• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Neighborhood kids...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Neighborhood kids...

    We live in pretty typical suburbia, fenced yard, quite development, etc. Our dogs enjoy going out in the yard during the day, however we recently had an issue with two teenagers who let themselves into our yard through the back gate to play with the dogs. Both teenagers have pretty pronounced mental delays of some point, and are pretty loud/disruptive most of the time.

    Our dogs are friendly, but the littler one can be pretty protective of "her" space and doesn't really appreciate it when a stranger appears in her space. She won't bite, but she will growl, bark, and jump.

    We put a padlock on the gate, and I spoke to the teens (I'm guessing they are around 14-15?) and nicely asked them NOT to EVER do that again. They told me that the old owners let them in to play with their dogs whenever they wanted and they didn't realize that they'd moved. (Yea. I don't buy that. We've lived here almost 2 months now.)

    Fast forward to yesterday. The teens in question roam pretty freely in the afternoons when school is out, and the dogs were out. Littler dog started barking at them as they walked past the fence (about 10ft off the sidewalk) and the girl immediately ran over to the gate, tried to open it, and when she couldn't, settled for sticking her fingers through the boards. I called the dogs in right away, and went out to speak to them. The girl told me to 'eff off. I marched them both to her house (I don't know where the other one lives), asked to speak to her mother, who pretty much told me the same thing.

    Hubby suggested that if it happens again, I record them and any following conversations and present that to the HOA to see how they want us to deal with it. I really don't want to involve the police.

    Our neighbor is a LEO, and I was thinking about catching him the next time he's putting his trash out and ask him what would happen if I DID report the kids. I don't want to ruin the kids lives, since they don't seem to have any sort of impulse control... but I also don't want them constantly buggering at my dogs.

    Am I being too nice because the kids have handicaps? I was thinking about inviting them to play with the dogs while I am around to supervise, but I have so much going on right now, I really don't think I can handle adding anything else. I also don't want to encourage them, and be the reason they walk into somebody else's yard who might not have dogs as friendly as ours.

  • #2
    I ran into similar with kids in my old neighborhood and I just escorted them home to mom and dad and had a convo there.

    Now, the kids in my case were trying to get my dog going--barking at him, going up to the gate, etc...which was well off the walkway---set back 20 feet. I asked them to stop once. THey did it again and I walked all their butts home and talked ot their folks. No issues after that.

    I was in my nightgown and flipflops. I think that added to the crazy dog lady vibe I was giving off. worked.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...

    Comment


    • #3
      Can you post a No Trespassing sign?

      Comment


      • #4
        Wait, the PARENT blew you off as well as the kid? Guess we know where the behavior problems come from...

        Do not invite them over to play with the dogs. Clearly they have boundary issues, and making it okay sometimes but not other times is just going to confuse them.

        I'd probably put up no trespassing signs, and then look at double fencing the dogs away from the gates that the kids are using. A pain for you, less room for the dogs, but hopefully if the dogs aren't accessible the kids will find something else to do.
        --
        Wendy
        ... and Patrick

        Comment


        • #5
          Can you document this somehow? With the neighbor LEO, or HOA, or something...in the event of a dogbite or something else bad happening, you need to be able to prove that you tried to prevent the kids from messing around, but with no luck.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wsmoak View Post
            I'd probably put up no trespassing signs, and then look at double fencing the dogs away from the gates that the kids are using. A pain for you, less room for the dogs, but hopefully if the dogs aren't accessible the kids will find something else to do.
            I second this. It's a PITA and not fair, but you run the risk that as soon as one of your dogs even bumps a tooth into a hand being overenthusiastic, never mind actually taking a nip, Mommy dearest will be allll up in your stuff about your dangerous dogs and her poor traumatized baby.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would make a police report, to start a paper trail. Include the parent's reaction, check with the LEO neighbor to make sure the No Trespassing signs are the right number and location. I would then forward the police report to the HOA if there is a further incident, as well as make out another report. Under no circumstances would I allow either teen on my property, or near my dogs. The most neglectful parents are the first to sue, and the first to claim you injured their child. Never allow the kids in your house, and I mean for any reason. You need to establish boundaries, and I don't think the legal authorities will do anything to either teen.
              You can't fix stupid-Ron White

              Comment


              • #8
                The eff off response from mom and teen without impulse control would make me worry about retaliation if you turn them in.

                Perhaps a no trespassing sign and a (fake or not) video camera and a sign that states those on the property are on camera?

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  I didn't think about a No Trespassing sign. If I hang it on the gate there is no excuse for not seeing it, as the gate is the only space that is large enough to get fingers through. I walked the fence this afternoon to check and see if they could get in anywhere else, and to make sure that it would hold up to any climbing attempts by the kids(just in case).

                  I also like the idea of a double fence, even if it is just on the side with the gate. The other two sides of the yard are away from the street and they would have to walk through the neighbor's yard/fences to get to them. Does anybody have a suggestion for something that would be relatively easy/inexpensive to put up on that side? Our yard is big enough that the dogs won't even notice the lack of space.

                  I really don't want to make a huge deal over it, but I do agree that as soon as a finger comes in contact with a tooth (or even not) Mommy dearest will probably make the biggest fuss. I don't need to deal with a lawsuit on top of everything else.

                  I'm trying to figure out where the other teen lives, so that I might be able to talk to his parents about the situation, in hopes that they might be a little bit more amicable to the situation and trying to figure out a way to remedy it. I was surprised that these two are allowed to roam so freely, given the extent of their mental delays, but this area is pretty safe.

                  I have my interaction with both teen and her Mom written down. I will get video on my phone when/if it happens again. Perhaps my marching them home (in my barn clothes... which are right on par with PJs. There is nothing flattering about the dirt covered, sweaty, fat pregnant lady in her husband's poultice covered t-shirt, busted waist gym shorts, and rubber boots. ;-) ) scared the teens enough that they'll stay away from now on? Wishful thinking, more than likely.

                  JanM and wsmoak, you make a good point about inviting them in. I won't do it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Could you just stable a small holed chicken wire over the gate on the inside to prevent hands coming through? (I'm picturing a wooden gate)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Superminion View Post

                      They told me that the old owners let them in to play with their dogs whenever they wanted and they didn't realize that they'd moved. (Yea. I don't buy that. We've lived here almost 2 months now.)
                      They couldn't tell that they were DIFFERENT dogs there now?!


                      Am I being too nice because the kids have handicaps?
                      YES. It's not being kind to them if they end up getting hurt or fail to learn how to leave the dogs alone when asked repeatedly.

                      Originally posted by gaitedincali View Post
                      It's a PITA and not fair, but you run the risk that as soon as one of your dogs even bumps a tooth into a hand being overenthusiastic, never mind actually taking a nip, Mommy dearest will be allll up in your stuff about your dangerous dogs and her poor traumatized baby.
                      It does sound like the mom's reaction of "eff off" supports this possibility. As someone else mentioned, the kids do seem to have learned from their mom.

                      Originally posted by Superminion View Post

                      I also like the idea of a double fence, even if it is just on the side with the gate. The other two sides of the yard are away from the street and they would have to walk through the neighbor's yard/fences to get to them. Does anybody have a suggestion for something that would be relatively easy/inexpensive to put up on that side?
                      Hot wire. On the OUTside of the fencing. Should cure those two kids promptly of not listening when told to leave the dogs alone.


                      I'm trying to figure out where the other teen lives, so that I might be able to talk to his parents about the situation, in hopes that they might be a little bit more amicable to the situation and trying to figure out a way to remedy it. I was surprised that these two are allowed to roam so freely, given the extent of their mental delays, but this area is pretty safe.

                      ......

                      JanM and wsmoak, you make a good point about inviting them in. I won't do it.
                      Hope you find out and the other kid's parents have more sense. And I agree, you're smart not to invite them in.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        rather than ask your neighbor when he's off duty, call the station that covers your area and talk to the desk person. Just asking how it could be handled will let you know your options. If they have the same general guidelines we do, then it's up to the LEO how it's handled once they are dispatched. He may feel that the parent/kids need a lesson and will cite them, which I think is not unreasonable.

                        Document every time you see the kids there. Date, time and what happened. A client that adopted a dog through me, let her run and she often went to the next door neighbors and pooped on their property. They took the owner to court and won. She had to pay court costs, and the fine. She should have kept the dog leashed or otherwise confined. There is no reason this behavior has to be tolerated and perhaps the quickest/easiest way to impact the family is through their wallet.

                        If these people are also part of the HOA, I'd also contact them. However, if they are not, the HOA might not want to deal with it.

                        I think if this were me, I would approach the HOA, and I would begin to train my dogs that if anyone is on that side of the fence, they get cookies AWAY from the fence, or we go in and they get cookies inside. I'd make being near/on the fence less desirable than being with me. I've done that with the neighbor grandkids here. They love to run the fence and get the dogs wound up, so when I go out, I have a pocket full of cookies and as soon as the kids show up, I call the dogs, we do a few steps of heeling (with cookies), a down or a sit and release. Rinse lather, repeat. Two of them are beginning to make the connection that kids on the outside of the fence mean come to me. I still have to call, but the response is immediate and fast.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That is very scary. I would never want any child, especially a child that was developmentally delayed, to play with a dog unsupervised. You just never know for sure what either might do. I also agree that you don't know how the parents will react even in the event of a minor problem. I have been hurt playing with my own dogs when I leaned over while the dog was jumping up for a toy, and the dog's head smacked me in the face and left a bruise. Totally innocent dog accidents can happen.
                          I'd also be concerned about them letting my dogs out. You don't want to end up having to conduct an extensive search for your dogs because the neighbor kids let them out of the fence.
                          Supervised interactions might be fine with some kids, but I wouldn't be interested at all if the child had already told me to eff off.
                          If you can double fence the yard or add to the fence to prevent little fingers from being stuck through it? I am glad the locks are preventing them from opening the gate. That is huge to me - even fully functioning adults can forget and leave gates open. I was always raised to close any gate you open and *never* forget that, but a lot of people forget about gates.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A "No Trespassing" sign (or three) and the beginning of a paper trail filed with the HOA will be a great start.

                            I also had the hot wire thought, but that may come back to bite you.

                            What about an airlock sort of setup with your second fence? Make a bit of a chute coming off the sides of the gate with another gate that at the end of the chute that opens into your yard. That would give enough of a gap between fingers and the dogs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Only use hot wire if you want to end up on the front page as the psycho who electrocuted two developmentally disabled children. Seriously? Electric fencing does not work in the 'burbs. Would that it did; I'd have really enjoyed watching the neighbor's crazed dogs get zapped all those times they broke into my yard.

                              If you opt for the police route, do it officially. In other words, file a complaint about the children trespassing. Then you have a paper trail. Don't just ask the police for advice; this sounds sensible, but leads to a mess later if the cop you spoke with doesn't remember, or finds it expedient to not remember, the conversation.

                              Good luck with the kids. It sounds like their mom's a class act, so don't expect much from the kids and be pretty much resigned to having to do all the work to keep dogs physically out of reach. We live next to a street too, and basically just stopped letting the dog out during that time period when kids were getting out of school because there was always some 10-year-old boys being stupid at the fence. Kid, you're a human, stop barking!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I vote hot wire. Put it inside the fence/gate, so the only way to contact it is if they trespass. Light 'em up!
                                I have hotwire on my fence because I have a digger/fence jumper, and keeping folks out of the yard is a nice bonus. You don't need a 50 acre heart attack machine, but a smaller animal charger will give off a good zap and keep them out.
                                As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I like kids, but have had my own issues in the past with kids who wouldn't leave my dog alone so I feel for you Superminion.

                                  As satisfying as hotwire might be, I'm sure it would MamaFU's eyes would spark even brighter than the voltage running through her child as she started dialing the number of the first personal injury lawyer whose ad she saw on tv. But if you go the shock and awe route, really make them run the gauntlet to get to the gate. Make them put on a real display of intent. Water hazards are always fun.
                                  http://tinyurl.com/yl78btc

                                  Joking aside, I do hope you can find a solution. The risk to both the kids and the dogs is much to high and it would be horrible for everyone if anything went wrong.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Letting kids with that extent of disabilities wander after school seems very irresponsible. I wonder if Mommy Dearest is 'babysitting' or something. I wonder if the other teen's parents even know he's being left to wander?

                                    I think I would contact someone on the HOA board, and ask if they know anything about this family, and find out if there have been other complaints. The teens have already lied to you, and been aggressive, so I bet it's not a new problem, and some insight from others who have dealt with them before might be helpful, if only to find out the extent of the problem.
                                    You can't fix stupid-Ron White

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      If you have lovely neighbors, make sure they know the No Trespassing signs have nothing to do with them, but that they're put up because of specific trespassers. Just a suggestion so that the nice folks know you're not getting all stodgy with them, esp. if they live right next door and don't even know about the troublemakers.

                                      Also, esp. because of the "eff off's," be VERY wary of retaliation. I hear security cameras are not that expensive and many people are horrible. Something stuffed in meat and thrown over the fence is my nightmare.

                                      I had a similar problem, except my problem children were creepy old men neighbors - 2 different ones - who tormented my dogs. I ended up installing 6-foot high solid vinyl fencing, at considerable expense, to keep them from peering, prying, and antagonizing the dogs.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        You might want to check your HOA restrictions before putting up the No Trespassing signs. Many HOAs don't allow signs.

                                        My In-laws live in a neighborhood where the realtor For Sale signs have to go in the front windows of the house and are not allowed on the lawn. Their HOA's really strict about lawn ornaments, flags such as those seasonal flags. I think an American flag is okay but there are restrictions on flag poles. I really could not see in-laws' HOA allowing No Trespassing signs.

                                        Or you could put the signs up, take pictures and wait for the HOA to ask you to remove them. Then you have proof that you tried to post the property but HOA made you remove them.

                                        On the other hand these are minors with mental delays, would the claim be they can't read the signs or don't understand what "trespassing" means?
                                        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X