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animal overpopulation

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  • #21
    Originally posted by mommy peanut View Post
    How many of those dogs you pull are from quality bloodlines? Few to none I'd bet.
    Any responsible breeder will take a dog back if it's owner can no longer keep it.
    I don't care the reasoning or the age, if one of "my" dogs needs to be rehomed, it comes back to me. All dogs are sold with a tattoo & microchip registered to me, so if by some chance it ended up in a shelter, I would pop up as the contact.
    However as I screen my buyers thoroughly & keep in touch with them, I don't see that happening
    Now that's true. There are really good, responsible breeders out there and they will always take a dog back. Unfortunately, there are way too many who aren't responsible, who breed their pet to someone else's pet thinking they can make a few bucks. They're the ones advertising on craigslist or with signs taped to poles or selling the puppies in the Walmart parking lot.

    Responsible breeders have their puppies spoken for before they are born.

    Comment


    • #22
      I prefer crossbred dogs on the whole. My heart and soul belongs to my chihuahua pug cross. And I did breed her to my pug. She had a litter of 3/4 pug babies who had noses and could BREATHE.

      So, I get it, I really do- but the overpopulation issue is usually thoughtlessly bred for a profit dogs, and/or ignorant backyard owners who let fluffy get loose. Very very few purpose bred puppies, placed before birth, on lifetime contracts, end up in rescue. And I know of several rescues that are SO anti breeder that they refuse to call us if one of our dogs does land with them, which isn;t helping.
      ~Former Pet Store Manager (10yrs)
      ~Vintage Toy Dealer (rememberswhen.us)
      ~Vet Tech Student
      Mom to : 2 Horses, 4 Dogs, 2 Cats

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        None of the suggestions in this thread help the animals who are currently in shelters.

        Comment


        • #24
          When my dog died I spent a lot of time on the rescue site, pet finder, etc. Walked through the shelter (on my road to work) many times. There just wasn't much to pick from. I have rescue cats (lots!) and cannot have a high prey dog (been there, done that with terrible consequences). I can't really afford a large dog (those HW and flea meds!!) or really have the strength, time or energy to train one properly. I am not home enough for a puppy even if I could afford the prices of a purebred. Almost all of the dogs available around here are large and mixed of the following 3 in any amount, pit bull type, hound, lab. None of which fit my circumstances no matter how nice they may be. Of course taking from the pound you have NO IDEA what that dog is really like. Had many good "saves" over the years and a couple really bad ones. You just don't know until something happens, then it is too late. The other choices are small dogs of Chihuahua and terrier heritage. I will admit I do not like EITHER breed/type, in any amount! I've known some cute Chihuahuas but even the nice ones are much too yappy for me and I've never been a small terrier person.

          LONG story short, the pounds are not full of purebreds (although they do come through they are a minority and around here nowhere near the 25% you hear tossed about) but mixes. Big mixes, often dog/animal aggressive, almost always untrained in any degree. They are produced by irresponsible owners who simply let them breed willy nilly. Some for profit, most just because they are lazy a**hats!

          I eventually decided I did not really need another dog anyway. I'd wait for one to fall into my lap and if one never does, oh well, I have plenty of cats!
          Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

          Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by shayaalliard View Post
            I prefer crossbred dogs on the whole. My heart and soul belongs to my chihuahua pug cross. And I did breed her to my pug. She had a litter of 3/4 pug babies who had noses and could BREATHE.

            So, I get it, I really do- but the overpopulation issue is usually thoughtlessly bred for a profit dogs, and/or ignorant backyard owners who let fluffy get loose. Very very few purpose bred puppies, placed before birth, on lifetime contracts, end up in rescue. And I know of several rescues that are SO anti breeder that they refuse to call us if one of our dogs does land with them, which isn;t helping.
            Seriously this above. Nobody is dumping Lassie at the pound.
            Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

            Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Coyoteco View Post
              None of the suggestions in this thread help the animals who are currently in shelters.
              Honestly, although sad, euthanasia is not a wholly bad solution.
              We have too many bad dogs. It's not their fault- they were born that way or bred that way or made that way by people. But they are broken and sometimes it's kinder to let them go.

              The solution to too many dogs isn;t stop breeding dogs, its start training people. You want to help the dogs currently in shelters- go train them. Like horses, if they are trainable and get that training, there are homes. If they are not trainable for whatever reason, then let them go.

              I know on a case by case basis its hard. Its almost impossible. I just adopted two senior dogs who pretty much know nothing. I am trying to find a home for the most ugly badly bred shelter dog you could imagine. I CARE. But the GSD at the pound that day who snarled at us, or the chihuahua mix that BIT ME at the shelter? Let them go- and spend the extra time and energy training the ones who have a real chance.
              ~Former Pet Store Manager (10yrs)
              ~Vintage Toy Dealer (rememberswhen.us)
              ~Vet Tech Student
              Mom to : 2 Horses, 4 Dogs, 2 Cats

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #27
                Originally posted by shayaalliard View Post
                Honestly, although sad, euthanasia is not a wholly bad solution.
                We have too many bad dogs. It's not their fault- they were born that way or bred that way or made that way by people. But they are broken and sometimes it's kinder to let them go.

                The solution to too many dogs isn;t stop breeding dogs, its start training people. You want to help the dogs currently in shelters- go train them. Like horses, if they are trainable and get that training, there are homes. If they are not trainable for whatever reason, then let them go.

                I know on a case by case basis its hard. Its almost impossible. I just adopted two senior dogs who pretty much know nothing. I am trying to find a home for the most ugly badly bred shelter dog you could imagine. I CARE. But the GSD at the pound that day who snarled at us, or the chihuahua mix that BIT ME at the shelter? Let them go- and spend the extra time and energy training the ones who have a real chance.
                I could not disagree with you more. You say "I CARE" but reading the post, I cannot tell what you care about - certainly not individual dogs.

                It seems that a lot of this thread is directed toward increasing the price of pet dogs.

                eta - I do think that dogs in shelters should receive the training and rehab they need - but they still need homes and that's where allowing people to own more animals as you yourself do - so they can provide a home for another dog or cat comes in.

                Comment


                • #28
                  I don't know anybody who would be a perfect home for more animals than they have but is legally unable to adopt more animals for zoning reasons. Seriously. That is just not a realistic reason.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Coyoteco View Post
                    It seems that a lot of this thread is directed toward increasing the price of pet dogs.
                    ?? How on earth did you get to that conclusion??

                    The problems are pretty simple, the answers not so much.

                    "Overpopulation" is caused by people who a) allow their dogs to reproduce because they don't spay or neuter; b) deliberately breed for profit without having homes lined up; c) puppy mills that breed like crazy and produce puppies with ill health/poor temperament; and d) PEOPLE -- some that don't have the commitment, understanding, resources, whatever, to care for a pet for life, and not turn into a) b) or c).

                    But...the answer to those problems is probably not zoning. To be honest I haven't the slightest idea what my zoning allows, and doubt anyone around me does either. If zoning allows for 3 dogs and someone has 4....I doubt anyone actually cares unless the dogs are bad. But thinking that allowing 15 Chihuahuas in a city is helping overpopulation...probably not really helping.

                    What else can we do....? Push the spay/neuter agenda, maybe consider laws that restrict puppy mill activities, buy from good breeders and encourage our friends to do the same...these activities will help the problem of overpopulation. Finding solutions to housing all the dogs currently in shelters doesn't actually address the problem, but could almost be argued that it supports overpopulation by finding solutions to people's stupidity.

                    As for the people....not sure how you change stupid. We can all do our best to help educate people we know....

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by shayaalliard View Post
                      I prefer crossbred dogs on the whole. My heart and soul belongs to my chihuahua pug cross. And I did breed her to my pug. She had a litter of 3/4 pug babies who had noses and could BREATHE.

                      So, I get it, I really do- but the overpopulation issue is usually thoughtlessly bred for a profit dogs....Very very few purpose bred puppies, placed before birth, on lifetime contracts, end up in rescue
                      I know I shouldn't...but I can't help myself. I can't see how you can put these two statements into one post. You bred a pug to a mutt. How is that a purpose bred puppy? Did you have all of them placed before birth? With health guarantees?

                      Sorry but to me this is a prime example of one of the causes of overpopulation.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by IdahoRider View Post
                        Only if that responsible breeder knows the dog is in need. I talked with a young woman who was surrendering her purebred, 7 month old German Shepherd Dog. I came up to chat with her after she had finished the paperwork and she described the long, drawn out process she went through to purchase the puppy from the breeder. I asked if she had called the breeder when she decided to surrender the puppy and she said No, she had been too embarrassed to contact the breeder after swearing up and down when she purchased the puppy that she was ready.
                        Sheilah
                        This is true!
                        I know firsthand of an instance like this. The owners were heading to the pound with the dog. My daughter (who knew the owners) told me they were taking the dog to the pound the next day. We took the dog in ourselves and were subsequently able to contact the breeder who quickly arranged a wonderful new home in her area for this fabulous young dog.
                        The breeder told me that the owners had passed her screening process, had made the 13 hour drive to pick up the pup, and had kept in contact for the first year - but hadn't corresponded with her in a few months.
                        This sweet, spayed dog was less than 2 years old, and the breeder was very upset that the purchaser/owner hadn't contacted her to say there was a problem.
                        The breeder did everything right, The owner did not.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Coyoteco View Post
                          None of the suggestions in this thread help the animals who are currently in shelters.
                          You have to have a two pronged approach. We need low cost spay and neuter programs, maybe a carrot for spay and neuter (gift cards) and a strong push to adopt out the animals in shelters.

                          Without spay and neuter, there's a never ending supply.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            You would be amazed at the wonderful dogs that end up in shelters. I see it everyday as I work in a animal shelter. These dogs aren't "flawed", they aren't faulty in anyway. They just happened to end up with people who should not have dogs. I have seen some of the nicest dogs in the world come through our doors.
                            Dogs get surrendered for a variety of reasons, but mostly because the guardians were not prepared for them.

                            Spay and neuter is a huge thing, that needs to happen more. People also need to be educated better, in terms of vet care and training. Very few people have the knowledge to train a dog well and make it become a solid citizen.

                            People need to adopt and not shop. They need low cost spay/neuter and low cost vaccinations.

                            Also, during hard times people need the means to be able to get low cost to no cost dog food and other supplies.
                            "No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world."
                            -Dead Poets Society

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #34
                              Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                              You have to have a two pronged approach. We need low cost spay and neuter programs, maybe a carrot for spay and neuter (gift cards) and a strong push to adopt out the animals in shelters.

                              Without spay and neuter, there's a never ending supply.
                              Of course you do, but one side is being addressed and one side is not. The purpose of my starting this thread was to bring this serious problem to the attention of people who apparently have never thought of it. It is so far out of the thought processes of animal people that many are having a hard time even comprehending the idea. Almost every person on this board has more animals than are legal in MANY, MANY jurisdictions around the country. And the first respond to being able to own more than two dogs is "hoarder". We have some serious ignorance about this issue and it needs to be evaluated.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                Originally posted by MustangSavvy View Post
                                You would be amazed at the wonderful dogs that end up in shelters. I see it everyday as I work in a animal shelter. These dogs aren't "flawed", they aren't faulty in anyway. They just happened to end up with people who should not have dogs. I have seen some of the nicest dogs in the world come through our doors.
                                Dogs get surrendered for a variety of reasons, but mostly because the guardians were not prepared for them.

                                Spay and neuter is a huge thing, that needs to happen more. People also need to be educated better, in terms of vet care and training. Very few people have the knowledge to train a dog well and make it become a solid citizen.

                                People need to adopt and not shop. They need low cost spay/neuter and low cost vaccinations.

                                Also, during hard times people need the means to be able to get low cost to no cost dog food and other supplies.
                                Absolutely wonderful dogs are in pounds and are destroyed every day. Many of the "dangerous" ones are mischaracterized, often intentionally.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                                  ?? How on earth did you get to that conclusion??

                                  The problems are pretty simple, the answers not so much.

                                  "Overpopulation" is caused by people who a) allow their dogs to reproduce because they don't spay or neuter; b) deliberately breed for profit without having homes lined up; c) puppy mills that breed like crazy and produce puppies with ill health/poor temperament; and d) PEOPLE -- some that don't have the commitment, understanding, resources, whatever, to care for a pet for life, and not turn into a) b) or c).

                                  But...the answer to those problems is probably not zoning. To be honest I haven't the slightest idea what my zoning allows, and doubt anyone around me does either. If zoning allows for 3 dogs and someone has 4....I doubt anyone actually cares unless the dogs are bad. But thinking that allowing 15 Chihuahuas in a city is helping overpopulation...probably not really helping.

                                  What else can we do....? Push the spay/neuter agenda, maybe consider laws that restrict puppy mill activities, buy from good breeders and encourage our friends to do the same...these activities will help the problem of overpopulation. Finding solutions to housing all the dogs currently in shelters doesn't actually address the problem, but could almost be argued that it supports overpopulation by finding solutions to people's stupidity.

                                  As for the people....not sure how you change stupid. We can all do our best to help educate people we know....
                                  Do you not understand that a person cannot adopt a dog if they have two cats because of zoning regulations? Do you not understand that that has an impact on the dog that the family wants to adopt but zoning regulations prohibit their adopting it?

                                  It's not about seizure of the third animal, though that does happen. It's about the inability of the family to adopt another animal out of a pound.

                                  You talk spay neuter, new laws restricting breeding, and all that as though it is a new idea. That has been being done for decades. You need to think of NEW ideas, recognize existing problems that have not been addressed in the past.

                                  So you think destroying animals HELPS you and PROMOTES your arguments?! You actually want the existing good animals to be killed?

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by Highflyer View Post
                                    I don't know anybody who would be a perfect home for more animals than they have but is legally unable to adopt more animals for zoning reasons. Seriously. That is just not a realistic reason.
                                    Then you are uninformed about the situation. That is one reason for this thread.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by summerhorse View Post
                                      Seriously this above. Nobody is dumping Lassie at the pound.
                                      This is not true. "Lassie" is dumped and then destroyed at the pound every day in this country. Even when I was a kid a true "Lassie" was dumped in our neighborhood - beautiful, perfect female rough collie who was older. We took her in so that she didn't end up at the pound.

                                      But, every single day there is a perfect dog killed at the pound. Fortunately, there are many breed rescues that come in an rescue them from the pound, but many times they are full or the dog is not undeniably pure bred, or maybe they are getting into the "what are its bloodlines" analysis that some posters here do.

                                      Great purebred dogs die every day, often because of these zoning regulations.

                                      eta - and don't forget that most dogs are misidentified by pound personnel. That purebred dog may be called something entirely different than its breed.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        How much of the number of animal restriction is really done as a zoning regulation versus a home owner association restrictions? If it is done at the HOA well too bad for the property owner. They knew the restrictions before they purchased the property. Abide by them or move. Most of those restrictions don't change much after purchase.

                                        Zoning is tougher since the township supervisors can vote in changes at any time. Zoning regulations tend to be much more extensive and hard to access all of them prior to purchase. If I purchase the zoning regs for my township it is hundreds of pages long. Easy to miss something like number of pet restrictions in that much legalize. Especially I would not expect to find restrictions on my 2 acre property.

                                        I personally would not buy a property that had a HOA because I do not like many of the restrictions placed on them.
                                        However, I understand why those restrictions may be necessary. Many of times in my area there is a HOA with the high density housing- townhomes, condos, multiple houses on each acre. When there are that many people in close proximity there need to be more rules so that people don't piss off their neighbors or drive the value of their neighbor's property down.
                                        I understand zoning restricting the number of animals in certain urban/town areas. It is all about home values and not annoying your neighbors. When you live on top of each other my nose is much closer to your nose. It is much easier for my freedoms to impinge on your freedoms and quality of life.

                                        There are also plenty of townships that pass laws as a knee jerk response to a particular situation- hoarding, lots of barking dogs. They have no intention of enforcing those laws for everybody. They only put the laws on the books in case somebody becomes a problem. They practice selective enforcement. (Which I disagree with). Regretfully nowdays if the laws are not very very specific the homeowner will sue the township and cost the taxpayers lots of money. So the townships respond by making them very specific.

                                        It is hard to make everybody happy. In the example of your friend that can only have 4 cats/dogs but up to 80 horses what number would be fair for the number of cats/dogs she can have? Do you write a zoning ordinance that is written like many horse zoning- 2 acres for first and 1 acre for each additional but with square feet of property? But how does that work in a condo or apartment where you don't "own" property.

                                        Near my house was a roughly 40 acre cow farm. How many cats is too much for that property? Regretfully he did not believe in spaying/neutering. He had tons of them running around. When he sold the property for developement the developer wanted the cats gone before he took possesion. Farmer and his buds shot the majority of them. In his case 1 was too many. You can't legislate morality.

                                        Do I think that 4 is too low? For the majority of the situations I think it is. But if you need to zone/regulate to your smallest property in the township/developement then 4 might be too many if you are talking 4 mastiffs in a 1,200 square foot condo or 4 yappy JRT for that matter.

                                        I personally own 2 acres but back up to a 30 acre tree nursery. We own 2 dogs and 6 indoor/outdoor cats. No, DH and I have not slid into being the crazy cat people yet. So obviously I think a limit of 4 pets is too low for my situation.
                                        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          i have 5 dogs. Did i ever think i wanted 5 dogs? NO. We have small dogs, so under 52 lbs of dog in total. We got the first of this 5 from a great breeder. She is a healthy dog. We rescued the next 4. 3 are a rare hairless breed. All were in Rescue, the last was supposed to be a foster for a breeder who was across the country. We fell for him, and he stayed. The township allows 5 dogs. Thank goodness. There are so many dogs who need a home. We might be tempted to get more, ( they are all spayed and neutered) but i know i really can't handle more than the 5 we have. it is a good pack, but Still, a lot of work, 2 have allergies. i don't know the answer. All i know is, there are a ton of healthy, Well-bred dogs in rescue.

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