Inappropriate urination

[teh_Kibbster]

I am getting pretty annoyed at this situation.

FWIW, Cat A has a vet appointment this weekend and we are doing a full work up.


I have 3 cats.
Cat A - 8-10 year old declawed spayed female.
Cat B - 8-10 year old spayed female. She is the dominant cat.
Cat C - 2-3 year old neutered male.

Cat A is a finicky eater. She is on dry and canned.
Cat B and C are on raw and canned.
Everyone is fed separately.

Cat A and C get along.
Cat B and C get along.
Cat A and B... tolerate each other.
The biggest problem is Cat A runs, so the others chase when they are feeling like playing. This makes Cat A, who is very shy and spends most of her life in my closet, feel the world is ending. It isn't true aggression, but Cat A doesn't really speak cat.

All cats have been living together since April 2015 (when we got the last one). Cat A and B have been together since February 2014 when I moved in with my now DH. All cats used to share a single litter box cleaned daily.

In November 2015, Cat A and C moved with me to the new condo.
End of December 2015 Cat B and DH moved into the new condo. DH has left again for work. He returns every 6 weeks.

Early January 2016 Cat A has diarrhea on my bed. I chalk it up to an accident (has never happened before).

Then last week there was cat pee on the bedroom floor. I get annoyed but again, accident?

Cat A pooped on bed yesterday, and I have had 4 more pee spots to clean in the last, say 21 days.

WTF?

There IS more chasing in this condo compared to the last one. It is more open concept so it's hard to disrupt line of sight. I have moved the furniture to help Cat A have more hiding places.

The new place has new litter boxes and litter (different litter - I cannot get the old stuff here at all - trust me I have tried). There are 2 litter boxes here.

If I have to, Cat A can return to my parents and live in my old bedroom (by choice - she doesn't venture out). I would rather not, as she is my favourite.

Any suggestions?

I won't have a litter box in the bedroom.

[vxf111]

Can you create a place for the timid cat that she can live by herself for a while until she gets settled into the new digs? With her own private litter box? It seems clear to me that she feels terrorized. Whether she tolerated it at the old place or not, she's scared now.

I suspect the timid one is holding it until she can't anymore and then letting go out of desperation. Or being ambushed and losing her control out of fear.

Places to hide aren't enough. She has to feel safe coming and going from the litterbox. Aggressive/harassing cats will ambush timid cats there.

I feel your pain. I have 2 cats that have to live separately. One lives in the master bedroom suite with her own litter and food/water. The other one has the rest of the house shared with the dog. I would love for them to live together but the larger one spent his younger years chasing and trying to beat up the smaller timid one and she will never forget, even if he's mellowed out.

Also FWIW I don't think 2 litter boxes is enough. The rule of thumb is one more than the number of cats. Ideally in different styles (covered vs. open) and with different litter.

[horsenut_8700]

Feliway- I would have a regular diffuser AND a multicat

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

A pheromone collar and daily Cosequin both improved my inappropriate pee-er quite a bit by helping him dealing with stress; adding a few large-ish cat trees around the house stopped my two cats from picking on each other.

Chewy.com has some awesome trees that are fairly inexpensive, with free 2 day shipping.

[Sannois]

She sounds VERY stressed. So many changes for a timid cat.
I have used the Felaway Pheromone Plug in in a few rooms in the house with great success. I used it by the Food bowls and also the community area. Living room.
I also agree with poster that said to make her a private spot for her and a litter box.
Curious how many litter boxes, when I had 3 cats I had 4 and they were all in different areas, really helped any problems. Good luck. It is hard to have a kitty that is not feeling comfortable.

[Simkie]

More boxes (at least 4!) Feliway diffuser. Pheromone collar. Cosequin. LOTS of hidey holes and high hides. Maybe prozac or other pharma help.

(But clear the kitty at the vet, first--glad she is going in.)

[TC3200]

My female likes the big cat playpen cage. I leave the door open so she can stay in or go out. Midwest Homes for Pets, Cat Playpen. Someone is selling them on eBay for $100 shipped.

[teh_Kibbster]

Been using Feliway since Cat B showed up in December. No change in any cat's behaviour (I got it for Cat B's clawing, Cat C's galloping, and Cat A's neurotic attitude). I feel I'm just spraying $$ around.

We have 3 cat scratching posts (cardboard, sisal and carpet, and cedar and carpet).

I got one more box on Wednesday or Thursday last week so we are up to 3. I genuinely mean it when I say there isn't space for another. I will not have a litter box in the bedroom (Husband's rules that I agree with). I got another litter (so we are using pine pellets, and now Yesterday's News).

I brought in a couch on Saturday which they can get behind and under. I also got a box spring and feet for it, so another thing to get under and over.

Did blood work this weekend. I got the works - diabetes, kidneys, thyroid, urine sample. They had me convinced she was diabetic - but all ranges within normal. Sodium was the high end of normal and potassium was the low end of normal.
We get urine results back on Tuesday or Wednesday this week.
Cat has not lost weight according to the scale. Vet wants to see her heavier - I explained this cat is an air fern and has never been a big eater even when she was the only cat.

So all fingers point to behaviour. Which means if the last changes of more hiding places and an additional box don't help - she is returning to my parents to have a bedroom to herself.

I can try a collar but I'm always worried about them hanging themselves.

Both Husband and I have grown up with older cats who "went senile" and started peeing everywhere. Despite drugs and modifications done by our parents, these cats were euthanized by our parents. Unfortunately neither of us tolerate this behaviour very well. Luckily DH isn't at home right now so we have some time to sort this out.

[Sannois]

Been using Feliway since Cat B showed up in December. No change in any cat's behaviour (I got it for Cat B's clawing, Cat C's galloping, and Cat A's neurotic attitude). I feel I'm just spraying $$ around.

We have 3 cat scratching posts (cardboard, sisal and carpet, and cedar and carpet).

I got one more box on Wednesday or Thursday last week so we are up to 3. I genuinely mean it when I say there isn't space for another. I will not have a litter box in the bedroom (Husband's rules that I agree with). I got another litter (so we are using pine pellets, and now Yesterday's News).

I brought in a couch on Saturday which they can get behind and under. I also got a box spring and feet for it, so another thing to get under and over.

Did blood work this weekend. I got the works - diabetes, kidneys, thyroid, urine sample. They had me convinced she was diabetic - but all ranges within normal. Sodium was the high end of normal and potassium was the low end of normal.
We get urine results back on Tuesday or Wednesday this week.
Cat has not lost weight according to the scale. Vet wants to see her heavier - I explained this cat is an air fern and has never been a big eater even when she was the only cat.

So all fingers point to behaviour. Which means if the last changes of more hiding places and an additional box don't help - she is returning to my parents to have a bedroom to herself.

I can try a collar but I'm always worried about them hanging themselves.

Both Husband and I have grown up with older cats who "went senile" and started peeing everywhere. Despite drugs and modifications done by our parents, these cats were euthanized by our parents. Unfortunately neither of us tolerate this behavior very well. Luckily DH isn't at home right now so we have some time to sort this out.

Ugh, I feel your pain. No that is not a behavior one can tolerate, no matter how big a cat lover you are.
It sounds like you are doing it all, I too draw the line at a litter box in the bed room anymore. I did it years ago for my old girl as she hated everyone. But I can appreciate that.
Just wondering, mine are so picky, I never change the brand or smell or texture of their litter. Have used the same for years. Some cats when faced with a litter they do not like texture or smell they will resort to places outside the box. Just for grins try her litter that she was using when not being naughty in one box. Worth a try. I know you want to pull your hair out, You love them and wish you could just ask them what the problem is. So frustrating.
Good luck, keep us posted!

[xQHDQ]

It sounds like you really need a litter box in the bedroom. This may be a temporary situation. Once the cat is using the litterbox again, move it further and further out of the bedroom. Or close off the bedroom so they can't get in there.

[vxf111]

If you can't give his cat her own room with her own litterbox, then you're better off re-homing her (either with your parents or other).

Not to be mean (I get it, I've been there) but how would you like it if the only place you had to be free from abuse was hiding underneath something? It's nice that she has places to hide, but she needs a safe space where she can move around freely and use the litterbox without fear of being attacked, not to hide under the couch all day and then make a terrified mad dash that doesn't make it when she can't hold it a second longer.

No one wants to have a litterbox in the bedroom, but if that's the only room you can close the door to (no bathroom? laundry room?) then it's either that or rehome a cat. I'd be tempted to rehome the NOT timid one because she'll be a more attractive rehome but it's up to you.

It's not a fun situation. I've been there. I am sorry if this seems harsh but it's not fair to let this situation continue. A place for her to hide under isn't enough.

[Simkie]

The pheromone collars are breakaway. And cheap. It's really worth picking up a three pack and seeing what happens. I do have one cat who is very different (in a good way!) with them.

Is all your litter pelleted? Try something with a different texture in one box. Clumping clay--cat attract would be ideal.

Vertical space is important to cats--big time. It's not all about getting UNDER stuff, it's about getting ON TOP of stuff. Provide more vertical space for happier kitties.

Regarding boxes, it's not all about having them in separate locations. Can you fit another box right next to one of your existings? It would be worth adding another that way if so.

Anti-anxiety drugs can be dosed on the ear flap transdermally and may be great for this kitty, too.

[Justmyluck]

Number of cats +1 = number of litter boxes you should have and they should all be spaced out.

The next thing is that you need to create vertical space so that there is more room all around. Think cat trees, window shelves ect. You don't want hinding spaces you want escape routes.

Then a calming collar on cat A.

[DakotaTA]

I am cat-sitting for a friend and, for now at least, have both cats and their equipment in my bedroom. They came with an automatic litter box which works really well.

https://www.litter-robot.com/the-lit...FYIcHwodoo8J-w

The cat uses it, then 7 minutes later after kitty is out and the litter has time to clump, it cycles and dumps the litter into the pan below where it can be removed. Absolutely no smell from the thing at all. This may make a bedroom litter box more acceptable, although the cats seem to use the darn thing at 3 AM and it is kind of noisy. You start out with some of the litter from the previous box and then, once the cat is using it, you change it out to clean litter.

These cats are quite shy, having been abused at their previous foster home, and it is taking quite a while to get them to join the rest of us. The older male has made it into the living room, but the young female is rarely seen and will only come out from under the bed (she lives IN my box spring that I didn't even know had a hole in the cover) when none of my own cats are around. She does come out to use this litter box, though.

Just a thought of a possible solution.

[In the Air]

If you have a laundry room or a spare room, put a cat door in it. The type that is controlled by the collar. Have a litter box in there for her private use and space.

[teh_Kibbster]

I think there may be some confusion. I live in a CONDO. My life consists of 3 rooms - bedroom, living/dining/kitchen, bathroom. The bathroom is maybe 8x10. You can't get a king size bed in the bedroom it's too small. The grand total of this condo is maybe 750-800 sq ft if you count the balcony. The joys of big city living. I can't cut holes in things and I really don't have the space for a 4th box.

It's not an ideal situation for 3 cats. I am the first to admit it. Hell, it's not an ideal situation for a person!

I cannot have the litter box in the bedroom due to DH's asthma. And because frankly, it's gross. Litter tracked through the sheets, smelling the cat's pee at 2am when they decide they have to go. Not sanitary. My health is more important. The dust and ammonia in a tiny space where I spend 10 hours a day? Nope. DH made the rule when we moved in together (I had a litter box in my bedroom growing up) and I agree with him. That bedroom was easily a quarter of this entire condo!

We have 3 boxes and now 3 brands of litter. A generic clumping clay, pine pellets, and yesterday's news. All cats are using the pellets over the clay. Unfortunately, I cannot get the litter that we had when all 3 shared a box in a different province. Although it is made in Ontario, it's not stocked here. I even contacted the plant that makes it - they won't sell to an individual.

The cats have vertical height with scratchers and posts. They have adopted my one wing-back chair which is fine. The couch gives some options.

Got back the urine results yesterday and the cat is the picture of health. So it's behavioural.

It's been almost a week since the addition of the third box so that may have done the trick. Cat A and C use the new box.

The only cat I can rehome is Cat C and he is the peacemaker. If I get rid of Cat B - DH will get a divorce
Cat C has actually been an amazing accident that he will burn off Cat B's energy and keep her active. He then goes and cuddles with Cat A in the closet.
Again, Cat A and B do not fight. But Cat A is a 9lb petite female and Cat B is about 18lbs and a very large female (she's overweight by 3lbs but her frame is very big = every vet has said he until they examine her).

Cat A - if necessary - will go back to that large bedroom with a box in it in my parents house. We can bring her back into the trio when we purchase a house in the next year and can give more individual space to the kitters. That's our temporary solution. Parents are on board with this.

I can close off the bedroom in the condo, but I feel this is not fair to Cat A. I've had her 7 years now and she has always lived in my closet, even when she and I were alone in an apartment together. She has a small world.

I don't mean to sound like I'm shooting all suggestions down, but really, this isn't my first rodeo. I had a status quo with these 3 which no longer works. I accept that. I had made changes before I posted here (adding boxes, changing litter, more hiding spots). We still had accidents so I turned here for other experiences.

I will try the collars if they are breakaway and may get a diffuser for the Feliway as I only have the spray bottle to put on couches and things. Has anyone noticed a difference in using a diffuser vs. spraying furniture? Just wondering if I should invest the $20 for the magic plastic contraption.

Is there a specific type of drug I should ask for to help Cat A relax?

FWIW, Cat A just initiated a play session with the other 2. That's what makes this so frustrating. She's awesome. Then she slinks around like a weirdo randomly, which makes the other two think it's play time and chase me. Then the sky is falling and world is ending

Cats....

[Pep 'n' Ann]

Can you order the old litter online? I would also try the cat attract litter. It worked wonders for my girl

[vxf111]

I was also in a 750 sf apartment with 3 cats when the bullying got unbearable. I tried Feliway, hiding spots galore, and prozac. $2000 consult with Penn's behavioralist department. Nothing helped enough to see a difference.

http://s5.photobucket.com/user/vxf11...2_IMG.jpg.html
The large ragdoll is the bully. The calico got along with both because she didn't run when chased. The tiger cat was (and is) in mortal fear of the ragdoll because he chased her. Same situation as yours.

What I did do was barricade off parts of the apartment. I had a bathroom, bedroom, living area, and kitchen. I took a very tall baby gate and blocked off the hallway, in essence dividing the area in half. That let me have one litterbox in the bathroom and one in the kitchen. Ideal, no. The last thing I wanted was a litterbox in the kitchen (IMHO that's WORSE than the bedroom) but it's what I had to do. That was not ideal but that was the only way I could get stasis with 2 cats that didn't get along.

http://s5.photobucket.com/user/vxf11...agues.jpg.html

http://s5.photobucket.com/user/vxf11...ygate.jpg.html (note that metal is sturdier than wood)

In other houses I found other ways to split the space. One place I opened a door and latched it against the wall to create a barrier. In another I used a tall cat cage to bock off an entryway. Unless you are in a studio, there must be some way to divide up the space. Even if one area is small, you can always do "swaps" and let them switch sides for a while so everyone gets time in the large area (and with the so-existing cat they both like).

[EKLay]

Not sure if cat shelves are do-able in a condo, but that's what I think of when I think of vertical space. Not sure if your scratchers/posts are large enough for them to use as a getaway/safe space to hang out?

Jackson Galaxy has some neat suggestions for making sure space is open ended, safe, and maximizes available real estate from a cat's point of view. He's also got a ton of suggestions for helping with behavior issues!

http://jacksongalaxy.com/learn/

[Simkie]

Not sure if cat shelves are do-able in a condo, but that's what I think of when I think of vertical space. Not sure if your scratchers/posts are large enough for them to use as a getaway/safe space to hang out?

Yeah, totally agree. teh kib, unless your scratching posts are enormous, they're not counting as "vertical space." Think shoulder (human) height or taller.

Did anyone look at the urine, or was it just cultured? Sterile cystitis won't grow anything (it's sterile) but can still make a cat miserable. So can crystals and stones. Cosequin really is inexpensive and generally pretty darn effective at soothing the bladder. I try to keep all of my kitties on it as cheap insurance against pee stuff.

I've used prozac and buspar for anxiety kitties, but it's been a long time and there might be better options now.

I'd definitely give the feliway plug in a try.