bold ruler line characteristics?

[fourhorses]

The title rather sums it up -- if you were to see Bold Ruler heavy or up close in a pedigree, what sort of movement, conformation, jump ability, and temperment characteristics would you be likely to see?

I'll ask the same for the QH stallion Jet Deck as well, for anyone who's an AQ bloodline afficianado. What sort of characteristics in the categories listed above do you see out of his lines?

I know someone with a horse that's a close up cross of both lines, thought it a unique cross, and I'm curious to find out if studbook predictions hold true -- I'll be meeting said horsie's acquaintence sometime next week.

[camohn]

BR: good bone, good hind ends. Multi discipline talent for both dressage and jumping/all around athlete. Classic TB look. The brains: tend to be on the more forward end. Very intelligent but opinionated. On the whole these are horses you ask, not tell. If you fight with them they will fight back. I have had several and know of friends that had several and they were ALL like this. I know you are going to get "Bold Ruler is so far back it is diluted/it does not matter now" but that is not true. He is still very prepotent for type.....especially when you are talking like you are: close up or linebred.
So....not a bad or mean horse. Just one that has to be handled a certain way....respectfully........and they will work for you. They simply can't be forced of bullied. They will win! In short I think I am trying to say they require a tactful rider.

[fish]

The Bold Rulers I've known have indeed had the "classic TB look," but they were not terribly difficult rides. Indeed, one was a top equitation horse and another a terrific Jr. hunter. When I had a Northern Dancer/Bold Ruler who was wonderful, but had a bit of an "opinion," I , (perhaps mistakenly?)always attributed that to the ND-- I've known many ND's with a bit of mischief in them.

I've known one "Deck" horse-- don't remember whether it was Jet Deck or Top Deck-- or maybe even another one. He was a blue roan ridden in local hunter shows in Massachusetts back in the late 70's early 80's. He was fairly tall, leggy, big bodied and good boned with a somewhat short, thick, and not particularly supple neck-- the kind of QH who could easily have been mistaken for a TB because of his height, legginess and smoothness. He was a nice horse, solid, good-tempered, though nothing fancy as a mover and I don't remember what (if anything) he did over fences. He was, however, raised and trained exclusively by his amateur owner, who probably averaged less than one lesson a week and rarely showed, so who knows what a good professional or more ambitious amateur could have made of him. The owner he had just enjoyed having him in her backyard and being able to play and learn a bit with him when her two-job schedule permitted.

[Dune]

BR: good bone, good hind ends. Multi discipline talent for both dressage and jumping/all around athlete. Classic TB look. The brains: tend to be on the more forward end. Very intelligent but opinionated. On the whole these are horses you ask, not tell. If you fight with them they will fight back. I have had several and know of friends that had several and they were ALL like this. I know you are going to get "Bold Ruler is so far back it is diluted/it does not matter now" but that is not true. He is still very prepotent for type.....especially when you are talking like you are: close up or linebred.
So....not a bad or mean horse. Just one that has to be handled a certain way....respectfully........and they will work for you. They simply can't be forced of bullied. They will win! In short I think I am trying to say they require a tactful rider.


I'd have to agree with this post versus the second one, I've always quite liked the ND lines.

[vineyridge]

I agree with Camohn if my experience with my old man is the norm. Very classic TB look, (almost identical with Pharos), grumpy, opinionated, not now at 23 nor ever has been a packer, and the joy of my life. He's just a fun horse to own and be around. Got a good sense of humor, wants attention from me, and was the world's best babysitter for my TB foals. Really, really has a mind of his own. Submission is not in his vocabulary.

Hard keeper, though.

Forgot to say that he knows exactly how well I ride and will never do anything more than I can handle, but it took us three years to get to that point. He also takes extremely good care of me now that I'm old too.

He's a Bold Bidder grandson.

[Leena]

Thanks for that thread: I have a TB mare by Bold Executive and the description is so accurate !

[RubysMom]

I owned a Bold Ruler G-grandaughter, (sadly passed away this March at 27 years old :().
Very opinionated and talented, not a mean bone in her body, but if you got a bit "uppity" she was really good at knocking you down a peg or two.
She was good at humbling people who thought they could ride, (me included).
You "asked" this mare to perform for you, you never ever demanded things from her. Once I earned her trust (which took a few years, seriously), I had no doubt that she would walk thru fire for me, if I asked.

She was game and performed well in dressage, h/j, xc, foxhunting, and was an outstanding trail horse.

She was a top 10 mare in the Dutch Keuring, and approved for breeding to Dutch stallions, (not an easy registry for a TB mare to be approved unless they were excellent quality).

I once had someone who didn't know Ruby walk up to me and ask if she was a "Bold Ruler". I was amazed and asked her how she knew. She said if you know the line, you can pick out a Bold Ruler from a mile away. :yes:
I thought that was pretty cool. :D

My current gelding also has similar bloodlines although he's a "Starman" baby, on his sire side, he has Nearco and Hyperion, and dam side has 3 links to Nearco and Hyperion, as well as Nasrullah as a g-g-grandsire.

He's also on the "sensitive" side, though he's not quite as opinionated as Ruby was, he is good at letting me know if he's not happy about something.

I know these are very common TB lines, but there's a reason why. They ARE simply awesome sporthorses, IMO.

[fourhorses]

Thank you all for your input -- it's very interesting to see just how prevalent certain personality traits are for the BR line.
I owned a grandson a long time ago -- and sure enough he exhibited the same personality that all of you are talking about. Guess it wasn't just an individual thing with him after all!
Of course I loved him to death, but he wasn't so popular with some other people who hopped on him from time to time -- definitely a one person horse and not the type to be consistent -- would definitely soldier up and bust his gut for me, but if we got into an arguement in the warm up arena it was best to just pack up and call it a day; he was put out. Made me a much better horseman and rider though.

Oddly enough, it appears as though the Jet Decks are much the same way from what some of my rodeo/speed event friends say -- perhaps a little bit saltier, definitely opinionated hard workers. I'll have to make sure and be extra polite with this fellow if he's anything like his pedigree, which from all rumors he is.:)

[patch work farm]

I bred one TB filly, had Bold Ruler on top and bottom, now THERE was an opinion (did I also mention she is a redhead?!). She was very talented but I agree with the first poster, it had to be her idea! I know she was being evented by a 14 year old when I last heard about her.

[kcmel]

The brains: tend to be on the more forward end. Very intelligent but opinionated. On the whole these are horses you ask, not tell. If you fight with them they will fight back. I have had several and know of friends that had several and they were ALL like this. I know you are going to get "Bold Ruler is so far back it is diluted/it does not matter now" but that is not true. He is still very prepotent for type.....especially when you are talking like you are: close up or linebred.
So....not a bad or mean horse. Just one that has to be handled a certain way....respectfully........and they will work for you. They simply can't be forced of bullied. They will win! In short I think I am trying to say they require a tactful rider.

That is so funny; this is exactly one of my BR horses. But my other horse is BR-line as well, although a different line (Secretariat vs. Plum Bold) and further back (4 generations vs. 3), and he is just about opposite. Not smart, but very willing and good-natured.

[retrofit]

Someone somewhere had the "wisdom" to breed an Appaloosa to a Bold Ruler. And I in my teenaged ignorance bought the product as an unhandled unbroke 3 year old. I swear to god that mare broke land-speed records .... SIDEWAYS. Thankfully she was small and the ground was very close. :D

Seriously, I learned lots and she was a very cool & versatile horse, but I will never buy another Bold Ruler, at least not a typical one.

[elmerandharriet]

didnt bold ruler have alot of lameness as a younger colt...i heard this about bold rulers but im not sure if its true(i heard it from a wb lady) that bold rulers where prone to lameness? my horse has alot of bold ruler in his lines on both sides and hes a clutz but classy looks and very smart!

[Kimberlee]

My mare had BR on the dam side, two generations back. Loved her to death.
Hard worker, agree with the bit about it needing to be her idea, but she never said no. You just had to change the way you put it to her. Always made me ride her with skill, but would pack around a kid and never put a foot wrong. Would never refuse a jump on course, but if i wasn't sure about the jump in a lesson she would just as soon wait until i wait until i was sure ;)

[elmerandharriet]

http://www.jockeysite.com/stories/boldruler.htm

its very interesting

[Tabwrdd_ridge]

I agree with the first poster, the only other thing i would add is that they are so freaking sensible. I think theres a big difference when riding with the ask/ tell thing ( i totally agree ) but as for just being easy to work around and dealing with general stuff.. omg.. I have a a bold ruler mare I evented, then crossed her to the damascus line twice ( audited over in va beach) and also to another line and EVERY foal she puts on the ground is wicked fancy and has this unflappable personality and is DROP DEAD QUIET with an amazingly high tolerance for pain.. -- that sounds odd until you realize that I specifically breed for fancy tb's with good brains between there ears, and don't complain about a few scratches playing rough in the field. -- that having been said, the mare is homozygus gray, so everything out of her is gray. I wouldnt know if I would have the same experience if she was spitting out chestnut mares ( haha!!)

Often mine are mistaken for wb's and people are shocked when theyfind out they are papered tb's. ( especially the ones crossed to the Damascus line)

[fish]

I'd have to agree with this post versus the second one, I've always quite liked the ND lines.

Whoa-- I never said I didn't LIKE the ND's-- I totally love them. For quickness, athleticism and lovely, light, elastic movement, they can't be beat. What I said was that they can be prone to a little mischief-- and when they are that quickness and athleticism has been known land people on the ground quicker than thought! Incredible, gorgeous horses-- and FAST-- which is not a virtue for all times and situations. My all time best horse was an ND/Speak John/Bold Ruler combo-- very interestingly linebred to Bold Ruler on the bottom. I've loved Speak Johns for sweet, sweet temperaments; Northern Dancers for sheer athleticism and light, agile movement; Bold Ruler for size, that classic look, and the sensibleness the last poster spoke of. It is true that trying to punish or force Bold Ruler line horses won't work anywhere near as well as cajoling, but the ones I've known have been so sensible, steady and basically willing to work that I've never considering having to "ask instead of tell" a problem. Why bother to "tell" a horse when asking works so well anyway?

[EqTrainer]

My BR horses have been the most gracious and lovely horses I have ever had. Sensible, as other people have pointed out. Stunningly beautiful. Expansive, generous personalities. I agree with Fish - why tell when you can so nicely agree on everything? I can't remember one I ever fought with.

[Nikki^]

My filly has Bold Ruler on her dam's side. Here is her pedigree:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/heart+of+gold6

and she is opinionated but also extremely gentle. I've had her since she was a weanling and when she didn't get her way she old throw a fit. Thankfully we worked that issue out and she is great. When I ride her, she is very willing and such a pleasure to ride. Sometimes I have to ask her gently but most of the time she is happy to work. I love her puppy dog personality. funny story: When she was grazing in the pasture, one of her pasture buddies, Sonny, made an ugly face at her. She quitely backed up to Sonny and blasted him. She missed but she got the point across.

I also had a gelding who has Bold Ruler in him and he is awesome! I miss him dearly and he is living his life as a trail horse for a little girl. I could put anyone on him he was very gentle. I so loved galloping him out in the open fields. He also loved to chase cows. Funny eh?

[TrickOfTheTrade]

I have ridden several Bold Rulers and owned one. All were exactly as described. They do have a bit of fight in them though, bbut you just need to be aware of it. Over all I like the Bold Rulers and s few really taught me to ride correctly.

Whoa-- I never said I didn't LIKE the ND's-- I totally love them. For quickness, athleticism and lovely, light, elastic movement, they can't be beat. What I said was that they can be prone to a little mischief-- and when they are that quickness and athleticism has been known land people on the ground quicker than thought! Incredible, gorgeous horses-- and FAST-- which is not a virtue for all times and situations....

I totally agree with you on the ND's. The one I rode was just like you described... very quick and athletic. He could spin anyone off, but was so handy on the turns.

[RubysMom]

Elmerandharriet, thanks so much for the link to Bold Ruler's bio. I really enjoyed reading it.

The characteristics of gentleness and respect to "his" person brought tears to my eyes. Ruby was like that with children and beginner riders. VERY gentle and she put up with little girls swarming all over her and ducking under her belly without blinking an eye or moving a muscle. Of course I was like :eek:

A beginner could bang around on her and she would carefully shuffle along, and she would stop if she felt them lose their balance.
Put a cocky intermediate rider on her and she would cheerfully make their ride pure hell, til they got a clue and realized that you don't TELL her what to do.
I was the "cocky " rider, she humbled me over and over again, (never dumped me, though she let me know in NO uncertain terms she was quite displeased with me :mad:), however once I learned how to ride her correctly, she gave me everything she had and then some.
I owe her alot.

She also had a high pain tolerance, which to me isn't really a "good" thing, as they will keep going even if they hurt, but that is also part of a horse with "heart", and she had plenty of heart and spirit.

She was also a class act, and a truly beautiful horse, bright bay with an offside white foot, like her g-grandaddy and a tiny white "lightning bolt" on her forehead.

Sigh, I miss her horribly. Thanks for letting me ramble on, I do love the BR line horses, and I"m so glad my gelding has a little bit of Ruby and BR in his lines. :sadsmile:

[LotsofSlots]

I wondered where my mare's "little mischief" came from. She is ND from Majestic Prince, top line down from Never Bend, Her dam was from Tri Jet. She is way to smart and has a real sense of humor. Also she just gets better with age.

[camohn]

I've never considering having to "ask instead of tell" a problem. Why bother to "tell" a horse when asking works so well anyway?
Because there are pots of riders out there that work this way! Either they are too impatient or consider a horse a robot. They are not "horsemen". They are passengers. Some horses are tolerant of that. BRs are not.

[fish]

Because there are pots of riders out there that work this way! Either they are too impatient or consider a horse a robot. They are not "horsemen". They are passengers. Some horses are tolerant of that. BRs are not.

Ah, yes. That's one of the reasons I like TB's in general. They make such good teachers because of it. Far too many people have grown up thinking animals are like machines and learning to ride is like learning to drive a car. TB's will let them know otherwise-- and that doesn't mean they aren't kind, either. As others have said, many of them will pack a child around in bareback and in a halter. It's people who try to force and bully them they tend to put in their places.

[cherham]

The Grand Champion Canadian Sport Horse at the Royal Agricultural Winter Fair in Toronto last year is a great granddaughter of Bold Ruler on the dams side :) I LOVE this TB line and every sport horse I now own is related to him.

I obviously did not ever meet Bold Ruler himself but I wonder if he had that beautiful kind eye with that little wrinkle on the lower eyelid that clearly seems to identify his offspring. I can pick out a Bold Ruler pretty consistently in the show ring by that particular trait.

Very typey stallion indeed.....what a huge influence on sport horse breeding he has had in North America as well.

[denny]

I`ve had some really good direct Bold Ruler line stallions--Right of Light and Forfeit, who sired two of my advanced horses, King Oscar and Griffin, and now a young Irish horse, Formula One, who`s paternal grandsire, Bohemond, is by Auction Ring by Bold Bidder by Bold Ruler.
Bohemond sired the dam of Winsome Adante, incidentally.
I think some of the really close up Bold Rulers could be tough in the brain. But enormous athleticism if you could work through that. My former neighbor, June Mc Knight kept Bold Ruler`s full brother, Independence, at Huntington Farm, just down the hill from my farm in Strafford, Vt.
I was riding by there, not realizing that he`d arrived, and I saw this huge brown horse cantering up the field, and it looked like a cloud sweeping by on a windy day, so silent and so effortless was his gallop.
Later I found out who he was, and realized why.

[classicsporthorses]

Well I, (raising my hand) have the line running through a few of my TB's and they meet the descriptions everyone has written. The Line also carries through when crossed out through WB or draft lines.

One of my TB Broodies has the BR lines and her babies, they are spotted draft crosses, are SMART, opinionated and have athleticism and talent up the eyeballs. Even my mare, who never raced and has always been a broodmare, can knock the socks off of other horses. At just under 15.3 She has jumped, from a standstill and 9 months pregnant, a 3'6x 3+ foot obstacle with plenty of room to spare.

Her babies clear 4 foot fences as yearlings or less and the speed they have is stunning.

My 19 year old, 17.1h gelding, who is a closer bloodline with Bold Ruler is still a pill. He is a school master and multiple discplines (english and western) and up until 2 years ago was still taking 4'6 courses with ease. He will never, ever be for a beginner. I tell people, he will not buck you off, bolt, rear, he will psyche you out. You have to know how to ride to ride this horse!

The lines is certainly challenging at times, but it also comes with great kindness, a clear vision of what they want in life and if they feel you can handle them, the "bow" with great respect.

[camohn]

Our BR of the moment (Chieftain bred) is Miss Annihilator...scroll down for pics.
She is currently bred to Tasker's stallion Waldaire for an APril 08 foal.
http://www.providencefarmpintos.com/default2.asp?active_page_id=12

[vineyridge]

My 2 yo filly is linebred to Chieftain on the bottom side and is Deputy Minister/Seattle Slew on top. I bought her at six months because she was such a brave and independent foal that she would leave the foal herd to go running the pasture fences by herself. She's never been afraid of much of anything except insect spray, and is usually very sensible indeed. She's off at charm school now, and the trainer has been impressed with how utterly reasonable she has been during the experience.

On the other hand, her registered name is Amountainoftrouble, so maybe the sellers knew something about her that I didn't. :eek: (Mountain is in the dam's name, but "trouble" is a new injection).

[ise@ssl]

My experience - very pretty horses, usually very talented horses - sometimes completely crazy horses - i.e. they seem to periods where their minds fall into a black hole.

[europa]

I am sure that good bad and ugly examples can come from all the traditional TB lines ....that having been said I much prefer the ND lines. Typically large bigger through the ribcage and platter feet. I find the BRs tend to be large bodied good looking line types with smallish feet. Just my experience. Also, the most evil mare I have ever known chewed my ND mare's neck to pieces in a horse trailering nightmare.....she had gouges on every inch of her neck when I unloaded her. I wanted to kill my friends mare. I will never forget that as long as I live. Don't know many horses that would do that to another horse.....just plain mean. Needless to say no one offered her rides in the future.

[NoGreatMischief]

Thanks for that thread: I have a TB mare by Bold Executive and the description is so accurate !

Ditto, I have a mare by the same sire and she's a pistol! :)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/regally+bold

[Sukey1971]

The ones I have known have generally been good-looking, good-sized horses, athletic with a bit of an opinion. I've ridden a few though never owned one. Also, I've heard from several people (mostly racehorse people) that the Bold Rulers are arthritic and tend to have degenerative hock disease. I don't know how many generations this carries through.

[Rift]

The ones I have known have generally been good-looking, good-sized horses, athletic with a bit of an opinion. I've ridden a few though never owned one. Also, I've heard from several people (mostly racehorse people) that the Bold Rulers are arthritic and tend to have degenerative hock disease. I don't know how many generations this carries through.

That is quite suprising, My 23 year old grand daughter of BR (on the sires side) raced until late in her five year old year, did the JR jumpers for me, had a baby at 16, almost died having it (OMG talk about pain tolerance), went back to work at 18, jumped aroundt 3'6" bucking and squealing six months later and is a sound as they get with never having had her hocks (or anything else for that matter) injected. She stands in the field in no so happy retirement right now because she's too hard for my students to stay on over the jumps!

[SolitaireMare]

Very interesting thread. Explains a lot about the "unique" personality of my last horse, a Bold Ruler great granddaughter. She was also very "high headed" and I swear that "look of eagles" expression was coined for her. Her build was almost identical to Bold Ruler, especially in the hind end. (Wow, now I know where she got her "bubble butt" from!)

She was tough to handle, very independant and opinionated but absolutely gorgeous to look at. She had an unusual, very Arab infuenced dished face with a small white crescent star on her forehead and she was jet black in color. She won every model class I entered her in (even with pin-firing marks from her early days on the track on her front legs, because her conformation was so textbook perfect). She was a better equitation horse than a hunter, because her "ride" was never consistantly quiet enough around the course to show her as a successful hunter but as an Eq horse she was second to none.

Funny about Bold Ruler being accident prone, I always used to say my mare had a death wish and I can't count the number of times I was rehabbing her from yet another injury throughout her life.

We had 20 years together before I lost her to colic. What a memorable mare. She taught me more about horses and riding than all the lessons and books ever could.

[TBlitz]

My experience - very pretty horses, usually very talented horses - sometimes completely crazy horses - i.e. they seem to periods where their minds fall into a black hole.

OMG, that is EXACTLY what I was going to say! Mine goes into "Blitzy Land" when I'm riding him and I have to bring him back to this world. I'm never sure exactly whats going on in his head. He's very athletic and was gorgeous before he lost his topline.

He loves to work and RUN, has a big heart and will finish whatever you want him to (and never lets on to his problems- arthritis, epm, etc.), not very controllable (unless it's a little kid). He's very loyal only to his one person, even running off other horses who come near me. VERY opinionated about which tack/ training equipment gets used on him and will quickly let you know what stays and goes (or he will MAKE you get off to take it off). Hard keeper to the extreme and has always been.

Blitz has Bold Ruler only once (Cheiftain), but Nasrullah (Bold Ruler's sire)3x in his pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/rojo+red)

I love my TBs, but they are a bit wild sometimes :winkgrin::yes:

[camohn]

Someone earlier asked how many generations his traits carry through. LOTS! BR is very prepotent for type even way down the pike.....especially when you get into horses that are linebred to BR.
The earlier link posted is no longer up so here is a different link to Annie (Chieftain bred)
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/camohn03/?action=view&current=AnnieRight407Reduced.jpg
at 17 years old. Her hocks are still clean as a whistle. I have heard about the supposed BR hock thing but I have known a lot of BR horses personally and not one of them had a hock problem so I don't worry about it. The BRAIN is prepotent though!

[enavant]

Just had to chime in...I own Innkeeper who is by Secretariat so a Bold Ruler grandson. If the qualities that have been discussed on this thread and are so prevalent in Innkeeper are from Bold Ruler then I would own a barn full!! Innkeeper and his get, although not push overs are some of the smartest, coolest and most fun horses I have had the pleasure to have been around and ridden. I have had some people who just can't deal with them and It's not a "happy marriage" but, I have always said if I had to put my life in the hands of one of my horses it would be Innkeeper; smart, sassy and self preserving! LOVE THEM!!!

[camohn]

Sassy and opinionated isn't necessarily a BAD thing...in the hands of folks that can deal with that. It's just not a trait everyone wants. Forward and a little bit strong willed is a better trait in an event horse than a hunter for example.

[beachpony]

This thread is cracking me up!

I have a Bold Ruler horse "Amigo" and had no idea that his funny quirks were passed down from BR himself.
He's gorgeous, very athletic, great bone (I'm always asked if he's a WB or WB cross) & BOY is he opinionated! He doesn't have a mean bone in his body but he DEFINITELY let's you know what his likes and dislikes are! He's very picky about who's on his back. He likes people who "ask" nicely and gets scared to pieces if you demand him to do things. I trailer out from my ranch but he's let me know which barns he likes & doesn't like. He's a complete pain-in-the-butt at certain barns but the perfect little hunter at other places.

With all of his silly quirks and distinct personality I just love him to pieces and feel so lucky to have a horse that also has BR's build and athletic genes!

Here's a few pictures of Amigo:

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1287866561066564881rZoWpJ
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1299242111066564881QZeRAS
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1395062951066564881CdlFuX

[szipi]

Our Holsteiner Main Mare book approved TB mare, Key Moment is a Bold Ruler line mare. She is also approved Trakehner and Belgian Warmblood. She is the dam of Lotus T (by Lemgo), our Holsteiner approved, 100-day tested (3rd at the 2002 test) stallion with absolutely amazing, international caliber gaits and jump. His full sister, a Premium and performance tested mare Minden (currently an amateur's dressage mount) is the dam of Akos, another Holsteiner approved Stallion. Key Moment has also produced two other Premium and site champion mares as well as other premium offspring for the Trakehners and BElgian Warmbloods. Pedigree? Key Moment is by For The Moment (2nd at the Kentucky Derby, by What a Pleasure by Bold Ruler), out of a Key To The Mint mare. www.prairiepinesfarm.com

[elmerandharriet]

my gelding has br in his lines and hes a smart*** ive had several trainers ride him and when he decides he doenst want to work he lays down on them! he laid down undersaddle at a show once... i laughed. he has never laid down on me as we are pretty close but he set in his ways that if he doesnt like you hes going to lay on you!

[Tiki]

I have 4 Bold Ruler mares. One, also a granddaughter of Spectacular Bid. Her daughter by a King of Diamonds stallion in the most incredible jumper, and sweet as anything. She was a bit of a trial as a foal. When she was done with you patting her, she very clearly let you know that she'd had enough, but she's a sweetheart now, and what a jump!!!

The other, my grandmother mare, is herd boss, still at 23, and no one had better challenge her, although all she ever has to do is swing her head, maybe pin her ears, and as a last resort, snap her teeth in the challenger's direction. She has the absolutely most incredible, floating, reaching trot - when she wants to. Her canter and walk are to die for. Disposition? She is bold, fearless and curious, but not mean in any way. She developed a life threatening lymphangitis last year and I thought about 3 or 4 times that I would have to put her down. Uh uh!! She said, 'Hell no, I'm not ready to go' and rallied every time. The vet and her assistant had to come out daily for a while to give her IV meds and sometimes to drain her hock and give injections of antibiotic into the hock. They were amazed. Stangers, and smelling of medicine approached her. She watched and waited to see what they would do. The approached and talked to her and patted her. She stood still. The brought out needles and drugs. She stood still. She knew they were trying to help her. The vet was amazed as she stood stock still, without a halter or any restraint, while she gave the shots and they stuck a needle in and drained her hock and put in antibiotics. The vet said when they were done she pressed her head against their chests and said 'Thank you'. She still has to take medicine one week a month by oral syringe. She takes it out of the syringe for me with no restraint. She's Bold Ruler on the top and Round Table on the bottom, with Princequillo and Native Dancer thrown in there.

Her daughter, also by a King of Diamonds, is an incredible mare. Gorgeous and a beautiful, stunning mover with an unbelievable jump. She is going to make a top hunter, although she's already done quite well at dressage. She beat a number of the top WB broodmares at DAD in the maiden mares class. I've had one huge offer on her that I had to turn down as she's in foal to Consul, but she is going to be something to watch in the hunter ring when the foal is weaned next year. She has the jump, and also the looks and movement to win the hack, and she's a puppy dog.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Interesting...I've ridden a bunch from the BR line and say the personality traits are very true. One of my current mares has a little of BR...but actually a lot more Nasrullah. It is all pretty far back but she exibits the same traits. Smart, tries hard but you ask not demand. She is definately a one person horse and I will not sell her since she considers me her one person. Submission is not in her vocab but she is a lovely mover and jumper and while forward, I can get on her after a month lay off and go right out on a hack on the buckle.....not sure she would be that quiet with just anyone though.

It is a very popular line and you will find it at least somewhat in most TB horses.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/charm18

[Ozalynda]

I have an old photo of my father together with Bold Ruler. :)

[tarynls]

My guy has Bold Ruler on both the sire and dam side (4 generations back). On the dam side, he also has Icecapade, Nearco and Pharos as well as My Babu 5.

We also have War Jeep and Northern Dancer on the sire side.

He has all the mentioned Bold Ruler characteristics - heck of a personality,wants attention, loves to be loved on, SMART, will play with anything and everything he shouldn't.

Amuses himself and will annoy the farrier by flapping his upper lip so it makes a popping noise - for the entire hour and a half he is being worked on. Has also stolen the farrrier's baseball hat off his head and tossed it down the aisle, tosses empty shavings bags down the aisle if he can reach them, has been known to unfasten Velcro repeatedly (seems to like the noise). Has been known to unfasten farrier's suspenders.

Will "test" you when you ride him - and if you pass the test then you are OK and he will give you 110%. (which can be nothing more than putting his head down during a hand gallop - if you don't pick his head up, he will buck - and he WILL at least get you off, if not throw you into a fence/tree/etc.)

Love that guy. This is his entire pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/geniuss+victory

[SolitaireMare]

...I have heard about the supposed BR hock thing but I have known a lot of BR horses personally and not one of them had a hock problem so I don't worry about it. The BRAIN is prepotent though!

I have to agree with camohn on the arthritis issue as far as in the hocks goes. My mare was a show horse and hunter paced in the fall until she was 18 years old and never in her life had any problems with her hocks. However, a bad arthritic change in her hind fetlock joint ended her show career at 18. Even after arthroscopic surgery to clean out the joint, she had a hitch in her gait that never went away due to decreased range of motion in the joint. BUT, to get to 18 years old before her career as a show horse ended is a testament, in my opinion, to the toughness of the genes.

[teal tea]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/awesome+cowboy

This is my TB. I don't know if his lines to Bold Ruler are really diluted (I'm not a breeder). He does not look like a TB though. He's 15.2 and built like a quarter horse.

As far as his personality it's nothing out of the ordinary. He tries to do his job but that describes a lot of TB's. He's doesn't seem very attached to people. He's a bit spooky sometimes. He's tried to buck me off perhaps 5 times in the 8 years I've owned him.

[Mia412]

That is quite suprising, My 23 year old grand daughter of BR (on the sires side) raced until late in her five year old year, did the JR jumpers for me, had a baby at 16, almost died having it (OMG talk about pain tolerance), went back to work at 18, jumped aroundt 3'6" bucking and squealing six months later and is a sound as they get with never having had her hocks (or anything else for that matter) injected. She stands in the field in no so happy retirement right now because she's too hard for my students to stay on over the jumps!

I just realized who you are! I knew you when you were in PA & always loved your mare!


I have a BR line horse on the sire side out of a 1/2 brother to ND on the dam's side. Been known to buck & squeal around a course until his retirement from showing at the age of 22, now enjoys semi-retirement as a trail horse. He shares a lot of the mentioned traits, including the quick spin when scary things cross the trail! (squirrels, chipmunks . . .)

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

Cadet is my first OTTB and I learned to ride english, retrain a racehorse and jump on him. His name is Bold Thou Art. He is by Hail Bold King by Bold Bidder. He will be 20 in 2008 and STILL acts like a 4 year old!

He is my best friend and he's taught me a lot, but he can be totally stupid and LOOKS for reasons to spook. He loves to jump, hates to be alone and loves to gallop all over the pasture. He's filled my walls with ribbons from the shows and people always ask how old he is and then are floored when they find out his age thinking he's a lot younger. He's always been sound and isn't big boned. He's an easy keeper and I don't have to lunge him before riding him. I don't tend to let anyone else on him and I've had him since he was 4. We took first at a charity gymkhana charity event we did this summer too.

Here are two pics of him, both of which were just taken yesterday. He's on the right, racing my gelding by Storm Cat around the pasture yesterday.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i131/TBJMPR2/Picture002_1.jpg?t=1197519211

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i131/TBJMPR2/Picture024_1.jpg?t=1197519389

[camohn]

What I call Bold Ruler tude I have also heard called Nasrullah-tude. Most of the horses posted here may only have 1 cross to BR but I see lots of crosses to Nasrullah! I only have 1 mare that is Nasrullah (but not BR) close up that does not fit the mold. I have 2 mares that are Hail The Pirate (Hail To Reason) mares. One has a Nasrullah bred other half and the other does not. The 2 are the spitting image of each other and favor the Hail To Reason side of the family...HTR is another prepotent sire so in this case the HTR influnce won out over the Nasrullah. (IN other words...That one is very calm/unflappable!)

[fish]

What I call Bold Ruler tude I have also heard called Nasrullah-tude. Most of the horses posted here may only have 1 cross to BR but I see lots of crosses to Nasrullah! I only have 1 mare that is Nasrullah (but not BR) close up that does not fit the mold. I have 2 mares that are Hail The Pirate (Hail To Reason) mares. One has a Nasrullah bred other half and the other does not. The 2 are the spitting image of each other and favor the Hail To Reason side of the family...HTR is another prepotent sire so in this case the HTR influnce won out over the Nasrullah. (IN other words...That one is very calm/unflappable!)


On the other hand, didn't HTR sire Halo, whose offspring are known for pretty difficult temperaments?

The Bold Rulers I've had have all been very sweet and classy horses. Same has been true of the ones going back to Nasrullah through Nashua. E.g., my John Alden mare is a double back to Nashua, and you couldn't find a better work ethic. Our Diplomat and others by Diplomat Way (by Nashua) are well known for their similarly wonderful temperaments.

I think that defining family characteristics can be pretty hard in horses as in people-- you get to know a family and you come to recognize the characteristics when you see them, but they are very often difficult to describe and can manifest very differently in different combinations -- both with other bloodlines and with different kinds of handling. IMO, that's a big part of what makes this sport, from the breeding all the way up, so exciting.

[vineyridge]

To me, Bold Ruler 'tude and Nasrullah 'tude are two very different things. Nasrullah took after Nearco in his temperament, which is supposed to have been mean/dangerous.

I've heard Bold Bidder was difficult, to put it mildly; but there is a huge difference in breeding stallions and geldings and mares. We've been having some discussion on some of the racing breeding boards on dangerous horses, and both Roberto and Halo have come up more frequently than any others. Both Hail to Reason. But the geldings and mares are said to be okay.

I'd say, in generalities, that BRs are smart but not inherently mean, while some of the other Nasrullah lines are mean to the point of dangerous.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

To me, Bold Ruler 'tude and Nasrullah 'tude are two very different things. Nasrullah took after Nearco in his temperament, which is supposed to have been mean/dangerous.

I've heard Bold Bidder was difficult, to put it mildly; but there is a huge difference in breeding stallions and geldings and mares. We've been having some discussion on some of the racing breeding boards on dangerous horses, and both Roberto and Halo have come up more frequently than any others. Both Hail to Reason. But the geldings and mares are said to be okay.

I'd say, in generalities, that BRs are smart but not inherently mean, while some of the other Nasrullah lines are mean to the point of dangerous.

At what point to you think it is so diluted as to not mean anything? I personally find that BR and Nasrullah are so far back in most horses pedigree as to not mean much. My mare has Nasrullah 4x in her 5th generation (I think) http://www.pedigreequery.com/charm18

Not a mean bone...but surprise her...she will kick in a heart beat (can we say strong survival instinct)...again not mean but she is tough (her dam retired sound after 100 races and she went back to eventing at Prelim less then a year after breaking her withers). In the end while I think their blood lines and pedigrees have some influence...most of the characteristics that people are describing I have found true of MOST of my TBs....regardless of their breeding. My mare's temperment I think more comes from her sire/dam directly and how she was handled through her life.

[amdfarm]

I used to have a wonderful g-granddaughter of Bold Bidder x Bold Ruler on top and Bold Ruler on the bottom. Big boned mare w/ a wonderful disposition. Off the track she became a trail horse, broodmare and back to both when I got her. Nobody ever guessed her to be a TB, as she was so big and quarter horse looking. I'd show her tatoo to prove that she was a TB. I'd love to find another like her someday. Such a love, easy keeper, easy to handle and ride, could hop on her bareback in the pasture w/ a halter and lead and she'd ride great. One client said she was very hunter in movement.

My current TB mare is fifth generation BR and Native Dancer on top (Mr. Prospector g-granddaughter) and Nasrullah, ND on the bottom. She's a lot different, more TB in type, more refined, can be a little flighty, but if you talk to her she calms right down. She's only been ridden once since coming off the track. She can jump though and is a beautiful mover. Maybe someday I'll be brave once again and will start working her again. She's a lovely mare and has proven to be a good mom.

[vineyridge]

Given the number of times you can find multiple crosses of BR or Nasrullah/Nearco blood in pedigrees, can you really say it's diluted?

I know that the mare and handling has as much or more to do with temperament as the bloodlines, but we can't ignore the possibility of strong genetically transmitted personality traits. They are certainly in human lineages, as my own family can attest.

Doesn't it depend on how dominant (pre-potent) that personality trait is in the parents?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Given the number of times you can find multiple crosses of BR or Nasrullah/Nearco blood in pedigrees, can you really say it's diluted?

I know that the mare and handling has as much or more to do with temperament as the bloodlines, but we can't ignore the possibility of strong genetically transmitted personality traits. They are certainly in human lineages, as my own family can attest.

Doesn't it depend on how dominant (pre-potent) that personality trait is in the parents?


True. I do think it ends up being a bit of a guessing game though. I have three half siblings out of the same dam (the mare I posted above is one of those half siblings). And I can say that while their sires are all VERY different...there are several personality traits of mama that have been passed down that show up in each sibling. But is that coming through the blood or nurture....that is the question I think scientists have yet to answer.

[camohn]

To me, Bold Ruler 'tude and Nasrullah 'tude are two very different things. Nasrullah took after Nearco in his temperament, which is supposed to have been mean/dangerous.

I've heard Bold Bidder was difficult, to put it mildly; but there is a huge difference in breeding stallions and geldings and mares. We've been having some discussion on some of the racing breeding boards on dangerous horses, and both Roberto and Halo have come up more frequently than any others. Both Hail to Reason. But the geldings and mares are said to be okay.

I'd say, in generalities, that BRs are smart but not inherently mean, while some of the other Nasrullah lines are mean to the point of dangerous.


Personally I would agree. For the most part the BRs seem to be strong willed and often quirky. Seattle Slew is well known for being really quirky. I have not personally seen the consistency of temperment (good or bad) come through in other Nasrullah lines as much as BR. For me the temperment thing with the Hail to Reason horses seems to be less consitent. Halo
http://www.pedigreequery.com/halo
is certainly legendary for his nastiness. More currently so is Silver Ghost
http://www.pedigreequery.com/silver+ghost.
OTOH Roberto
http://www.pedigreequery.com/roberto
and Hail The Pirates
http://www.pedigreequery.com/hail+the+pirates
top the hunter breeding lists, especially as a damsire.

[SSFLandon]

I agree with Camohn if my experience with my old man is the norm. Very classic TB look, (almost identical with Pharos), grumpy, opinionated, not now at 23 nor ever has been a packer, and the joy of my life. He's just a fun horse to own and be around. Got a good sense of humor, wants attention from me, and was the world's best babysitter for my TB foals. Really, really has a mind of his own. Submission is not in his vocabulary.

Hard keeper, though.

Forgot to say that he knows exactly how well I ride and will never do anything more than I can handle, but it took us three years to get to that point. He also takes extremely good care of me now that I'm old too.

He's a Bold Bidder grandson.

WOW this is so strange...and a little sad. I had a Jet Deck TB cross. I need to pull his papers out to see the TB side but, several of these posts describe him to a T. He died this year of a heart attack but, was the toughest horse I know. I rescued him from a killer auction and had him 13 years. He was never lame, never needed any injections and was so healthy. He was a barrel horse that I turned into a jumpers. He was hot and you HAD to get along with him but, boy could he jump. He was a pure athlete until the day he died. I had him 13 great years and did jumpers, fox hunting, hunter paces, and he was eventually easy enough to lease out to kids for the smaller jumpers...I'll miss him!

[dbtoo]

Due to this thread I looked up the pedigree of the prettiest and most classic looking TB in our barn and yep she has Bold Ruler through Raja Baba. She also has the athleticism and the mind.

[LudgerFan]

I have a quite wonderful gelding I got off the track almost a year and a half ago who has Bold Ruler twice on the top side, Nasrullah no less than FIVE times in the fourth to sixth generations (counting top and bottom.) I joke that he is more Nasrullah than Nasrullah was! He also has three extra teeth to prove it. (He never lost three of his incisors...one got pushed out by the adult I3's, but the other 3 are still hanging around as there appears to have been room for them to stay a while.) He is a very entertaining, engaging personality. Again, incredibly smart and, yes, opinionated. I find that Ruler horses are just that, Rulers. They are always trying to "one-up" their competition, exerting their dominance...that includes their riders and handlers. If they can't dominate or intimidate you, THEN they respect you. But they do not tolerate unfair treatment or unjust punishment. If they recognize you as a just leader without weakness, THEN they are your most loyal friend for life.

Has anyone else noticed that these horses like to go vertical quite often while playing? Nothing's more amazing (and often scary) to watch than two Bold Ruler horses going at it. Talk about neither backing down...

[yankeeclipper]

I have an Old/TB cross with Bold Ruler in his line and have to agree about the comment
"they are so freaking sensible". I am amazed at how sensible my guy is and was as a young horse. In situations that other horses would panic he calmly figures it out.

[emf]

Had to chime in. I currently have a 5 YO BR maternal great-granddaughter (her dam was 26 when she was foaled, thanks to an irresponsible backyard breeder). Here she is: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2340209610081354255fwGRCh She's pretty opinionated about her space and being groomed, but an absolute doll and super smart under saddle.

My other TB mare, now retired, had BR on top & bottom. That girl was hot and could JUMP. Had hormone-related behavior issues in a big way too. God, I miss her.

[RodeoQueen]

Hi,

We have an Easy Jet mare by Jet Deck. She's small but very correct, athletic and very good minded. She's older (21) and even when 9 month in foal, tears around like a party animal 3 year old! Jet Deck is on the All Breed Pedigree - you can look him up and see pic and summary of his offspring. Jet Deck is in the Hall of Fame and sired only 8 foals - but collectively, those foals and offspring have earned over 6 million. Jet Deck was a King. His breeding can be found in several of AQHA's greatest - one Hunter that I love is Last Detail. I would think that a Jet Deck cross with a Bold Ruler TB would be interesting. June Warren the trainer who showed and stood Last Detail for many years, tells me that the Jet Deck horses are very good minded, athletic but sometimes can be small. Jet Deck breeding can be found as foundation in many of her horses.

Our Jet Deck mare is sired by Luck's Chic Gay - racing lines. Our mare is sweet, sensible and a very good mother - not hot at all. And - she has one eye! Many horses with limited vision can be tough to handle and our China is just a sweet, sweet girl.

Good luck to you!