have contingency plans ready for emergency situations but I would not say that the Secret Service tells the President where to go. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HelloAgain
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:29 PM
according to CNN, a passenger in the bathroom of the crashed Pittsburgh plane called 911 and reported being hijacked. They had him on the line until the crash. That's what they just reported on CNN.

Glimmerglass
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:29 PM
Engineers shocked by towers� collapse

By Blair Kamin
Tribune architecture critic
Published September 11, 2001, 12:18 PM CDT

The World Trade Center, a symbol of American economic might, survived one terrorist attack in 1993. It was designed to withstand the impact of a jet, but both its towers collapsed this morning after planes rammed them.

The structural engineer who designed the towers said as recently as last week that their steel columns could remain standing if they were hit by a 707.

Les Robertson, the Trade Center�s structural engineer, spoke last week at a conference on tall buildings in Frankfurt, Germany. He was asked during a question-and-answer session what he had done to protect the twin towers from terrorist attacks, according to Joseph Burns, a principal at the Chicago firm of Thornton-Thomasetti Engineers.

Burns, who was present, said that Robertson said of the center, �I designed it for a 707 to smash into it.�

havaklu
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:31 PM
I'm listening to a man who was in the 2nd tower talk about it - He was with his wife on 78 WTC2 getting ready to evacuate - and they were told the 2nd building was "safe"

He went up to his office on 81 then the second plane hit -

He hasn't found his wife...

This is worse than Pearl Harbor IMO - because they hit civillian targets filled with innocent people.

My prayers to anyone who has friends and/or family in the target areas - I hope they are safe.

AHC
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:31 PM
Have heard the possibility that the towers were laced with explosives to help cause the collapse. This was on the radio, but like many other reports, it's just hearsay right now.

Cactuskate
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:31 PM
Well I'm not a real big Bush fan. Just yesterday I was ranting about his illegal alien position, calling them "guest workers" OMG.

But today I have to put all of that aside. Today I pray for President George Bush and that he be given the strength and guidance from all of his cabinet members to make this situation right with the world.

It is at a time such as this that it is most apparent, not just one individual makes our government work. Please God grant them all the strength to go forward through this horrible time.

What comes to mind now is on all of our coin and currency and hopefully holds true,

IN GOD WE TRUST.

"The older I get, the better I used to be."

levremont
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:39 PM
I am married to one. I cannot believe that some of you have nothing better to do than to second guess what Bush,YOUR PRESIDENT, wherther you personnally voted for him or not is doing in such a terrible time. My father flew to NYC this morning for business, my brother and his wife live in Manhatan and work in the Rockafella building they are ,Thank God, all ok. This is a time to unite as a country, don't you realise that to second guess Your President in this time is to show weakness? I am certain that if you all know so much better than Bush and his people what he should be doing YOU MUST HOLD AN VERY IMPORTANT POSITION IN THE GOVERNMENT, RIGHT? Come on don't think you know better until you are in his shoes, are you running in 2004?

tle
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:41 PM
I didn't vote for Bush, and don't really care for the man at all... but AS PRESIDENT he deserves our respect and support. The absolute worst thing we can do as a country is to further divide our resources and energy.

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

Dolce Vita
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:44 PM
My Uncle's lawfirm is about 1/2 a block away from the Pentagon. He got back to his apartment, but he's stuck in the city. My Grandmother, who rarely drives, lives about 5 miles away from the Pentagon and she was out in DC today at the DMV. My Mom was panicing because she couldn't get ahold of her but all is fine now. My Dad works in the Respotiory Care department at Fair Oaks hospital, and we've only talked to him once today at about 10ish. They had just had an Emergency meeting, and were expecting a code orange to be called soon. He might have to go out to the Pentagon /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif. My neighbor's husband is a piolit for American and she was horrified because his plane was in the air. It was coming from Germany and landing at Washington. His plane was one of the 22 International flights still in the air. He landed safely in Nova Scota about 30 mins ago. Thank Goodness.

My thoughts and Prayers are with everyone and their famlies. What a horriable horriable thing!

.:*Chelsea & Sonnet (http://dianecrump.com/default2.cgi?Function=Display&Type=horsepage&Section=warmbloods&Horse=0632&Page=template) *:.
*But we can't forget Kudos - The wonder pony!*

moose
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:47 PM
This is just insanity that civilians should be used to kill civilians, particularly in NYC, which is one of the greatest melting pots of all types of people, anywhere. Just madness. My heart goes out to anyone around or near these sites.

So far I don't think anyone has been able to truly claim responsibility. Amazing that this kind of destruction is still facelss.

RumoursFollow
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:55 PM
Trainers husband is at home and OK. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I just thought I'd add that I'm really impressed with Mayor Guiliani and the coolness with which he is handling this crisis. There should be more people like that around.

palindrome
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:56 PM
I really cannot believe this. My English teacher's nephew works (I guess worked) near the top of one of the World Trade Center buildings. She hasn't been able to contact him, so she's unsure as to whether he made it - but I saw the videos of the towers collapsing, and I can't imagine how anyone on the upper levels could have gotten out in time. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif My mom's good friend adopted an eight-year-old girl from China just ten days ago, and lives quite close to the WTC. I would think she's okay, but there's no way to know right now. Like someone else said, what is the world coming to? This is just unbelievable, not to mention tragic and devastating. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Jo
Sep. 11, 2001, 12:57 PM
RF, I just was saying that to a friend of mine. His press conferece was great -- calm and informative.

gwen
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:00 PM
My husband (cop in NYC) just called me again and said it is unreal what it looks like in the city. He says people are just walking around no knowing where to go and they are covered in dust and are really upset. He heard that there is an estimated 10,000 in NYC dead. Unreal. I will be sleeping alone tonight but I thank god that he is alright. But he did say a number of police officers and firefighters died while trying to rescue people from the WTC. My prayers go out to everyone...

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Midge
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:05 PM
AHC, my husband is a fireworks and demolition fanatic! (You can take the man out of the Army... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If it blows up, he loves it!) Therefore, I have watched more fireworks shows and demolition shows than one would believe humanly possible and have been a (unwilling) student of explosive techniques. That said, at least the second building seemed to fall in a manner consistent with a typical result of explosives at the base of the building, to get it to fall. The tops of the buildings generally do not add to the structural strength of the bottom. But, demolition experts generally do not take a building down by slamming into it from the top, so it is all speculation...

havaklu
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:06 PM
they are playing "hopscotch" with the president.

He went from FL to LA and is now in Omaha. My guess is that they will let him make a statement and move him again.

Guilliani (sp) was impressive - his comment how even this will not stop NY and democracy really got me.

[This message was edited by havaklu on Sep. 11, 2001 at 03:16 PM.]

havaklu
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:08 PM
I wondered about that - watching how those buildings collapsed looked just like a planned Demolition

It gave me chills...

second chance
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:09 PM
from 9:45 AM to 2:30 PM our entire school watched the happenings. You have to wonder how good airport security is these days. Nato has stepped in now to do some stuff. Its the first day in history that all the MLB games are cancled. This is soooo scary... everybody at my school is in shock about what happened. Many people don't feel safe, my teachers are worried about driving out of their driveways now to go to work in the mornings.

Even though we are in New Hampshire, We are not to far from Boston. Now CNN is saying that 260 peole are dead.

My hopes and prayers are out there with people who may have victims from this horrible thing that has happened.

Hound Dog Diaries
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:23 PM
Our school listened to the radio for about an hour and a half this morning, then broke into groups to discuss (very typical of my school). Many of my classmates were in tears, both out of fear for what may happen next and out of sympathy for those people in New York and DC. My father is in NYC this week, and was supposed to be working in the WTC, but was in a meeting at the time of the crashes. He is safe now, and is staying in a hotel room with a bunch of other people from work, but we have no idea when he'll be home.

It is a terrible terrible tragedy that someone would do this, especially to so many innocent people that are (were) trying to make a living.

Mom wants heads to roll. My heart and prayers to out to everyone involved and their families.

Kachoo
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:23 PM
This morning, my best friend called me from Florida to tell me the news, and I found it so hard to believe that for a solid five minutes, I accused her of making a cruel joke. Unfortunately, it was all real - I turned on CNN and was horrified to see New York looking like Belgrade or something. I honestly don't know what to say. To anyone who was somehow involved in the craziness or have friends and family who were, you have my best wishes. I wish you could see how much empathy people have for you guys right now - I just spent two hours sitting on the floor of the library at the U of C, where they had two TVs set up so that people could watch the news. Most people were close to tears and are surely sending their prayers to our neighbors to the south. I'm going to call around to see if any hospitals or drives up here will be sending blood down to the trouble areas. If so, I'm there.

Cheers,
Susie
http://www.kachoom.com

"Laugh at yourself first, before anyone else can." ~Elsa Maxwell

flirt
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:33 PM
it's so sad! i'm watching it on T.V right now! and all throughout the school day they were givin updates over the PA system and in some classes they were watching it on TV or listening to it on radio's and also they had TV's in the library for people to watch during lunch and spares....It's so so so very sad! i hope everything ends up ok and that this doesn't turn into soemthing bigger.
My prayers and condolences go out to everyone in the states who is going through this

Whistlejacket
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:37 PM
Thanks Kachoo.

I have to say, that as a U.S. citizen it is very helpful to hear the support of citizens and leaders of other countries.

Hopefully, all countries that value of democracy and civility can form an effective alliance against such henious acts.

Thanks again.

dodgegrrl
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JulieMontgomery:
Your comments were quite well put.... unfortunately the posters who most need to take your post to heart most likely will breeze right over it...... in their haste to have the last word on President Bush.

Even in a national crisis, you always have those who would be masters of nitpicking and semantics. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am clear in the fact that my job description will never include the phrase "Leader of the Free World, " however, if nitpicking means a need for more than 4 minutes of statements by President Bush, GET ME TO SOAPBOX.

Does anybody have any updates on Jr* or Inwhycee?

gwen
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:40 PM
I just found out that my brother in law ( a pilot for American Airlines)just flew out of new york OVER THE WTC LAST NIGHT!!!!!! He is now stuck on Florida....thank god he wasn't flying this morning!!!!!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kachoo
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:41 PM
I just called the Red Cross and Rocky View Hospital, and both said the same thing - they gave me the number for Canadian Blood Services and said that they're so inundated with calls that their lines have gone down! So many people want to give blood that the earliest I'll be able to donate is tomorrow!

Thanks Whistlejacket - I totally agree.

Cheers,
Susie
http://www.kachoom.com

"Laugh at yourself first, before anyone else can." ~Elsa Maxwell

ClipClop
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:44 PM
When I heard the news this morning in the form of an e-mail I thought it was a joke... /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I never thought this would happen in America... and it will impact the rest of the world no doubt.

Anyone realize they are not reporting what happened to the 4th plane? Anyone else think our Gov. might have shot it down?

~Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results~

STF
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:49 PM
Do you think we will go into full war....I can actually see it happening....I am worried also!

ClipClop
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:51 PM
Can we even go to war if it was just a group of terrorists?

Can they still draft people? That is what I'm worried about

~Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results~

Eglinton
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:53 PM
just heard on the news that the RCMP escorted a highjacked plane down in Yukon (canada) I am trying to get more details...

Dunhorse
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:53 PM
This is so upsetting. I can't believe that this has happened. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I really don't want a war to happen, but it may be inevitable.

I just got back from my college class. They are closing everything down here in michigan. The tunnel, the airports, the bridges. Almost all of the universities and many community colleges have closed down. Even the malls are closing.

My prayers go out to the families of those injured and killed in the attacks. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

God forbid that I should go to any Heaven in which there are no horses.
~R. Graham

tle
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:54 PM
dodgegrrl... do you think that the man may be JUST a tad busy? puleeze... my job description won't include that phrase either and yes, I would love more info from Bush... but try to have patience, ok?

Yes, under the right circumstance, Congress *could* reinstate the draft.

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

Hopes And Dreams
Sep. 11, 2001, 01:56 PM
This is so awful! I cannot even put into words how I feel towards those terrorists, and the sorrow and sympathy I feel towards the victims and their loved ones. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif It is just sick. And did anyone else see when they showed the Palestinians having parties out in the streets afterwards?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif How can people be so callous and cruel as to want to take it out on innocent people!? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Its times like these that I really feel that people in general are useless and stupid. But of course, for every heartless person, there are hundreds of loving, caring people. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif I just can't believe this is happening. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Off topic: LoriO- I think I know you! Actually, I'm pretty sure. If yu are who I think, this is Alyssa from Wedgewood! How's Liz? Email me @ jmp4life@aol.com!

AlyssaC

Lucassb
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:05 PM
to live somewhere where violence like this is commonplace.

While few cities in the middle east have buildings the size of the twin towers, remember there is an entire generation in that part of the world that has grown up with continuous violence ... where family and friends are at risk of being blown up going to the market, to school, or while sitting in their own kitchens.

The total lack of regard for innocent civilian life is unforgiveable, and will certainly be met with a firm resolve to find and severely punish those who are responsible. However, I also believe that until the root causes of terrorism are eradicated, we will remain at risk for these kinds of attacks and will have to cope with potentially more devastating threats, such as the ones posed by biological weapons. Anthrax could easily kill many more thousands... and is probably easier to acquire and unleash than four commercial airplanes.

I am a native NYer and all my family still lives in the metro area. Thank God they are all safe - My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone whose family or friends have been injured or worse in this attack.

ClipClop
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:08 PM
The thing about the draft is just scary... to think that could happen again. It gives me the shivers and y'all can rest assured I will be praying long and hard tonite.

~Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results~

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:13 PM
I don't think that we need to hear plugs for a non-entity in this situation.

My money and prayers are on the people we pay to protect our interests here, not the ones who make the promises.

Trixie
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:30 PM
I work at a newspaper in Washington, DC. As far as I know, residential areas in the city are accessible, downtown areas are much harder to get to. Our offices are in Georgetown, and I go in later in the day -- I was unable to get into work today. The gridlock's kind of like when we hear the word "snow" and everybody runs.

Residents are shocked and scared. Many residents have been pointing out that when the Federal Building in OK City was bombed, fingers were pointed at a terrorist attack from Middle Eastern countries. It turned out to be a white male war veteran.

Washington has declared a state of emergency, however, they have been known to do that when it rains a lot. DC Public Schools have REMAINED OPEN and will continue to do so as far as I know. Most other schools are closed.

My immediate family, some of whom work for the government, have fortunately all been accounted for. However, we don't know the fate of many of our friends.

Everyone here is just sitting in front of their TV sets like zombies, totally terrified.

Natalie
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:40 PM
MD has declared a state of emergency. Right now, I'm absolutely terrified at the thought of a (probably nucler or chemical/biological) war. Maybe I should take my parents up on their offer to move to Europe.....

"Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow."

ClipClop
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:48 PM
It would be so much better if EVERYONE was sure of the facts. Right now, everyone is second guessing everyone... /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

~Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results~

Midge
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:48 PM
Oh!!! Is RodeoGirl still in Washington???? /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Black Market Radio
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:51 PM
When my mom and grandpa went and picked my uncle up at the airport last night, my mom was shocked and horrified that when she put her purse on the check belt, the three ladies standing there were all gabbing and ONE barley glanced over at the moniter for maybe a second and went back to talking. They were doing that with everyone, just sort of glancing but not really looking... THAT is scary!!!!!

My 1966 Chevy Truck kicks butt!!!

Midge
Sep. 11, 2001, 02:52 PM
ClipClop. YOUR country, which is YOU, has just been attacked! If you are called on to serve and don't want to, MOVE! /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

And if we shot down a plane, isn't it better than having it crash into the Pentagon, or the Capitol, or the White House or YOUR house??? /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

ClipClop
Sep. 11, 2001, 03:08 PM
Do you think I was personally concerned for myself? No, more for like my friends who may get drafted, or my cousins who are of age. God Forbid I show concern over what will happen next i:e drafting?

Do you WANT to go to war? My god, you can haul ass all you want to go blow up some people, but you will NEVER see me in line to get on a jet to go fight.

I am SOO SORRY I don't want to go to war. REALLY. How stupid am I? Im sorry I don't want to see fellow American's get blown to pieces, but DAMN THATS HOW I FEEL.

Donning my flame suit.

~Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results~

Trixie
Sep. 11, 2001, 03:17 PM
Reading the news and it sure looks bad
They won't give peace a chance
That was just a dream some of us had

Canter
Sep. 11, 2001, 03:21 PM
I've been watching CNN nonstop since 9:12am. This is incomprehensible.

CNN had a correspondent, Barbara Olsen who was on the hijacked Washington-bound plane. She actually had the presence of mind to call the FCC. And her husband. Not once but twice.
This is a horrific human tragedy.

ClipClop
Sep. 11, 2001, 03:22 PM
I just realized how jumpy my post sounded, and I wanted to apologize. You really hit a nerve there for me though, loosing loved ones is more than I can even think about right now. And yes, if it came down to 1) War or 2) Move, I think I would move. No war is worth fighting to loose your loved ones. Just my thoughts.

~Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results~

Jair
Sep. 11, 2001, 03:32 PM
Oh Canter. You've just made me almost cry at my desk at the thought of the poor husband receiving the final call from his wife like that /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif At least their thoughts were together at the end /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Nothing can express the shear volumes of loss and grief of this tragedy /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Whip 'N Spurs
Sep. 11, 2001, 03:36 PM
I'm not reading all nine pages, some I'm not quite sure what you guys are talking about now..but...

I am still in shock! What scares ME is that my MOM was supposed to be on one of the floors that was hit in two days at meetings, then flying down to DC to meet in the Pentagon. I have a friend who just moved to Long Island who's class had a field trip in NY, but she was sick and stayed home. I've already been to several prayer groups, praying for everyone, even the terrorists (sounds crazy, eh? Love all...and forgive all...). I am in disbelief that this happened. My school isn't being great about it... We still have school tom. and no tests are canceled and I have 2+ hours of homework tonight despite being exhausted from crying, praying, etc. Kids at my school that are "Christian" are blaming this on the "Rapture" and saying things to the Jewish/Muslim comunity like,"You're going to hell" which is causing some kids to transfer, and for God's sakes this JUST happened! You don't think of little things like that happening because of this, but they do. I would like to repeat what my parents said about not stereotyping... I feel sorry for those who are from the middle east or such that are going to have to deal with the racial slurs and all. Anyway, my prayers go out to everyone who was invloved in this terrible incident (sp?).

Laura & Uno
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/thoroughlybredtb/main

hobson
Sep. 11, 2001, 03:38 PM
I'm in Germany this week, and just returned this evening to Mr Hobson's parents' house from 5 idyllic days bicycling through unbearably cute countryside. When we changed trains in Cologne we heard vague rumors about something happening to the world trade center...just finished watching the CNN reports and I'm dumbfounded. Watching the reports from here, it seems like a bizarre dream, except that I can't imagine I'll be able to fly home on Friday as scheduled. To think about the people injured and killed, it's heartbreaking.

matt3443
Sep. 11, 2001, 04:08 PM
turn on channel 7... now they say that Afganistan has been bombed?!?

dodgegrrl
Sep. 11, 2001, 04:10 PM
CNN--Explosions in Kabul, Afghanistan.

TT my Dad who said that fighters are taking off from Dayton, Ohio producing sonic booms which skeeered everybody. Like we need more skeeery stuff.

Anyway, FWIW

RumoursFollow
Sep. 11, 2001, 04:22 PM
Midge- I saw RodeoGirl last week @ Clemson. She's fine. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My observations, being someone who has studied quite a bit of terrorism/political science/etc-

It is most likely, in my opinion, that this was not an attack of an entire nation. (in other words- its not Palestine) I think this because of the fact that the countries issued statements saying hey... we think this is horrible.. we send our condolences. Granted anyone can lie. BUT. In all reality it doesnt take that many people to hijack a plane. One to four at the most.. if you think about it.

The lack of security @ our airports is frightening. Why in the world can someone get on a plane with a knife of any kind? even a pocketknife. I think it is safe to say that most likely you will not need it desperately during your flight. I believe that in the next few years our country will see quite a few changes as to how easily we get on flights. Obviously, the system we had until now didnt work for us.

We have to hope that through this the country's leaders can see that HUMINT is crucial to our survival as a country and more money and resources will be put towards its betterment within the next few years.

Why were we not more aware that an attack of this kind was iminent? Threats of this kind are made fairly often. Whos to determine whats real and whats bogus? THAT is where HUMINT resources become crucial. But how do we get to the inside of it all? Practice Practice Practice.

Of course this is a declaration of war. But we have to ask, by who? It is unlikely that the major players in this act are still alive to allow for the US to stage a retaliation. Most of them probably gave their lives for their cause on the plane. So do I think they'll ever even find the people that did it? Most likely not.

That is unless it is Bin Laden. But you have to ask yourself whether you think one person could conjure up such a thing. It looks to me as though whoever did this knew of his warnings and thought that people would immediately look to him, making it an excellent coverup. He is presently known as the biggest threat to the US. But I still dont think that it was him.

Do I think its over? My gut feeling tells me yes. But then again, anyone trying ot make a big statement on the US could be planning the same thing for a week from now. Could it be that they want to make us as miserable as many of those Middle Eastern countries? Maybe so.

Jumphigh83
Sep. 11, 2001, 04:32 PM
Move to where?? Running and hiding won't stop terrorists. First it is the US then what next? Canada? Mexico? European countries? Don't be a coward. Some things (life liberty the persuit of happiness) ARE worth dying for...check out Arlington Cemetary..ask a vet....Freedom comes with a high pricetag.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Bumpkin
Sep. 11, 2001, 04:39 PM
I just spoke to my friend who is staying in a hotel across the street from the Pentagon.
She was touring the White House. with her 80 year old mother when this happened and they were screamed at to run out of the White House and get as far away as possible, RIGHT NOW!!!
When they stopped to catch their breath they heard the airplane crash.
It took them all day to walk from the White House to Georgetown and find a way back to their hotel.
They are standed there for another week and thinking about renting a car and driving home.
I am glad I got a chance to speak with her.

ClipClop
Sep. 11, 2001, 04:47 PM
I would rather live in exile with a loved one, than be able to pursue my happiness while alone.

I don't believe in war. Said and done. If I was a coward, would I be worried about my friends/relatives? I think not.

Im sorry, but I don't think anyone truly knows how terrible war is unless you have lived through it. Maybe that's why my grandfather started crying today on the phone. Or why my grandma today brought out all the old pictures of her brothers that died in the war to weep over.

It's a terrible thing, am I a coward for fearing it? Or are YOU are coward for wanting it?

~Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results~

geckoUBC
Sep. 11, 2001, 04:56 PM
This is just insane. I've been in a daze at school all day thinking about it, and I've had the radio on the whole time I've been at home. And i don't even live in the US! I can't IMAGINE how terrible it must be for those of you who live in Washington/NY area. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

Does anyone know about the casualty number, I've heard people saying anywhere from 1000 to 50,000 all day. That is just shocking. I am also praying that there will be no war. That is one of the scariest things I can think of, and if the "terrorist" was a country I can totally see the US going to war.

I never imagined that I would see such a tragedy in my life.

Aleesha

Kahlua
Sep. 11, 2001, 05:19 PM
I was in total shock when I heard about this in school. Didn't even get any real details until about 11:30 in history class. Then I get home to find out that my aunt-to-be was 2 miles from the DC explosion!!! I seriously hope that there's no war. Who knows what would happen then. Prayers to all the victims and their families. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Whip 'N Spurs
Sep. 11, 2001, 05:30 PM
The bombings in Afgblahblah (sorry I can't spell,LOL)were not from US planes or anything of the sort.

Laura & Uno
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/thoroughlybredtb/main

Blue Devil
Sep. 11, 2001, 05:42 PM
There is a summary of today's events and a call for discussion on Catchride.com (http://www.catchride.com). Just passing this on.

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

Tin
Sep. 11, 2001, 05:45 PM
left school early to watch the news. This is just awful and surreal, I can't even try to explain the feelings I'm having right now as I'm sure many share them with me.

I feel so helpless; like all I can do it sit here and wait and let what ever happen, happen. It's an awful feeling however I can't imagine actually being there or having loved ones in the NYC.

My friend was suppose to have been in NYC for the weekend and sometimes he stays there for a full week. I still haven't been able to get a hold of him, hopefully he is safe in Toronto at work.

No more fancy free borders crosses anymore, full car checks are in effect and expected to carry on for a long time even when all of this is over (if it ends). My dad works at a new station and their live by truck almost didn't get acroos the border because one of the camera guys didn't have his visa with him (they had to turn back and get it).

This is just so devistation and unbelievable, almost like I'm watching a movie. What the hell is this world coming to that we have to kill 10's of thousands of inocent people to prove a point or show dominance, I thought we had evolved.

My prayers go to Barbara Olsen's husband, her bravery helped us put a little of the puzzle together and I do believe one of her last things to say was "tell me what to do".

Winglet
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:09 PM
Imagine:
Plane hijacked
Plane hijacked
Plane hijacked
Plane hijacked
North tower hit
South tower hit
North tower collapses
South tower collapses
Pentagon hit
Plane crash outside Pittsburgh

This turned out to be a reeeeally lousy day for America. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JoHn (WiNgLeT)

"A horse runs with his legs, competes with his heart, and performs with his soul."
-Tesio
Look at my ultra cool site! www.geocities.com/winglet18 (http://www.geocities.com/winglet18)

Palisades
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:31 PM
I'm crying again just reading these threads... the absolute panic so many of you expressed throughout the day is really hitting home for me.

Thank you Supahstar, for those words... Love all, forgive all. Please, no more talk about retaliation and hatred. The last thing we need right now is more evil like that.

I will be praying tonight, as I'm sure many of you will be. I'm scared and saddened and feel very alone, but somehow it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one.

If there is any night we need to get along, this is it. Please, let's put our differences to rest and stop the arguments for the time being...

Miniwelsh
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:38 PM
it is mind boggling when it finally hits home isn't it? I kept watching television today and kept saying I just can't believe this. I pray this devestation is all that touches the world for a while - it was enough to last a lifetime.

*Behind every good woman lies a trail of men*

Whip 'N Spurs
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:47 PM
Winglet..and this day will turn into weeks, and months possibly. It's such a scary thought...

Laura & Uno
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/thoroughlybredtb/main

Winglet
Sep. 11, 2001, 08:52 PM
...is how I've heard Pearl Harbor described. This is worse. This is peacetime terrorism, war for those who can't afford war. America being the giant, assume that if it can happen to us, it can happen to any country. Now, when it is said that we are at war with terrorists, take it along the same lines as the "War on Crime" and the "War on Drugs", in that we are not fighting a specific force, but beating down the threat where it springs up. Unfortunately, this means we can only take preventative measures. We can only take action after the fact, after the drugs are in the country, after the crime has been committed, and after the bombs have gone off. This war will be fought in the hearts of every American, and it will be won in the voting booths in November when the image of Manhattan disappearing in a cloud of dust, smoke, and human misery is still fresh in our minds.

JoHn (WiNgLeT)

"A horse runs with his legs, competes with his heart, and performs with his soul."
-Tesio
Look at my ultra cool site! www.geocities.com/winglet18 (http://www.geocities.com/winglet18)

gwen
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:04 PM
My husband (police officer) is finally home. One of his friends from the police academy is missing assumed dead among others. He can't really talk about it. He'll need some time. I couldn't imagine what he went through. He's gotta go back at 3 in the morning but he's home. I cried and so did he and i hugged him for about a half hour. I cant believe this.

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Duffy
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:07 PM
Thank goodness, Barb!!! That is wonderful news. We shall keep praying for him in the days to come, along with the victims and other rescue personnel.

Winglet
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:08 PM
Hug him once for COTH!

JoHn (WiNgLeT)

"A horse runs with his legs, competes with his heart, and performs with his soul."
-Tesio
Look at my ultra cool site! www.geocities.com/winglet18 (http://www.geocities.com/winglet18)

Tin
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:19 PM
That's great Barb, let him know we care bout him too k? Tell him to be safe and thank him, he is very brave.

Sep. 11, 2001, 09:46 PM
At pearl harbor WE KNEW our enemy.
At pearl harbor not many innocent civilians... women, children, men... were injured/killed.

* Fiero *

Reginapony
Sep. 11, 2001, 09:59 PM
Hi Barb,
I am glad your husband is OK.

LoriO
Sep. 12, 2001, 07:35 AM
Barb,

Your husband was on my mind all night while I was at work. I'm glad to hear that he made it home. I looked at my officer's this morning at the shift change and thought how lucky I was to know that they are all going home safe today. My heart breaks for all those NY dispatchers who will never hear some of those voices again.

gwen
Sep. 12, 2001, 07:39 AM
You don't understand how your support helped me through the day until he got home. I don't even know you and you were there among others for me and everyone involved!!! I am so glad for the ones who can go home but the pain of loosing someone is so great, I could only imagine.

thank you EVERYONE for your support. I hope everyone is well on COTH!!!! We all have to stick together!!!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LoriO
Sep. 12, 2001, 08:03 AM
Barb,

Thank you, it means a lot to me that I was able to help you. You have my email address and phone number, if you need anything...even if it's just to talk, I'm here.

God bless the NYPD and NYFD

Magnolia
Sep. 12, 2001, 08:03 AM
The lack of security @ our airports is frightening. Why in the world can someone get on a plane with a knife of any kind? even a pocketknife. I think it is safe to say that most likely you will not need it desperately during your flight. I believe that in the next few years our country will see quite a few changes as to how easily we get on flights. Obviously, the system we had until now didnt work for us

I was wondering about that... You may not bring knives on planes. Brad carries knives in his carry-on for work (Box cutters and Exactos) They always pull his luggage at the carryon scan area and question him about the knives and generally confiscate them. (He mails them with other equiptment now!). Anyhow, apparently, there are all kinds of fiberglass knives being made now that DO NOT set off detectors. Which scares the bejeebers out of me, as they are undetectable (IE, they could get by anyone, even the most diligent security officer).
I wish to god that they armed the airline personnel so that they could be better prepared to deal with this in the future. I think that they will have to arm and train them. Sadly, whatever barrier we make to weaponry, someone will be creative enough to get around.

Ride it Like You Stole It...

lisa
Sep. 12, 2001, 08:15 AM
Uhh... I've gotten on planes with scissors either in my purse or in my carry-on suitcase. Not manicure scissors, either... It was clearly visible on the x-ray detector, yet no one said a word.

Lucassb
Sep. 12, 2001, 08:23 AM
is whether, six months or a year from now, we will complain about not being able to take on a "normal" carry on ... or park nearby ... or having to wait for hours.

Right now, I think everyone will welcome more security activity. As time wears on, however, I think it will be difficult to sustain (though I also think it will be important to do so.)

I do a fair amount of business travel and have certainly been guilty of carrying on a bag that probably ought to have been checked... or stuffing my laptop into my carry on so that I only had "2" bags in hand as I walked on the airplane. I've cut it close getting to the airport and have used a cell phone/laptop til the door was not only closed, but latched... all in the name of convenience. I hope we all can remember, as we are confronted with measures that will make life a little less convenient - the reasons why we should accept these measures with patience and understanding.

Midge
Sep. 12, 2001, 08:31 AM
ClipClop, I don't think anyone thinks war is a great thing. It is something to be avoided. There are certainly times we stepped into the doggie doo rather than keeping our shoes clean, but there are things worth fighting for.

So, here we are, attacked in the most heinous way possible and, okay, we do nothing. Now what? The whole world knows the USA is going to sit on her hands.

When we were a Colony and England was using us as a cash cow, should we have done nothing? When England decided to take us back, after we fought for our freedom, should we have done nothing?
After Pearl Harbor, should we have done nothing?

Can I come to you house, steal your horse and you will do nothing?

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 08:38 AM
Okay, this is not an issue of who I did or did not vote for, this is about behavior plan and simple.

Was anyone else offended by the fact that Bush's first press conference was at a school, he knew what is was about, and yet he had CHILDREN standing around behind him????? Am I the only one offended by this?

Also, he did he offend anyone else with his poorly prepared speech in the evening (after how many hours to make it?) where he said, "secretaries, business men and woman" as if they aren't business people? Come on. I'm NOT a secretary, but I was annoyed that they can't even write a proper speech for him, or he just threw in something stupid on this own.

Man, Tony Blair made Bush look like a dufus. Sad representation for our country, and not a very strong show right after the event first happened. It definitely didn't instill any confidence in our representation from my perspective.

Maybe I'm misdirecting my anger at the moment, but then again, with the media blitz in high gear, someone needs to get out there and let the world know that we are not going to be easy victims in the future! And they also need to point out the tragedy for the families and stop the media feeding-frenzy. Please, how many people who lost loved ones wanted to know about the bodies falling from the buildings and people speculating that they jumped? (When firefighters later pointed out that many probably passed out from the smoke and were leaning out to find fresh air.)

Okay, I'm done. I just had to vent.

Chappy
Sep. 12, 2001, 09:07 AM
Velvet:
Wow, give the guy a break! First of all, President Bush was at a school when he learned of this terrible tragedy. It only makes sense that his first comments would be made from there.

Second, I thought his speech was very well presented last night. This is a time when all Americans need to come together and support our leader and not pick apart his every word. How trivial of you to be offended. Just think of the thousands of innocent Americans who lost their lives yesterday. Makes our little problems not quite as important.

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 12, 2001, 09:11 AM
My impression of his speech presentation (Not the content) was that he looked like a Saturday Night Live skit.

Petty, but that was my first impression. I made certian to listen carefully to what he said but I agree with Velvet. He has many speechwriters and more than likely selected last nights from several choices. Too bad for him that Bill Clinton was such an outstanding orator. It must be difficult for anyone to follow that.

Goodyfourshoes!
Sep. 12, 2001, 09:19 AM
edit

ponyjocke
Sep. 12, 2001, 09:30 AM
They canceled skool today, my school is about 10 mintues from the nuclear power plant BUT the walls (of the power plant) are 7 feet thick and have been tested w/ the force of being hit by a 747 and it left a black spot so we were assuered it was safe.

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 09:38 AM
And yet, why the heck were the children standing around him? He KNEW what had happened, he could have gone to another room away from the children that had no clue about the incident, and then made his speech.

I just think there are a lot of gaffs in this one, and I think his people need to help him and he's got to stop thinking he's capable--of speeches. Please, Tony Blair put him to shame, and so did Colin Powell. It's sad that we have such weak appearing representation during a crisis.

And yes, he can't compare to Clinton...and maybe that's my problem. That man could speak! Heck, I hated Ronny Raygun and yet I think he did MUCH better. Even Bush's daddy has done a better job of instilling confidence in the American people.

Like I said, my opinion. And yet again, it's how we look to the world and how strong our leadership appears to Americans that counts in a situation like this. It's our fault for letting the two parties putting up candidates that no one could seem to make up their mind between (based on the old election fiasco).

RumoursFollow
Sep. 12, 2001, 10:16 AM
until we find out who did it. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. The US will not attack until they have hard proof as to who was responsible. They cant just go bombing everyone who has pilots that can fly a 757. As much as I'd like them to, they just cant.

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 12, 2001, 10:39 AM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I believe that everyone is allowed their impression.

I fully support the office of the Presidency, no matter who happens to be filling the seat. Comments on the ability of someone to speak effectively before a crowd or cameras have nothing to do with a persons patriotism or lack of it.

Blind faith in leaders is what has terrorist groups committing suicidal acts against other societies.

[This message was edited by Everythingbutwings on Sep. 12, 2001 at 12:55 PM.]

levremont
Sep. 12, 2001, 10:43 AM
Don't you think that in some instances there is no protecting the children from the news? You can stick your head in the sand all you want but the children of America can deal with it, they won't have a choice, they are not as weak as you think and WAR cannot be hidden from them.
HE is your President right? Either stand united behind him or do not call yourself an American!!!
If it is more important to you that your President be able to give a speach that is to your liking, tell you what you want to hear in a manner that you like , sure Clinton was good at that, maybe we should only elect actors, not people who can actually run a country.
It makes me sick to read your idiotic and completly useless comments! Just as I had been telling my relatives in Europe about how incredible it is to watch this country come together in such a terrible time, to see the people unite in strengh comming out of this, and then I log on and read some of these sensless comments.

Panda
Sep. 12, 2001, 10:44 AM
Can we please just support our President, who is in a situation none of us can begin to imagine being in ourselves? The House and Senate are uniting and standing behind Bush. For once we can look to them as example and pull together as a nation, rather than make it a political fight. This needs to be a time of positive support, rather than negative criticism.

Jumphigh83
Sep. 12, 2001, 10:50 AM
I sudder for the future of our country. You can NOT reason with, be "nice" too, or negotiate with TERRORISTS!!! They HATE us...their WOMEN MEN AND CHILDREN HATE us...we cannot stand for them coming into our country and threatening our way of life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness! I say, YES this IS a declaration of war. Why is it so hard to call a spade a spade? Those who take offense at the president speaking with "children" behind him..GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE...those are the same children that will be blasted out of their schools, playgrounds and churches by TERRORISTS! The president was NOT 'using" them...He happened to be there when he heard of the attacks. With "citizens" like you guys standing in judgement this country doesn't need enemies. YOU are the enemy and your incidious undermining of the unity of this great country is treasonous. GO ahead..flame me...Truth hurts.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

jl
Sep. 12, 2001, 10:53 AM
penny-ante bickering right now.
One of our rights as members of this republic is the right to criticize our leaders.
This may strike many-including me-as a trifle premature and petty. So be it.
However, to sink to the nasty level of Clinton-this Bush-that of some posters is ridiculous. Stick to the issues, please.

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:03 AM
No, not protect them, but not USE them. They served no purpose in standing behind him during a press conference that was bordering on a discussion of "war." Children have no place being in a room with our President during that crisis. THAT was what I found inappropriate.

Also, I do, as jl so kindly pointed out, have a right to my opinion. Maybe years of Vietnam, Nixon, and even Clinton have made it difficult for me to get behind anyone in office. Politicians are corrupt, end of sentence. Otherwise we would NOT be in this situation. If we managed our own country better and didn't get sucked into the problems of every other country, we MIGHT not have these problems now.

Get behind my president? Well, yes, last night when he finally said we will not tolerate terrorists, nor the people who harbor them, I was behind him. I just think he needs to listen to his staff, and think about how he is representing US, the people of America. He has a man behind him that should have been president, Colin Powell. Now there's a man who has presence, a brain, and international savvy.

In a democracy we all have a right to freedom of speech, and until yesterday, we had the freedom to travel around this country by plane, train, bus and automobile.

If this gets your undies in a tight wad, then say what you want back. That IS one of our great rights. When politicians start behaving as if their jobs are on the line at every turn, just as it is for all other Americans, THEN I'll get on the wagon right away when something happens, but when they're guaranteed security no matter how much they mess up, I'll feel free to criticize.

I just can't help but be angry and vent after all of this. JMHO

Smart Alec
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:09 AM
...there are police armed w/ automatic weapons right now surrounding the Weston Hotel nearby me in the Copley Place area of Boston. They may have found a suspect and are trying to get him. It is pretty scary...

Duffy
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:10 AM
Not to redirect this thread again or anything... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I know security is lax in airports. They have seemed to be more concerned about my jewelry setting off the machine, then questioning the metal nail file in my purse or carryon.

I've been IM'ing with a friend who travels internationally a lot. The suggestion came up that the grounds crew, in some way, shape, or fashion, could have easily been involved. Two of the planes left from Boston, with a high Arab population. One from Newark, with a large Arab population in the towns just to the north - easy job commute to Newark airport. I don't mean to jump the gun here and put the blame where, perhaps it does not belong yet...Just bringing up possibilities...

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:12 AM
As for the statement:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Thanks so much for the armchair quarterbacking - after the fact.
Real helpful.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. If I was on Bush's staff, I wouldn't have to arm chair QB, I would have made those changes BEFORE he spoke.

Brookes
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ClipClop:
And yes, if it came down to 1) War or 2) Move, I think I would move. No war is worth fighting to loose your loved ones.

ClipClop, understand your fear of loosing loved ones, we all fear this about war. However keep in mind we wouldn't have this wonderful place to live in "America" had we not fought and won WWI and WWII. Our way of life would definately be different than it currently is. No one likes war, but I do love my country and would gladly do anything I could to protect it and our way of life, including giving my life or the lives of loved ones. Some things are just bigger than we are as individuals. If you feel that you are unable to support the country in which you live perhaps it would be best that you move when you are old enough. Hopefully you will in all sincerity find a country that inspires some type of loyalty and protectiveness that America instills in myself and millions of others. This is a great country ClipClop and because of this we can freely write and say the things we do here on the BB. Perhaps without fighting wars we wouldn't have these rights. Think about the options.

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

Flash44
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:15 AM
Some time back, a news magazine (similar to 20/20 or Dateline) had producers go to airports and get hired on the spot as workers with no background check or references called. One of the producers was later promoted to some sort of security position with STILL no background check or reference check.

Duffy
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Velvet:
As for the statement:Quote: " Thanks so much for the armchair quarterbacking - after the fact.
Real helpful.
"

I agree. If I was on Bush's staff, I wouldn't have to arm chair QB, I would have made those changes BEFORE he spoke.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, for heaven's sake - GET OVER IT!!! Who the hell cares about PC secretaries/executives terminology, WHATEVER right now!?!?!?!!? I'm not sure about having the children with him during his first statement, but I certainly do NOT feel qualified to second guess our President at this time...Unless he lets the people responsible for these atrocities off in some way...

schmoe
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:17 AM
but what purpose does your criticizing President Bush serve. There are many who did not vote for him who are not using this opportunity to denounce his every action and word. In your last post, you inidicate that he was "using" the children at the school and in the same sentence that "they served no purpose." So if they served no purpose, how were they used? I don't understand your reasoning and don't understand what it is that Bush could do right now that would make you feel more satisfied.
My thoughts are with all who have experienced loss in this nightmare and for those who continue to endure not knowing.

Chappy
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:18 AM
Velvet:
Maybe you ought to run for office - you seem to have all the answers!

Panda
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:19 AM
Thank you, Duffy! I agree!

Urchin Club
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Sep. 12, 2001 12:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, indeed he cannot compare to Clinton.......

Slick Willie just might have been in the anteroom of the oval office getting oral sex while the jets tore into the WTC. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Real mature. Just when we were all getting along.

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:27 AM
That's not my plan? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Who is the real Velvet, anyway???

Oh, and to say the kids server no purpose, I meant in a way that would rally Americans. And to say then that they were being used, I meant maybe to the rest of the world to show that children, too, were being impacted by what was happening.

I feel for the victims and their families. What I was doing is what half the media was doing last night as well; critically watching what our new President was doing and how he was handling the situation. The comments on his speeches are on him because he approved of using them, and on his staff because they wrote them. To say I was comparing him to Clinton, Bush and Reagan's abilities is probably true. I think in this age of media scrutiny, we need people who can represent us well...or a staff behind them who thinks things through more throroughly (as in the second speech when they had hours to prepare). The rest of the world is watching...and their opinions DO matter in this situation as well. I think we need to not only look at how we see it, but how strongly we are represented to them...because they are the ones who created this situation in the first place.

Justtoooldandjaded Velvet

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:28 AM
I saw that clip yesterday and read it on one of the news web sites this morning. One of the undercover guys was hired as a baggage handler and promoted to scanning luggage within a few days with no training. It went on to talk about the huge security gaps at major airports other than just in boarding passengers.

I will look for the link.
Dateline (http://www.msnbc.com/news/627379.asp?0cb=-e1f22998)

Excerpt from Leah Thompson's report:

"ARE AIRLINE EMPLOYEES SCREENED?
In fact, as �Dateline NBC� reported in 1996, our producers applied for and were given jobs at two of the biggest airports in the country.
Back then at Newark Airport in New Jersey, where one of the hijacked planes departed from this morning, our undercover producer was hired on the spot, no questions asked, and no job references checked to drive an electric car. But within two days he was working security checking carry-on bags. He was given no training.
Our undercover producer wandered along tarmacs and throughout airplanes without the ID to be there. He passed some 10 other airport employees without being stopped.
Back then, at Hartsfield Airport in Atlanta, our producer was hired as a baggage handler without the required background check. Again he was free to roam on airliners."

HN73
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:31 AM
Update....

...there are police armed w/ automatic weapons right now surrounding the Weston Hotel nearby me in the Copley Place area of Boston. They may have found a suspect and are trying to get him. It is pretty scary...

This confirmed on cnn.com.

"Boston police enter the Westin Hotel where several people were taken into custody. "

"Law enforcement officials in Boston and Vero Beach, Florida, took several people into custody, sources told CNN. Heavily armed tactical police entered the Westin Hotel in Boston and went to the upper floors of the hotel on an operation believed connected to Tuesday's terrorist attacks. At least four ambulances were on the scene. "

dodgegrrl
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:35 AM
It's clear that we have women of strong mind and heart here. I am not intimidated by this, I am enjoying it actually.

I wish the strong beliefs here were echoed and fortified by President Bush. If you saw the statements of other world leaders, Blair foremost, I think you saw what I am trying to point out.

I am not intimidated by Bush, as a matter of fact, I think he would back off when confronted like I and Velvet have been---here. That's what truly bothers me.

I do not think it was appropriate for President Bush to deliver this news in the company of children. There were other private spaces available for this devastating time, without the presence of children.

I believe in the right to question whomever, whenever, however for any purpose whatsoever.

The thing that really gets me about our President is that he can do what every child does when in doubt---call the parents. His Dad had the same job, for heaven's sake. Why can't he do any better than this?

Donning Nomex firesuit from closet.

Panda
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:42 AM
None of us knows for sure how President Bush makes his decisions, whom he calls for advice, or what he is thinking. We can only speculate and guess, but we do not know. And none of us knows for sure what we would be feeling or doing if we were in his situation.

Brookes
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:44 AM
Hours to prepare the second speech? Gee I'm sure they dropped everything . . .like national security and intelligence gathering to sit down and work on this speech. Let's face it this is the most important thing. The president's responsbility (any president!) is to secure our nation from invaders, not necessarily make sure you personally feel warm and fuzzy with his personality. I would rather that he and his advisors work on the protection of our nation rather than worrying about polling points!!!

The bottom line is he is "our" president. He leads us. You don't have to like him. You however should respect the office and the man who holds it. This is a time for us to stand together not pick on our elected leaders. You are doing exactly what the terrorists want, you are allowing yourself to become a part of a divided nation. Don't let them win because you happen to not think the president is an appealing personality! He's not an actor he is a hard working American, gee just like us. He is not infallible just human and probably very very tired right now.

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:45 AM
Well, yesterday, I was wondering if part of the time he spent being shuttled to safety included a long talk with good ol' dad. If not, he should do it NOW! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tony Blair presented and incredibly strong position and said exactly the right things to allay any fears. Bush did too, but not with the strength, tact, or aplomb...which is where I've become more critical.

I missed his first speech (and saw it later in replays) and then waited, and waited, and waited for another statement--for a sign that we still had a President somewhere. I would have thought he could have somehow made some sort of statement, even via telephone, during those terrible hours when the buildings collapsed and people were wondering if there were more planes ready to come at them from the sky.

Like I've said. My anger comes partially from frustration. He could have swayed me if I'd seen a position of strength. Last night, he presented a VERY short speech that made one point I liked, that was strong. I still want more. Reagan said more. Bush said more. Heck, Clinton would have written and presented a dissertation (not that I needed that--nor that I always thought he was great our would have figured this one out). I just want to HEAR from our Pres. And I want him to be incredibly professional and STRONG to help the American people who are afraid.

Maybe the problem is we DO NOT need them to help most of us feel strong and brave...but for the few I could see wandering around looking dazed at the days events, I just wanted a well thought out statement that instilled faith in the hearts of those people that our President had courage and would be there no matter what, and that he was in touch with the pulse of America.

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:48 AM
He has speech writers that do nothing but write speeches. They are not his counsel of war.

This is NOT dividing the country, it's getting it back to normal politics. We always disagree on these things. I back him because I have to. It's democracy. It was a trade off between bad and worse...and one of them won the election.

How he manages his image is important. I DO back the office (I don't think I've stated that I don't), I just think the "man" needs to have his people help with his image so the office is better represented to the world. It CAN be improved upon, and in my opinion, it needs to be worked on NOW, while we're in a crisis, to help the American people as well as the rest of the world.

jl
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:55 AM
y'all just love flogging a dead horse,

Brookes
Sep. 12, 2001, 11:56 AM
"This is NOT dividing the country, it's getting it back to normal politics. "

Velvet, this is the point I was trying to make, normal politics are divided. This is a time for us to truly be united and not bash the president in any way. I'm sorry you don't feel he as the most powerful man in the world has an appropriate image for the job. I like it, he's calm and cool. Not a hot head.

Let's not focus on our likes or dislikes of the President, let's focus on the poor people who lost their lives and loved ones in this horrific tragedy. That is where we should be spending our energy.

Thanks for the mini debate, but even though I jumped at the chance I now realize this is not the time and the place for such discussions, in lieu of what has just happened to our country. Maybe later.

Houdini
Sep. 12, 2001, 12:01 PM
I too felt that our president's speech could have been a little stronger. I think that he represents the American people to the rest of the world. The image we want put out there is that we are strong and that we are not going to tolerate this crap. Of course he isn't an actor and I'm sure he has other pressing worries besides his speech. But he is also not the only one dealing with this. The president is a figure head. He has many many people working to help him make decisions and deal with problems. I think one of his most important roles is being a beacon of strength for the people. He needs to resore the feeling of control that the american people have lost. He needs to be the one to unite us and keep us strong. He is who we are all looking to so I do think that how he presents himself is very very important.

>>>"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken"<<<

N&B&T
Sep. 12, 2001, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JulieMontgomery:
Such a melting pot of a state..... particularly in the south part.

When we are at WEF, we are somewhat isolated out west of West Palm Beach. It's easy to forget how diverse the population is on the coast, and further down towards the Miami area.

And it's such an easy state to hide and be absorbed in because of the topography and climate, as well as the sheer numbers of people.

What's really scary is that for every one of the terrorists they do track down, there are probably a dozen they don't know about!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you elaborate on this?

Jair
Sep. 12, 2001, 12:44 PM
I'm going to wade in here a bit and give my view.... I have to agree with Houdini and Velvet that compared to the British Prime Minister's speech, Mr. Bush seemed, well, rather meek.

It was not what I as a Canadian was expecting from the President of the United States. Now that Military guy (is that Colin Powell?) boy, he made me sit up and take notice when he stated firmly that "the military was ready"!!!

Obviously there are things at work - I can't imagine what Mr. Bush must be feeling, he is no doubt in shock as well, and I guess as much as he'd like to he just can't go on international TV knowing full well the perpetrators would be watching and order the army to "kill the b*stards!". I imagine he was supposed to show as much compassion as possible too for the people involved in the tragedy.

As someone above said, he is not an actor, but I think he could have showed a bit more strength in his expression, or at least used stronger words then referring to the terrorists as "folks" /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Flash44
Sep. 12, 2001, 12:48 PM
I think that the actions going on right now are speaking louder than words. We have serious suspects and good leads in FL and MA, although the terrorists actually hijacking the planes are dead. It looks like a pretty strong coincidence that these people are linked to Bin Laden.

Please remember that this is a good time to look befor you leap. My worst fear yesterday was of a massive war. I do not want to be bombed, and there are innocent people on the other side of the ocean who will feel as badly as we do should we kill their friends and neighbors.

HN73
Sep. 12, 2001, 12:50 PM
I'm gonna write this, some of you are gonna be pissed.

President Bush is not a fabulous public speaker. Oh well. He could use a little improvement on vocabulary and word choice. We'll work on that later.

I'm just glad he's the president, and not Al Gore. There, its said.

RumoursFollow
Sep. 12, 2001, 12:53 PM
My sentiments exactly, HN73... clap clap. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

N&B&T
Sep. 12, 2001, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HN73:
Update....

...there are police armed w/ automatic weapons right now surrounding the Weston Hotel nearby me in the Copley Place area of Boston. They may have found a suspect and are trying to get him. It is pretty scary...

This confirmed on cnn.com.

"Boston police enter the Westin Hotel where several people were taken into custody. "

"Law enforcement officials in Boston and Vero Beach, Florida, took several people into custody, sources told CNN. Heavily armed tactical police entered the Westin Hotel in Boston and went to the upper floors of the hotel on an operation believed connected to Tuesday's terrorist attacks. At least four ambulances were on the scene. "<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was the post of yours I quoted a response to this post? If so, how did you happen to focus on those aspects of Florida (versus Massachusetts) mentioned in the quoted post?

Chappy
Sep. 12, 2001, 12:59 PM
My sentiments exactly, HN73!!!!!

Panda
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:04 PM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HN73
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:09 PM
NP Fisher


Huh???

I just confirmed what was posted by the person in MA, who was near the hotel.

I am just a messenger.

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:17 PM
on statements she made regarding the diverse population and opportunities in Florida

Houdini
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:21 PM
The use of "folks" stuck out so horribly. I was sitting on the couch watching these horrors and when he used the word "folks" I almost burst out laughing. I am most certainly not saying that just because he isn't a good public speaker he wont make good decisions for the country. But I just couldn't take him seriously when he used that word.

>>>"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken"<<<

Everythingbutwings
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:29 PM
Our cousin (a flight attendant with United) isn't listed as being one of the crew members on the hijacked flights.

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:31 PM
Well, I would just say that I don't think either of them (Gore or Bush) were much of a choice in the last election. Neither (my opinion only--don't get too worked up) is what we need in this situation. Maybe Cheney should step up to the plate! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Personally, I think Colin Powell is the one we should pull up. Yes, Bush is Pres and needs to talk to the people and present the front, but Colin should be working in the back with the military and presenting the strong face to the world, in his position as Secretary of State, as well.

Heck, if he's run, I would have put him in office as the first black president, hands down. Talk about a "take no prisoners" face when talking tough!

Like I said, my opinion. No use wishing for something that can't happen, but I do think Bush either needs some spin control, or he's got to get a better image consultant fast!

And now back to your regularly scheduled program...

N&B&T
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JulieMontgomery:

FL - hmmmm, that doesn't surprise me
Such a melting pot of a state..... particularly in the south part.

When we are at WEF, we are somewhat isolated out west of West Palm Beach. It's easy to forget how diverse the population is on the coast, and further down towards the Miami area.

And it's such an easy state to hide and be absorbed in because of the topography and climate, as well as the sheer numbers of people.

What's really scary is that for every one of the terrorists they do track down, there are probably a dozen they don't know about!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The report posted by HN73 mostly concerned arrests in Boston, Massachusetts. EBTW is correct, I am puzzled about those qualities of population and geography in Florida that you find so unsurprising vis a vis terrorist hideouts.

Perhaps you could explain the differences in "diversity...particularly in the south part" between Massachusetts and Florida to me? Vero Beach is north of West Palm Beach, by the way, but then again, it is located on the coast, so maybe that is what you meant?

ClipClop
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:44 PM
**Sigh**

Two wrong's don't make a right. While we sit and complain about innocents being murdered, if a single innocent life is lost in a foreign country because of us, we are just as bad as they are.

Why does the U.S feel the need to dabble their hands in everything? Maybe that's why they hate us. And trust me, they do have reasons for hating us.

All of you who are so gung-ho for war, why don't you go sign up your husbands/boyfriends/fiances' right now? Or better yet yourself? You know, because nothing is more important than being the top country in the world. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Today, while talking to a fellow student from Russia, he commented on how patriotic American's were, while at the same time we are not stupid and violent about it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Hmm... after this I tend to disagree!

~Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results~

akrogirl
Sep. 12, 2001, 01:56 PM
Velvet, I will join you in putting on my flame suit because I agree with you completely regarding the speeches by Bush and Blair. The person who has impressed me, however, (and no, I don't normally agree with his politics) has been Guiliani - he has been out there in the "war zone" and has handled the multiple press conferences extremely well, IMHO.

Lucassb
Sep. 12, 2001, 02:00 PM
From Slate, the online political commentary. I thought this was a particularly insightful article, and wanted to share it:

Slate article on Retribution (http://slate.msn.com/Earthling/01-09-12/Earthling.asp)

Duffy
Sep. 12, 2001, 02:01 PM
I agree that Mayor Guiliani has been very impressive.

Lucassb
Sep. 12, 2001, 02:06 PM
So what would you propose? I agree, two wrongs do not make a right, but I also think that wrongs should not go unpunished. Innocent people have long been victims in war, and while that doesn't make it OK, it does = reality.

I do not believe that the United States acts merely out of a desire to feel superior. Certainly we have substantial economic interests and we act to promote and defend them; this often angers other countries who seek the same advantage but who are perhaps without the ability to bring the same resources to bear in the competition. Certainly we have taken sides in certain conflicts where human rights issues have been central. Personally, I am fine with that approach and while I understand that there is a cost associated with such behavior, I also believe that isolationist behavior - withdrawing from world affairs - also has significant costs.
WWII offers a few pretty dramatic examples of that approach.

I understand you are opposed to armed conflict. What do you suggest instead?

showandtell13
Sep. 12, 2001, 02:07 PM
I can't even think about this disgusting act any longer! It is so terrifying to me to think that we actually have people this sick minded walking our streets and we don't even no about it! Watching that video of that plane flying right into the second twin tower was horrifying- it looked just like it came strait out of a movie! My heart goes out to everybody who lost a family member or friend or neighbor or fellow student and every inicent person who lost their life to these crack heads! I can not under stand how, with all the technology that we have today, that this could even happen! It is mind boggling! I can not wait until we find these idiots and punish them! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Velvet
Sep. 12, 2001, 02:14 PM
Yep! He was great under fire from the press. Especially when some reporter continually asked the most stupid question of all, "Was their asbestos in the building?" A little late to worry about that or to care at this point. What are they supposed to do, wait for suits to arrive and wash areas so they can start pulling out the victims? What an insipid question. And he gave it the attention it deserved. A puzzled look on his face like he couldn't believe the question was important at that moment and then, "We don't know."

Cheers to Guiliani for keeping a cool head and recognizing the American/human spirit that can pull the city through to the other side to find daylight again.

And did any of you see the teamsters and the cabbies running in to volunteer with finding the victims? There again, something to be proud of.

Smart Alec
Sep. 12, 2001, 02:24 PM
...3 people were taken into custody at the Westin Hotel....also 3 people were taken from an Amtrak that was stopped in RI...it was from Boston on route to Washington...they had feared a bomb in a backpack but I don't think it ended up being anything. I am at work and we have NPR on right now so I keep hearing new things. I don't know much about the people they took into custody---they just said they were connected to one of yesterday's flights by a credit card that was used to purchase tix and they are looking into it further. As far as the ones questioned from the Amtrak--they haven't said much about that either. I don't think any of these are arrests...just taken into custody for questioning.

Magnolia
Sep. 12, 2001, 02:36 PM
It is not Bush's fault the terrorists decided to attack us. Yes, his speech was bad, but my goodness you make that speech... see if you'd deliver the Gettysburg address. Luckily, we live in a nation where a group of people make decisions, not just one crazy SOB. Yep, I'd feel better if Clinton was out there making his eloquent speeches, but he ain't. The people doing the really work (the military) are still the same and will make rational decisions.

Ride it Like You Stole It...

Midge
Sep. 12, 2001, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClipClop:

All of you who are so gung-ho for war, why don't you go sign up your husbands/boyfriends/fiances' right now? Or better yet yourself? You know, because nothing is more important than being the top country in the world. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Been there, done that. And it has NOTHING to do with being the top country in the world and EVERYTHING to do with protect ourselves, our friends and our way of life.

Tell me, Clip Clop, what WOULD you be willing to fight for, if not yourself and your loved ones?

Blinky
Sep. 12, 2001, 03:08 PM
It seems to me that the people who planned and initiated the attacks did a pretty thorough job. Would these same people "leave" actual planning materials behind? Maybe I've watched too many X-Files but it could be a decoy to get the FBI onto the wrong track. The scarest thought to me is if it wasn't Bin Laden??????? Then who else??

Smart Alec
Sep. 12, 2001, 03:14 PM
I thought the same...these terrorists hit us hard and without any warning...how is it now that it seems there are cases up where careless things such as flight books in arabic writing are now turning up? It just seems too easy and too coincidental. I'm sure there is much that we don't know that the authorities do know though...I'm sure they are letting certain things become public for a reason...