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The No Kill Movement

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  • The No Kill Movement

    I have some concerns with the No Kill Movement. Although it's a laudable effort, I'm beginning to be a bit concerned about how they get to their no kill numbers.

    For instance, a friend of mine just posted a request for transport from Louisville to Chicago because the no kill shelter is full and she's been told there's a shortage of adoptable dogs in Chicago.

    I'm fully aware that there is an unwanted pet problem in Chicago as well. What's going on?

    http://www.chicagonow.com/raining-ca...uppy-shortage/

  • #2
    My only comment is based on the picture of the KC Pet Project at the bottom. They have done something I (and many others) thought was impossible. That group took over the city, open admission shelter. It serves an urban area and a number of the dogs are pit bulls or pit bull mixes. The shelter is located in a dilapidated old building in a bad area. They have drastically increased adoption rates through a satellite adoption location and adopter friendly policies and procedures. If anyone in the area is looking for a dog, cat, or another type of animal, I would encourage them to check this shelter out.

    Comment


    • #3
      read again- shortage of PUPPIES, not pets. Most dogs who end up in shelters are age 6 months to 3 years, and no one wants them. They want PUPPIES, aka 8 week to 12 week old critters, many of whom will get dumped in turn when they stop being puppies.
      Same with our area- shelters are full of dumped adolescents, no one wants them, and they end up importing puppies from the south.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Yes, but the rescue is not moving puppies, they are moving dogs.

        Comment


        • #5
          I can say, when the no-kill shelters started up, I was helping in our local animal control shelter.
          We watched as those with the no-kill labels were getting all kinds of donations and grants right and left from all kinds of places, foundations and such and practically running a dog warehouse with that money.

          One lady doing so, with 60 dogs, said "try it, it paid better than farming".
          She had a table by us in our Muttfest days and adopted a few dogs a year only, they were her meal ticket thru running the non-profit paid for by donations and foundation grants and she liked them, why keep adopting them out and replacing them with unknown ones.

          We were looking at those no-kill shelters and, admitting at least their dogs were not dead, well, some of those warehoused for many years, as they were too aggressive or otherwise unadoptable, to us, they were using the place of a dog that was being euthanized that could have had a chance to be adopted if we had their kind of money to keep them around more than a few days, money they took away from us with their no-kill label.
          Not only that, we were their dumping ground to send people to because they were always full.
          One had adoption hours of 2 to 4 pm on Tuesdays.
          No wonder they didn't adopt many dogs.

          I am sure there are plenty of no-kill shelters out there that really do a great job, but they still are sending their overflow to the ones that then have to euthanize them, so they really are not that much of a "no-kill" shelter as they want to appear.

          What we need to realize is that the world is not perfect and is not going to be perfect.
          There are always going to be abusers, abused, poor and those in dire circumstances, for all kinds of reasons, humans and other animals.

          We need to work to make those the least we can make them and, understanding there will always be some of that, work at programs to help with that.

          Eliminating this or that to avoid that nothing is perfect, like animal rights extremist do wanting to eliminate uses of animals, or as some of them say and sadly mean it, absurd as it seems, eliminate humans and then we would not have those problems.
          Well, where does that make any sense?

          No-kill labels are really not much more than a marketing ploy for donations and a feel good way to help some dogs, while ignoring the reality that not all dogs can or will or should be adopted to the general public and that warehousing dogs may not be the best use of those resources.

          That money is better spent in programs like the Turken shelter program, that gives suitable dogs time to be evaluated, have some training and so a better chance of being adopted and more important, make the carefully thought out adoption work for all, the family and dog.

          Others evidently disagree.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
            I am sure there are plenty of no-kill shelters out there that really do a great job, but they still are sending their overflow to the ones that then have to euthanize them
            In many cases, but KC Pet Project is still open admission. There open admission no kill shelters. Obviously if a dog is too aggressive to be placed, euthanasia is the right choice.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Casey09 View Post
              In many cases, but KC Pet Project is still open admission. There open admission no kill shelters. Obviously if a dog is too aggressive to be placed, euthanasia is the right choice.
              I'm going to have to agree with Bluey. I'm finding many of those that are still open admission require an appointment to surrender a dog and a fee.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Casey09 View Post
                In many cases, but KC Pet Project is still open admission. There open admission no kill shelters. Obviously if a dog is too aggressive to be placed, euthanasia is the right choice.
                Yes, but is that then a true "no-kill" to be advertised as such, to compete for donations and grants with the rest of us?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I love the idea of No Kill. However, until there is wholesale spaying and neutering, I think it is impossible. The non-public shelters don't have to take every animal surrendered; they can take what has a reasonable chance of being adopted. In the middle of kitten season, public shelters are overwhelmed with new born and bottle baby kittens, and they have to be put down, as there aren't the resources to care for them. That applies to puppies as well, although not quite the seasonal volume. They also have to take special needs, and dogs with poor temperaments.
                  Mystic Owl Sporthorses
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                  • #10
                    I volunteer foster for three incredible rescues. They pull adoptable dogs from kill shelters if they feel they can place the dogs. I just got five Chihuahuas from a horrid breeder and all but one were adopted in a week. I think what they do is miraculous. There is no way we can ever be totally no-kill unless every dog or cat was neutered at birth. I carry a bag of dry dog food in my truck and constantly stop and feed feral dogs. THAT is the problem, folks. Span and neuter your pets, rescue from shelters and support the ones that do great things. Euthanasia is not the worst thing that can happen to a dog, believe me. I support it if done with love, and by injection. Gassing is another thing, reminiscent of Auschwitz. So very wrong.
                    SPAY/NEUTER/RESCUE/ADOPT!
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What I find annoying is that some rescues snatch the most adoptable dogs from the shelters. Some (not all) then have a list of requirements for potential adopters that rivals a background screen for employment with the CIA. Still more charge ridiculous "adoption fees".

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mara View Post
                        What I find annoying is that some rescues snatch the most adoptable dogs from the shelters. Some (not all) then have a list of requirements for potential adopters that rivals a background screen for employment with the CIA. Still more charge ridiculous "adoption fees".
                        You mean the breed rescues? Yes we do. We snatch them, we vet them and we do a background screen and and follow-ups. You know why, because 6 months after an adoption (without follow-up and screening), one out of every 10 animals has either been returned or is gone (rehomed, lost, dumped).

                        High fees? When it includes spay/neuter, all vaccinations and microchip, it's probably less expensive than a do it yourself adoption.

                        ***We take the seniors, the sick and the injured too. The adoption fees for the young and healthy help support the vet fees for the old, sick and injured.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                          You mean the breed rescues? Yes we do. We snatch them, we vet them and we do a background screen and and follow-ups. You know why, because 6 months after an adoption (without follow-up and screening), one out of every 10 animals has either been returned or is gone (rehomed, lost, dumped).

                          High fees? When it includes spay/neuter, all vaccinations and microchip, it's probably less expensive than a do it yourself adoption.
                          Not always the breed rescues - there are a couple around here who keep eyes out for any puppies/young dogs with good temperaments. If it would make a good family dog - these rescues go for it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wendy View Post
                            read again- shortage of PUPPIES, not pets. Most dogs who end up in shelters are age 6 months to 3 years, and no one wants them. They want PUPPIES, aka 8 week to 12 week old critters, many of whom will get dumped in turn when they stop being puppies.
                            Same with our area- shelters are full of dumped adolescents, no one wants them, and they end up importing puppies from the south.
                            No, quite a few northern shelters take in adult dogs from the south. Our border collie/hound mix came from west virginia with his sister as a 1 year old. They came with a group of about 15 other dogs. Poor dog had spent 7 months in a shelter! He obviously was not very adoptable in the south, but we adopted him within 2 weeks of him coming to our local shelter. His sister had already been adopted.


                            I like shelters that have no time limit, but not strict no-kill shelters. IMO, aggressive dogs or dogs that need $$$$ treatments should be humanely euthanized, opening up spots and money to bring in new, more adoptable dogs. It drives me crazy to see a shelter trying to raise thousands of dollars for one dog. Think of how many dogs could be helped with that money!

                            Our local shelter keeps animals for as long it takes. Often times, dogs or cats that are there for long periods of time (8+months) will end up being adopted by a volunteer, or go on TV.
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You know, if everyone wants puppies, not dogs, why don't they get small dogs that stay puppy-like? That was my sister's biggest complaint about my small dogs...to her they still acted like puppies, and she didn't like that. (She has working breed dogs). I know I like little dogs--my current one is a cocker spaniel, and he's about the biggest I would want to go--and I love the fact that he still loves to play with his toys, and sits on the couch with me, etc. When I had my Chihuahua I loved that he was little and cuddly and liked to sit in my lap. It would seem that if people want puppies because they are little and cute, they should pick dogs that stay that way, then there wouldn't be so many unwanted ones.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I'm not a fan of the no kill shelters. I used to be, until I went to adopt a cat. Elderly, maimed, unhappy warehoused animals living in a 100 cat colony that STANK. And this is a so called reputable shelter. And they gave me a hard time about wanting to adopt because I chose to put down an elderly cat with kidney failure and a poor prognosis before he became completely miserable instead of fighting to the bitter end.

                                I ended up adopting from another program that actually brings animals up from the states, fosters them, and then sends them out to pet store adoption programs.
                                "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There are two rescues with no kill shelters near where I used to live. One had almost exclusively puppy mill animals, the adults that were the breeding animals, and when they were too old, the rescue took them. I think this only encouraged the mill to keep going. The second was great, but also no kill, and they had a few animals their entire life, kept in groups, outdoors (but in good conditions, please don't think I object to that), and some were there for years. I know of one that was returned by adopters many times, and the rescue finally stopped even trying to adopt her out. I don't think an animal should spend it's entire life in a wire cage. I know it was a good environment otherwise, but I don't think a sick, or unadoptable animal should spend it's entire life in a kennel like that. Either adopt them out, or put them down humanely.
                                  You can't fix stupid-Ron White

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Our adoption lady in our shelter used to tell us that yes, the no-kill shelters were not the best way to go about this and took resources the rest need, but that they were also people doing what they felt they had to do, the way they had to do it, for what they believed.

                                    That didn't mean the ones that took advantage of that were ok, but the ones that honestly were running no-kill shelters were doing good work, if in our opinion, misguided.

                                    In reality, it is incredible that we have this situation where millions of small animals are unwanted, needing controlling and so many end up just being killed.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I fostered for a rescue in Buffalo NY and 3 out of the 5 that I fostered were out of state transports. One came from Miami and was literally on his last walk to the gas chamber when he was pulled (I kept this one), and two came from WV. Those were big transports, I think 21 dogs came up from Florida and 12 came from WV. The rescue placed them all.

                                      The other two that I fostered came from the city shelter and were deemed unadoptable by them but I had no problems with them and they were soon happily adopted.

                                      Transports do happen.
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                                      • #20
                                        At least around here, "no kill" shelters have two issues
                                        1 always full rarely adopt out
                                        2 they are no kill of ADOPTABLE animals- and they get to decide who is adoptable. too young, too old, too ugly, too agressive, wrong breed, too hyper, etc etc are all "unadoptable" and don't count as kills
                                        ~Former Pet Store Manager (10yrs)
                                        ~Vintage Toy Dealer (rememberswhen.us)
                                        ~Vet Tech Student
                                        Mom to : 1 Horse, 4 Dogs, 3 Cats

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