Copper Bits are bad? Shocking the horse's mouth?!

[sublimequine]

So in another thread, someone mentioned that the reason horses salivate so much with copper bits, is because the copper creates an electric current in the horse's mouth, and shocks the horse, irritating its mouth! :eek:

Now I have NEVER heard this before. And I can't find ANYTHING on it online. All of my past experiences and my common sense are telling me this is not correct information, but I'd love to get some cold hard facts on it once and for all!

So, anyone hear of this? More importantly, anyone have some documented proof that this is the case? :o:confused:

[kellyb]

That sounds absurd IMO. It's not like your horse's body is coursing with 120v like your house is :lol:

[sublimequine]

That sounds absurd IMO. It's not like your horse's body is coursing with 120v like your house is :lol:

Well on my mare's naughty days it sure FEELS like she's a livewire.. :lol:

I tend to agree with you, though. I don't know where people are getting this information from.. :confused:

[deltawave]

Spontaneous generation of electricity? COOL. We have just solved the global energy crisis with horse spit. :lol:

[Equibrit]

There's one born every minute!

[sublimequine]

Spontaneous generation of electricity? COOL. We have just solved the global energy crisis with horse spit. :lol:

Where can I plug my horse in? :D

Equibrit; I don't know what you mean by that, but I'm assuming it's something nasty and mean-spirited like all your other posts in my threads. :winkgrin:

[Horseless1]

Spontaneous generation of electricity? COOL. We have just solved the global energy crisis with horse spit. :lol:

BWAHAHAHAAAAAA

I always figured those bits just tasted funny. I bet I would drool if I sucked on aluminum foil for a while (no I am not going to go try it ;) )

[sublimequine]

BWAHAHAHAAAAAA

I always figured those bits just tasted funny. I bet I would drool if I sucked on aluminum foil for a while (no I am not going to go try it ;) )

Aw come on, you can be our guinea pig! First some copper wire.. then aluminum foil.. then something that is stainless steel... :D

[Peggy]

I've heard the same thing in reference to bits that have different metals in them where the two metals are separated (like rollers on a bit). Not sure I believe that it could generate enuf current, but this is the theory:

The two metals have different "potentials" for being oxidized and one is oxidized and the other is reduced. The electrons are transferred from one to the other (remember they aren't touching in order for this to work) via a conducting solution, in this case your horse's spit. A tiny electrochemical cell in your horse's mouth! or so the theory goes.

[Rhyadawn]

I've been looking and I haven't found anything. And I asked my old coach(this could be where I got it from) and half her tackroom is copper! She has never heard of it, and I won't bother to repeat what she said about it!

Oh well, I think we have just proved once again... to each their own!

[sublimequine]

I've been looking and I haven't found anything. And I asked my old coach(this could be where I got it from) and half her tackroom is copper! She has never heard of it, and I won't bother to repeat what she said about it!

Oh well, I think we have just proved once again... to each their own!

My goodness. :eek::lol:

[zafirah]

I've sucked on a copper bit before and can testify that it doesn't shock the mouth. However it does taste funny and it will make you drool like heck. *takes bow* Tah Dah! :D

[sublimequine]

I've sucked on a copper bit before and can testify that it doesn't shock the mouth. However it does taste funny and it will make you drool like heck. *takes bow* Tah Dah! :D

And the truth is revealed!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

Now I HAVE to ask... what prompted you to do this? I'm dieing to know. :D

[zafirah]

Well.. people always say that it makes the horse drool and makes their mouth soft, etc. and I was curious, so I sucked on my pony's copper bit for a little bit. I've also been known to do this in tack shops to test the drool-factor :lol: you can't imagine the looks I get when people actually see me!

[sublimequine]

Well.. people always say that it makes the horse drool and makes their mouth soft, etc. and I was curious, so I sucked on my pony's copper bit for a little bit. I've also been known to do this in tack shops to test the drool-factor :lol: you can't imagine the looks I get when people actually see me!

:lol::lol::lol:

[millerra]

I agree w/ the "evil chem Prof" Peggy. And also agree that's probably not enough to be felt...

Interesting aside - something to NOT do if you have duallies. A friend of mine had 1 aluminum rim and 1 steel rim on her dually. Over time, there was enough of an electrochemical reaction that "welded" the two together. Both had to be pulled off and separated w/ incredible (mechanical) effort because the rims had indeed "fused".

[RAyers]

It is a galvanic cell. A current is set up in the mouth because, a our resident Chem Prof said, there are different electrical potentials. The saliva acts as an electrolyte and the difference in the oxygen/hydrogen concentration at the surface of the bit acts as charge inducers. The electrons flow along the bit, releasing Cu ions into the saliva.

This is called corrosion.

Zafirah, that "taste" is actually the small electrical charge. This is the same way you can light a light bulb in your mouth. The taste comes from the stimulation of the nerves to the taste buds (we can technically only taste 5 things and "metal" is NOT one of them).

So no, there is no electrical shock but there is electrical charge flowing through the bit.

I will be lecturing on this to my Intro to Materials class in March.

Here is a nice simple description form NASA:

http://corrosion.ksc.nasa.gov/corr_metal.htm

Reed

[zafirah]

Wow. I never knew that. I never even thought about that. Haha :D. That's kind of neat though

[sublimequine]

It is a galvanic cell. A current is set up in the mouth because, a our resident Chem Prof said, there are different electrical potentials. The saliva acts as an electrolyte and the difference in the oxygen/hydrogen concentration at the surface of the bit acts as charge inducers. The electrons flow along the bit, releasing Cu ions into the saliva.

This is called corrosion.

Zafirah, that "taste" is actually the small electrical charge. This is the same way you can light a light bulb in your mouth. The taste comes from the stimulation of the nerves to the taste buds (we can technically only taste 5 things and "metal" is NOT one of them).

So no, there is no electrical shock but there is electrical charge flowing through the bit.

I will be lecturing on this to my Intro to Materials class in March.

Here is a nice simple description form NASA:

http://corrosion.ksc.nasa.gov/corr_metal.htm

Reed

So is the copper like with people, the horse tastes the charge (or however you put it), but isn't actually shocked or put in any discomfort?

[RAyers]

Yes.

If you really want to test this, put a penny between your teeth in your mouth and touch your tongue to it. This works best if you have amalgam fillings.

Reed

[sublimequine]

Yes.

If you really want to test this, put a penny between your teeth in your mouth and touch your tongue to it. This works best if you have amalgam fillings.

Reed

Yes as in it doesn't hurt the horse, or yes as in it does? :lol:

And I don't quite see how fillings would have anything to do with it as I don't know any horses with fillings. :D

[sublimequine]

Alright, I got scientific and busted out the ol' coin purse. :lol:

I tried three coins: a "wheatie" penny (95% copper), a normal penny (2.5% copper), and kinda as my dependent variable, a quarter (91% copper, actually! :eek: ).

Here's what I did:

-First, took wheatie penny between teeth and touched tongue to penny. Sat for one minute.

-Second, took quarter between teeth and touched tongue to quarter. Sat for one minute.

-Third, took new penny between teeth and touched tongue to quarter. Sat for one minute.

Then...

-Fourth, took wheatie penny entirely in mouth, on tongue, mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

-Fifth, took quarter in mouth on tongue with mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

-Sixth, took new penny in mouth on tongue with mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

Oddly enough, I noticed NOTHING from wheatie penny and quarter. I felt a SLIGHT tingle from new penny. Perhaps because new penny was cleaner than wheatie penny? It certainly wasn't painful though, and to be honest I could hardly tell any difference at all in between all three.

MYTH BUSTED. :lol::lol::lol:

[RAyers]

Perfect! The new penny most likely was not passivated by a layer of copper oxide (the green you see on copper roofs). New pennies actually are mostly zinc and nickel.

Reed


Alright, I got scientific and busted out the ol' coin purse. :lol:

I tried three coins: a "wheatie" penny (95% copper), a normal penny (2.5% copper), and kinda as my dependent variable, a quarter (91% copper, actually! :eek: ).

Here's what I did:

-First, took wheatie penny between teeth and touched tongue to penny. Sat for one minute.

-Second, took quarter between teeth and touched tongue to quarter. Sat for one minute.

-Third, took new penny between teeth and touched tongue to quarter. Sat for one minute.

Then...

-Fourth, took wheatie penny entirely in mouth, on tongue, mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

-Fifth, took quarter in mouth on tongue with mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

-Sixth, took new penny in mouth on tongue with mouth closed. Sat for one minute.

Oddly enough, I noticed NOTHING from wheatie penny and quarter. I felt a SLIGHT tingle from new penny. Perhaps because new penny was cleaner than wheatie penny? It certainly wasn't painful though, and to be honest I could hardly tell any difference at all in between all three.

MYTH BUSTED. :lol::lol::lol:

[sublimequine]

Perfect! The new penny most likely was not passivated by a layer of copper oxide (the green you see on copper roofs). New pennies actually are mostly zinc and nickel.

Reed

So you think if the wheatie penny didn't have the green layer on it, it would've had as much 'tingle', or even more?

Here's the composition of the three coins I used:

1956 Wheatie Penny:
95% Copper, 2.5% Zinc, 2.5% Tin

2005 Normal Penny:
97.5% Zinc, 2.5% Copper plating

2005 Quarter:
92% Copper, 8% Nickel plating (approx, rounded to nearest whole #)

Who knew bit choices could be so scientific. :lol::D

[Kenike]

so, wait, you can light a light bulb just by sticking the screw-in part in your mouth? (dumb blonde moment on the screw-in part's name, and, yes, I know it wouldn't be lit like when you flip the light switch)

Cool! I have GOT to try this!

I wonder what my electric-generating husband would say to this? (Seriously, he runs power plants. He makes electricity)

[sublimequine]

so, wait, you can light a light bulb just by sticking the screw-in part in your mouth? (dumb blonde moment on the screw-in part's name, and, yes, I know it wouldn't be lit like when you flip the light switch)

Cool! I have GOT to try this!

I wonder what my electric-generating husband would say to this? (Seriously, he runs power plants. He makes electricity)

You should ask him about it! We've got the science teacher's opinion, now a electrical engineer person's opinion would have us set for life! :lol:

[Adelita]

Ew.

I work at a bank. Do you know where that money has been????????? GROSS.

[deltawave]

I thought only Uncle Fester could light a light bulb in his mouth?

Want to try something REALLY stupid? Put a 9V battery in your mouth and touch your tongue to both poles. You really WILL regret that one! :eek:

[Horseless1]

The germophobe part of me is praying that you doused all those coins in alcohol before you sucked on them! :D

(Of course that probably creates some other horrible reaction...haha)

[Janet]

Yes as in it doesn't hurt the horse, or yes as in it does? :lol:

And I don't quite see how fillings would have anything to do with it as I don't know any horses with fillings. :D Because the galvanic reaction involves electrons flowing from one metal to the other.

That is why bits with TWO metals used to be banned.

[RAyers]

Because the galvanic reaction involves electrons flowing from one metal to the other.

That is why bits with TWO metals used to be banned.

You can get galvanic cell with a single metal as well. It is called a concentration cell. All you need is a differential concentration in metallic ions. In a copper bit, there are plenty of alloying atoms (impurities). A pure copper metal is not cheap.

[Peggy]

You can get galvanic cell with a single metal as well. It is called a concentration cell. All you need is a differential concentration in metallic ions. In a copper bit, there are plenty of alloying atoms (impurities). A pure copper metal is not cheap.So the concentration cell would involve the ions in the bit and the ions in the saliva? I'm hoping that the "copper" in the bit at least has a consistent composition, even if it's not pure copper metal.

[AnotherRound]

So in another thread, someone mentioned that the reason horses salivate so much with copper bits, is because the copper creates an electric current in the horse's mouth, and shocks the horse, irritating its mouth! :eek: So, anyone hear of this? More importantly, anyone have some documented proof that this is the case? :o:confused:


Oh Yes!!! This can be verrrry serious!!! I have personal experience with this!! There is a strong electrical charge which passes up one leg across the tongue and down the other leg when a horse wears a copper bit! This is why you must be verrrrry careful not to pet a horse in the middle of his nose when he is wearing a copper bit! I always ask a horse owner first - "Is he wearing a copper bit?" then, when the owner says "Um, no..." I giggle and pet the horse on the nose and say "OK, good, I didn't want to get an electric shock like last time!"

Its why there should always be a cardiac defibrillator in a stable/barn. Once I petted a horse on the nose without asking if he was wearing a copper bit, and he was! The electrical charge was huge! I was standing on wet cement, and suddenly I went down like a felled oak. My heart had stopped! and the BO was right there, and did CPR on me and brought me back. I was lying right under the horse's head which was wearing the copper bit, when I came to, and I can tell you, his teeth glowed an eerie blue from the electricity in his mouth! You never would have even seen it if you hadn't been on the ground under neath him like I was when I woke up! He seemed fine, because he was grounded through his feet but I have never seen anything like it in my life! Scared the bejesus out of me! I almost died!!

[Janet]

You can get galvanic cell with a single metal as well. It is called a concentration cell. All you need is a differential concentration in metallic ions. In a copper bit, there are plenty of alloying atoms (impurities). A pure copper metal is not cheap. And you probably wouldn't want a pure copper bit, as it would be too soft.

But I would expect TWO metals (whether a two-metal bit or a copper penny and tooth fillings) would create a more noticable effect.

[INoMrEd]

I thought only Uncle Fester could light a light bulb in his mouth?

Deltawave - you beat me to it.... I was thinking the exact same thing. LOL

[RAyers]

So the concentration cell would involve the ions in the bit and the ions in the saliva? I'm hoping that the "copper" in the bit at least has a consistent composition, even if it's not pure copper metal.

Yes. The OH(-) and H(+) in the saliva will react with the metal releasing metal ions (M+) or metal oxides or metal hydrides.

The equation is:

M + OH -> MO + H(+) or M + OH -> MH +O(-) or
M + H2O -> M(+) + e(-) + H2O (There are several intermediate steps in this corrosion reaction but you can see where the current comes in with the free electron.)

Porbeaux did this analysis of every metal to determine it toxicity/biocompatibility.

Corrosion is not dependant on the bulk composition (as you desire, Peggy) but the local composition at the micro- and atomic scales. That is a BIG challenge to making materials for medical practices. EVERYTHING corrodes because they want to get to the lowest energy state (damn lazy atoms!).

Reed

[J Swan]

This is why tin-foil hats are sooo important. It allows the ions to discharge through the top of the hat, thus assisting in the closing of the ozone layer and reversing global warming.

Everyone should wear a tin-foil hat.

Oh Yes!!! This can be verrrry serious!!! I have personal experience with this!! There is a strong electrical charge which passes up one leg across the tongue and down the other leg when a horse wears a copper bit! This is why you must be verrrrry careful not to pet a horse in the middle of his nose when he is wearing a copper bit! I always ask a horse owner first - "Is he wearing a copper bit?" then, when the owner says "Um, no..." I giggle and pet the horse on the nose and say "OK, good, I didn't want to get an electric shock like last time!"

Its why there should always be a cardiac defibrillator in a stable/barn. Once I petted a horse on the nose without asking if he was wearing a copper bit, and he was! The electrical charge was huge! I was standing on wet cement, and suddenly I went down like a felled oak. My heart had stopped! and the BO was right there, and did CPR on me and brought me back. I was lying right under the horse's head which was wearing the copper bit, when I came to, and I can tell you, his teeth glowed an eerie blue from the electricity in his mouth! You never would have even seen it if you hadn't been on the ground under neath him like I was when I woke up! He seemed fine, because he was grounded through his feet but I have never seen anything like it in my life! Scared the bejesus out of me! I almost died!!

[AnotherRound]

JSwan, I never made that connection, but it makes sense. Great suggestion!

[Fluffie]

JSwan, I never made that connection, but it makes sense. Great suggestion!

Huh, and I was just wearing mine for fashion. Silly me. :no:

[ExJumper]

Huh, and I was just wearing mine for fashion. Silly me. :no:

Mine keeps the aliens out of my noggin.

When I chew tin foil (not a common occurance, but it has been known to happen) my permanant retainer tingles.

[Posting Trot]

I think it's the *horse* who should wear the tin foil hat when wearing a copper bit. Although I'm willing to bet that a tin foil GPA helmet would be the absolute in-thing on the hunter "circuit."

[sublimequine]

Hey folks, let's keep this on-topic please.

[Foxtrot's]

So you can now use bits with two metals in dressage??? Just call me out of date.

[sublimequine]

So you can now use bits with two metals in dressage??? Just call me out of date.

I have no clue. I don't show and I don't really ride Dressage, either. :lol:

[Fairview Horse Center]

Copper and other metals do irritate the skin to make them moist. When I want a moist mouth, I want it because the horse has a relaxed jaw, not because a metal irritated the membrane. I only use stainless steel for my horses.

[sublimequine]

Copper and other metals do irritate the skin to make them moist. When I want a moist mouth, I want it because the horse has a relaxed jaw, not because a metal irritated the membrane. I only use stainless steel for my horses.

I used to ride a horse with a bit where the entire mouthpiece was covered in copper... his mouth was always dry. The few times I rode him in a stainless steel bit, it was the same dryness. Care to try and explain that? :confused:

[Peggy]

Copper and other metals do irritate the skin to make them moist. When I want a moist mouth, I want it because the horse has a relaxed jaw, not because a metal irritated the membrane. I only use stainless steel for my horses.Stainless steel is a metal, or rather a combination of them.:)

[RAyers]

Copper and other metals do irritate the skin to make them moist. When I want a moist mouth, I want it because the horse has a relaxed jaw, not because a metal irritated the membrane. I only use stainless steel for my horses.

Stainless steel is iron, nickel, and chromium. The chromium is what makes stainless stainless. It oxidizes before the iron, forming a layer that isolates the metals.

Reed

[AnotherRound]

Hey folks, let's keep this on-topic please.

Um, excuse me, but what "topic" is that? :eek: There is no topic. This is a made up topic. Its a topic for microcephalics. That's "pea-brains" for you non-scientifical types.

The only thing mentioned horse related and with any truth on this thread is the exchange of ions between two dissimilar metals under some (not all) circumstances. Happens all over the world all the time. It has nothing to do with creating an electrical charge. There is no electrical charge in a horse's mouth, and no possiblity of one from a bit. The echange of chemical ionic charges in metal alloys are not the same as what comes out of the wall outlets and batteries.

Of course, if you make up enough $%!t, you can pretend anything.

And who died and made you moderator?

[millerra]

Ok... Well...

First, an electron moving is an electron moving... ie. current. Whether its on a micro scale or the macroscale, it is electron(s) moving

Second... if your horse has nerves in his mouth, then there are electrical potentials across the membranes of his nerve cells. And yes, there are changes in voltages across the membranes when there is a nerve action potential... We are, in a way, electrochemical creatures and redox reactions happen all the time in us... e.g. think of the reduction of oxygen to water as in respiration - which means electrons ARE moving.

Third, I personally found it an amusing and somewhat educational thread - e.g. I didn't know what made stainless steel stainless.

Fourth, there are quite a few posting here who I would never dare to assume were pea brains.

And finally, are you the new moderator?

[RAyers]

The echange of chemical ionic charges in metal alloys are not the same as what comes out of the wall outlets and batteries.



WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WROOOOOOONNNGGGGGG! OH SO WRONG!

Uh, how do you think batteries work? How do you think solar cells and fuel cells work? Talk about us being microcephalic.

Reed

[Janet]

The echange of chemical ionic charges in metal alloys are not the same as what comes out of the wall outlets and batteries. Sure it is.

It is EXACTLY the same as what comes out of a battery, except that it is several orders of magnitude weaker.

It is different from "what comes out of the wall outlet", in that the wall current is alternating, while the battery and the galvanic processes are not- as well as being several orders of magnitude weaker.

[Janet]

So you can now use bits with two metals in dressage??? Just call me out of date.
Oh yes. They have been legal for QUITE a few years now.

[deltawave]

Albert Einstein is rolling over in his grave. At the speed of light. ;)

Electricity is electricity is electricity. Electrons moving around. Nothing more, nothing less, be it a battery stuck in your mouth, a nerve cell in your brain, or the high-tension wires over your house. The key, of course, is how MANY. ;)

[sublimequine]

Um, excuse me, but what "topic" is that? :eek: There is no topic. This is a made up topic. Its a topic for microcephalics. That's "pea-brains" for you non-scientifical types.

The only thing mentioned horse related and with any truth on this thread is the exchange of ions between two dissimilar metals under some (not all) circumstances. Happens all over the world all the time. It has nothing to do with creating an electrical charge. There is no electrical charge in a horse's mouth, and no possiblity of one from a bit. The echange of chemical ionic charges in metal alloys are not the same as what comes out of the wall outlets and batteries.

Of course, if you make up enough $%!t, you can pretend anything.

And who died and made you moderator?

I'm trying to learn why people would think copper would shock a horse, as mentioned quite clearly in the first post. If yall want to joke about it that's fine, but it's getting in the way of the real info here.

If you don't like it, you don't have to post. :lol:

[gabz]

Oh yes. They have been legal for QUITE a few years now.

Janet - that's good to hear, can you point me in the right direciton (website) for the rule change? I'm not being picky - but I sometimes help at a tack booth during Expos and it helps to know "some" rules.... and if they change, to be able to tell the shopper about it. (Although I ALWAYS tell them, it's not my responsibility to know what's legal for THEIR particular situation).

If I have a piece of paper or copy of the rule, it's helpful. I know I still get those who won't buy a mixed metal bit for the horse - not even for training purposes.

(I'm not a "show" person - although I have served as secretary for a Reined Cow Horse Association and worked several stock horse-type shows)

[sublimequine]

Albert Einstein is rolling over in his grave. At the speed of light. ;)

Electricity is electricity is electricity. Electrons moving around. Nothing more, nothing less, be it a battery stuck in your mouth, a nerve cell in your brain, or the high-tension wires over your house. The key, of course, is how MANY. ;)

I loled at that first statement. :lol:

I think I agree with your second statement too.. it seems that's the answer to my original question. Yes an electrical charge is created, but no, there's not enough to 'shock' the horse.

[Peggy]

Not Janet, but you're looking for DR 121 for the info on bits. You can find the online USEF rulebook at http://www.usef.org/contentpage2.aspx?id=rulebook

It doesn't say that mixed metal bits are legal, just doesn't list them as illegal.

And, yes, charge = moving electrons which can be transferred thru a metal or thru a solution containing charged species (for example, ions in saliva and other biological fluids). And it can happen it biological systems, as my fellow scientists keep pointing out.

And now I must go off to the feed store to buy vetrap for today's ochem lab...

[sublimequine]

Not Janet, but you're looking for DR 121 for the info on bits. You can find the online USEF rulebook at http://www.usef.org/contentpage2.aspx?id=rulebook

It doesn't say that mixed metal bits are legal, just doesn't list them as illegal.

And, yes, charge = moving electrons which can be transferred thru a metal or thru a solution containing charged species (for example, ions in saliva and other biological fluids). And it can happen it biological systems, as my fellow scientists keep pointing out.

And now I must go off to the feed store to buy vetrap for today's ochem lab...

So you agree with my statement? I'm just trying to make sure I'm getting this correct. :lol:

[Rhyadawn]

Last evening I was riding at the farm with a friend. We were discussing bits (of all things!). She had read in a magazine article a few days ago that when riding and training you "should" be able to accomplish everything in a simple snaffle, and that if you were looking to change bits it should be to copper to encourage a better mouth and bit acceptance.

Now, without starting another war on people doing everything in a snaffle because that is NOT what I want to do, the point to the article was that copper was a desirable bit metal.

[AnotherRound]

I see what you all are saying, and I guess mine was a pretty dumb post. The electrical shock in the horse's mouth had me twirling there. Of course electrical charges are the same across materials, and I really didn't think and blew it on that post. Calling people peabrains was particularly extra dumb and not nice. Sorry folks.

I retract it! :)
But I can't. :(
But I would if I could!:)
But I can't.:(
Interesting thread, anyway. :)

[Janet]

Janet - that's good to hear, can you point me in the right direciton (website) for the rule change? I'm not being picky - but I sometimes help at a tack booth during Expos and it helps to know "some" rules.... and if they change, to be able to tell the shopper about it. (Although I ALWAYS tell them, it's not my responsibility to know what's legal for THEIR particular situation).

If I have a piece of paper or copy of the rule, it's helpful. I know I still get those who won't buy a mixed metal bit for the horse - not even for training purposes.
The rule change itself is too many years ago to still be on the web site.

They took out the clause saying that bits must all be of one metal.

So there isn't a particular clause that says "two metal bits are legal". But ther eis no longer anything saying they are not legal. As Peggy said, it is DR121, on pg DR17, after "figure 1".
All bits (in A and B below) must be smooth and with a solid surface. Twisted, wire and roller
bits are prohibited. A bushing or coupling is permitted as the center link in a double jointed
snaffle, however, the surface of the center piece must be solid with no moveable parts. The
mouthpiece of a snaffle may be shaped in a slight curve, but ported snaffles are prohibited.
A bridoon is defined as a snaffle bit used together with a curb bit to form a double bridle.
Bits (including curb and/or bridoon bits of a double bridle) must be made of metal or rigid
plastic and may be covered with rubber; flexible rubber bits are not permitted, except as
noted below, under A. The diameter of the snaffle or bridoon mouthpiece must be minimum
3/8 inch diameter at rings or cheeks of the mouthpiece (exception: for ponies, the diameter
may be less than 3/8 inches). Any bit combining any mouthpiece pictured in Figure 1A with
any cheekpiece pictured in Figure 1A is permitted. Type of bit should not vary from those
pictured below except where specified, and bits should be attached only as pictured in
diagram. NOTE: FEI Level riders may warm up only in a double bridle (with both bit and/or
bridoon made of metal or rigid plastic) or metal or rigid plastic snaffles pictured under B. In
both cases, bits may be covered with rubber and flexible rubber bits are not permitted. A
cavesson, dropped, crossed or flash noseband is allowed when a snaffle bridle is used in
warm-up.

[gabz]

Thank you Janet & Peggy.

Back to the OP... so what is the conclusion here? That a solid copper mouthpiece (not actually solid, but a mouthpiece completely covered by copper) will generate a minute electrical charge; and a mouthpiece with mixed metals, i.e., stainless steel with tiny bits of pure copper or sweet iron with tiny bits of pure copper; will produce a minute electrical charge and that each will be different based on the acid/alkalinity of the horse's mouth and that, in turn, creates the salivating?

And is it agreed that salivating is a good thing? Or is that another topic that has been done to death elsewhere?

[Fairview Horse Center]

Wash your bits, and put each in your mouth for a minute. I will definitely use MY mouth as the BEST real judge available since I can't ask my horse. Copper, German Silver, Aurgian, all cause me a burning, irritation in my mouth. Stainless steel does not. I definitely do not want to irritate my horse's mouth.

With proper riding, you shouldn't NEED to use a chemical reaction to make a moist mouth.

[deltawave]

As the proud owner of some amalgam fillings, I know quite well that real silver flatware reacts in my mouth and leaves an awful metallic, tinfoil taste

How do you know that's from your fillings? My son (no fillings) says the same thing about "real" silver flatware. I have TONS of fillings and can't taste anything funny with silver. :confused:

[Posting Trot]

I *have* put all my horse's bits in my mouth (I have always done it before they ever went into my horse's mouth:lol:). I never tasted much difference between stainless, copper, aurigan (H-S's alloy), and Kangaroo (the Dewsbury alloy). Maybe the bits with copper contents have a very slightly sweeter taste, but nothing to get excited about.

Never felt anything that I'd call an electrical charge; that doesn't mean that there isn't one, just that if there is it is so slight as to not register.

Possibly horse saliva is different chemically than human saliva, or maybe there's enough difference among individuals (both human and horses) to alter individual acceptance.

If your horse goes well in whatever bit it is, it doesn't really matter.

[sublimequine]

Thank you Janet & Peggy.

Back to the OP... so what is the conclusion here? That a solid copper mouthpiece (not actually solid, but a mouthpiece completely covered by copper) will generate a minute electrical charge; and a mouthpiece with mixed metals, i.e., stainless steel with tiny bits of pure copper or sweet iron with tiny bits of pure copper; will produce a minute electrical charge and that each will be different based on the acid/alkalinity of the horse's mouth and that, in turn, creates the salivating?

And is it agreed that salivating is a good thing? Or is that another topic that has been done to death elsewhere?

Yeah, I think you're right. And I think we came to the conclusion that bits with two different metals in them, like copper and stainless steel, will have a slightly more powerful charge I guess you'd say, but both are still quite minute.

And I guess it's debated if salivation is good or not. Some folks think if copper's the only thing making the horse salivate, then that's bad. Personally, I don't see that much more salivation in copper bits than in regular bits, so it makes no difference to me. I HAVE, however, seen some horses more readily accept the bit if it's copper or has copper on it, they seem to prefer that over 100% stainless steel.

Fairview; Note my 'experiment' where I put a copper penny in my mouth. Noticed no real difference.

[J Swan]

So let me get this straight.

If I stick my finger in an electric socket, with my horse's bit in my mouth, and the bit touches a filling, and I also have a lightbulb wedged in there - will the light turn on or not?

Now if I can't hunt the horse in a snaffle, and must use a Kimberwicke - does that make a difference in how bright the bulb glows? Or is the real difference only seen if the kimberwicke is copper?

And is the light strong enough to read by?

And will it make my hair curl?

If it does - do you think I could do this to my horse so that I don't have to perm his tail?

Just think of how much fun I'd be at parties. I could take my whole collection of bits, and in an effort to be "green" would of course use the fluorescent light bulbs that make my house look like a dirty gas station bathroom.

[deltawave]

You'll be too damn dead to care. AC is BAD. DC, you stand a chance.

[deltawave]

You'll be too damn dead to care. AC is BAD. DC, you stand a chance.

But please invite me to the party--I'd like to see the "collection"! ;)