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Help me help sister. Two male littermates fighting.

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  • Help me help sister. Two male littermates fighting.

    Yes i know. Been there. After a day was ready to give 2nd one back. She is non assertive.
    I have gotten so exasperated with her, that I told her you want perfect lap candy, you want a stuffed animal.
    We are two days in.husband wants to keep both.
  • Original Poster

    #2
    The dogs are 7 weeks old. Shitzu poodle.

    Comment


    • #3
      At 7 weeks old they are playing, not fighting. Puppies play rough. They will occasionally squabble but at that age its not serious. Let them work it out themselves.

      Comment


      • #4
        Why in the world does she have two 7-week old puppies to begin with?

        Unless the mother died, it would be better that they were still with her, because she teaches them manners. That's one reason it is advisable for puppies to stay with their mother until 8 weeks, although some breeders keep them even longer.

        Littermate syndrome can be an issue for dog owners, and most good breeders would not place littermates with novice dog owners. Even if she doesn't end up with littermate syndrome, she may have other issues -- puppies are hard. Two puppies are twice as hard....housebreaking and training x 2.

        I'm not sure I would assume they are just playing at this age if the squabbles are bad. Not all puppies have good temperaments. I would advise her to return the "aggressive" one to the breeder and keep the more docile one.

        Comment


        • #5
          Maybe they will work it out. Maybe not. At 7 weeks they should still be with mom to referee. Once had a litter of Std Poodle puppies. After weaning two of the males got into it. They were pretty serious, blood was drawn and one had to be pried off the other. Never could keep them together afterward or they would go back to fighting - didn't really try hard to get them to get along as it wasn't necessary and they eventually went to different homes.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Because they are cute. And her dream dogs. Yes I thought they were young. Got the first one, then husband had bright idea to get it a playmate. Neither knew about littermate issues. Breeder, well...
            I have been through once when I did not know either.

            I made it work but it was hard and they were much larger. Husband wants to keep both.

            I told her to get spray bottle with water.I told her one will be the dominant one and will be submissive. Part of this they will have to sort out.

            Sometimes you see your relatives in a different light, you know?

            Comment


            • #7
              They are very young but it should still be obvious that one is the dominant pup. Keep that order. Humans don't recognize/undermine that natural pack positioning and that upsets the natural balance. It is akin to adding a new horse to a herd every day. Always jostling. Dominant pup gets fed first, goes through doors first etc. When play gets too rough back in their crates. Since the husband thought this was such a great idea he needs to be involved. Each dog should get constructive time alone with both spouses. I don't believe in "let them work it out" as that often ends poorly. Once they fight for real you can't unring that bell. I think at 7 weeks that is a long way off but start being disciplined now and they may avoid that day.

              I don't know why people do this it makes it so hard. Littermates and same sex oh boy. Recipe for disaster with many breeds.
              "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                Why in the world does she have two 7-week old puppies to begin with?

                Unless the mother died, it would be better that they were still with her, because she teaches them manners. That's one reason it is advisable for puppies to stay with their mother until 8 weeks, although some breeders keep them even longer.

                Littermate syndrome can be an issue for dog owners, and most good breeders would not place littermates with novice dog owners. Even if she doesn't end up with littermate syndrome, she may have other issues -- puppies are hard. Two puppies are twice as hard....housebreaking and training x 2.

                I'm not sure I would assume they are just playing at this age if the squabbles are bad. Not all puppies have good temperaments. I would advise her to return the "aggressive" one to the breeder and keep the more docile one.
                This pretty much covers it. Nobody reputable is going to send two littermates to one family. And most toy breeders keep puppies until at least ten weeks if not 12.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A friend of mine got two female beagles from the same litter. The breeder was very hesitant. However friend's previous pair were a pair of female littermates so he had done this before. Since it was not his first rodeo the breeder allowed it.

                  These were his hunting beagles so were working dogs not just going to be pets. It has worked out. Violet & Daisy are best buddies.
                  But this was not a novice dog owner. These were working dogs and they were not only 7 weeks old when he picked them up. find with breeds that are bred to be kept in packs such as foxhounds, beagles, bassett hounds etc... they are bred with the idea that they need to get along well with other dogs. IME those that get into too many squabbles in the pack structure are not bred so don't pass on that attitude and may be culled or rehomed. So in this case the breed works to his advantage too.
                  Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    They are good dog owners, really. Had their pom for 14 years and it died 3 years ago. They both were heartsick.
                    They acquired it by accident when they lived in a previous area. It lived next door and dug a hole under the fence to come eat some cat food. It wasn't being fed,apparently. My brother in law ran to the store to get it some food. They fed it. It went back home under the fence, got its stuffed toy rabbit and came back to their house. Pretty much declared, I'm moving here. The owner let them have it.

                    I am going to observe the fighting/roughousing tonight and see what's what. She says they are doing better. I just don't know she has the confidence for this, but she really wants to try.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I spent a couple of hours with the puppies. If one is going lose all common sense with puppies, these two would be the ones.
                      going back over dog history, this is first time she has owned puppies. Or even a puppy. She is 64. Empowered by the squirt bottle of water. They are playing and play rough. The littlest will be the dominant one, it appears. He was the first one They got.
                      Her co worker who loudly proclaims knows all about dog and works with rescues,did not know about littermates and issues. Had placed second puppy with head of, get this,a rescue org.
                      my sister sent text and said I am keeping him after I gave sis good talking to.
                      this will be manageable. And she can do it. Thanks all.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        My sister sent me a text. Each dog now has own raft with canopy and a life jacket. I will keep brief. My sister has anxiety about growling dogs. I was attacked. And bitten badly when very young by family dog. I remember nothing. She does. She has much anxiety over. Also was paralysed when cat killed in front of her face by a dog. Whether this is good or bad I am not going to judge.each dog sleeps in king bed at night with sister and brother in law. They will have life of rileys. They have the funds to insure.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          They need to make a strong effort to work with each dog separately. Frequently. A lot. Enforced separation.

                          And yes, 7 weeks is WAY to young to remove a puppy from its mother. Damn those crappy breeders who are only in it for the money!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by accidental buckaroo View Post
                            I spent a couple of hours with the puppies. If one is going lose all common sense with puppies, these two would be the ones.
                            going back over dog history, this is first time she has owned puppies. Or even a puppy. She is 64. Empowered by the squirt bottle of water. They are playing and play rough. The littlest will be the dominant one, it appears. He was the first one They got.
                            Her co worker who loudly proclaims knows all about dog and works with rescues,did not know about littermates and issues. Had placed second puppy with head of, get this,a rescue org.
                            my sister sent text and said I am keeping him after I gave sis good talking to.
                            this will be manageable. And she can do it. Thanks all.
                            Well, all puppies are cute. I would encourage her to attend puppy/training classes when they are old enough and work each dogs separately, as Laura says. She needs to establish the rules and enforce them, especially because there are going to be two of them testing the boundaries. A good trainer sounds like a useful resource in this scenario since there are multiple issues already (her fears, one dominant puppy, and littermates.)

                            She should also talk to her vet about the proper age to neuter these males. I'm not a fan of early neutering but she needs to have a plan because not all unneutered dogs will get along. I own a father and son, both unneutered, and despite their usual good relationship I have had two fights, one of which was very scary. No injuries, but wow. This happened despite being careful; now I am extra careful in certain situations that could be stressful for them (e.g. food, other/strange dogs, and bitches in heat.) Mine are breeding quality show dogs so I do not want to neuter either of them (yet) but would be prepared to if necessary. But if they were not, I would not keep two unneutered males.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by accidental buckaroo View Post
                              My sister sent me a text. Each dog now has own raft with canopy and a life jacket. I will keep brief. My sister has anxiety about growling dogs. I was attacked. And bitten badly when very young by family dog. I remember nothing. She does. She has much anxiety over. Also was paralysed when cat killed in front of her face by a dog. Whether this is good or bad I am not going to judge.each dog sleeps in king bed at night with sister and brother in law. They will have life of rileys. They have the funds to insure.
                              Does each dog have a crate? Does she have gates to put at doorways in case of REAL fights?

                              I realize many sleep with dogs in their bed, but have her watch for dominance/resource guarding behavior with these two. Things could get nasty.

                              Buying toys and special 'stuff' is no substitute for training and socializing. I hope she takes your advice to heart about puppy classes and separation for training.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I had female Aussie littermates. They were not that young when weaned though and both were middle of a four puppy pack. My problem was not fighting but not paying attention to me in favor of sibling. I put them both through two levels of training and got their CGC. It was hard for a few weeks as the one left in the crate while the other was in class would whine. Same thing happened when I worked one at home with the other in the crate. After a few weeks, whining stopped and they did very well. I had them for 16 1/2 and 17 years. Lost the last one in April. Still miss them. Current puppy is apparently a part hound part Heeler and is not part of a littermate pair. I swore off doing that. One is hard enough!
                                Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Goethe

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Just an update, the puppies are doing great. They play rough as many mentioned. My sister has confidence. I am proud of her.thanks all for your contributions. All is well in the kingdom.

                                  Comment

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