• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.


1 of 2 < >

Event Announcements now available FREE to all registered users

We just reconfigured the Event Announcements forum to be available as a free service for all registered forum users. See the thread stuck at the top of that forum for more information.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Might be taking the plunge! So - Corgi, French Bulldog, Scottish Terrier, or Papillon

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Might be taking the plunge! So - Corgi, French Bulldog, Scottish Terrier, or Papillon

    Oh, boy. After a VERY long time with no pets, it is possible there is a dog in our future. We really want a Scottish Deerhound (I bred and showed sighthounds for many years) but we are in our early 60's and feel that may be more size than we want to deal with.

    So can you folks give me the good, the bad, and the ugly about Corgis, French Bulldogs, Scottish Terriers, and Papillons?

    (As a friend said - "Well, there's the good - Welsh Corgis. And the bad - Scottish Terriers. And the ugly - French Bulldogs." But what does she know, she has a Jack Russell and a Pug! )

  • #2
    Wow - talk about opposite ends of the size spectrum!

    I'd steer clear of French bulldogs; so many of them are unhealthy. Everyone I know with a Papillon seems to love them. The Corgis I know are kind of a mixed bag. All the ones I know have a lot of drive and energy. Some are good with proper management. Others are a fight looking for a venue.

    If sighthounds are your thing, why not look into one of the smaller breeds, like an Italian Greyhound or Whippet?


    • #3
      I worked at a kennel for a summer and volunteer every weekend with a dog rescue, but haven't worked extensively with the breeds, just a few dogs here and there.

      I've met a bunch of Corgis and they've been hit or miss for me. Some are horribly yappy, others (particularly the outdoor/barn ones) are just happy little sausages running around. I remember one of my childhood friends had a Corgi that HATED my mom. We were good friends with the family, and the dog would just stand in front of her and bark at her incessantly, no matter how many times he'd seen her. And I think he's the only animal EVER that wasn't head over heels for my mother

      Haven't met many French Bulldogs, but you can expect bulldogs in general to be pretty laidback. Be forewarned they come with some health issues. The one that comes first to my mind is that because of their soft palate and squished face, they often have breathing issues particularly in heat. So if you live in a warm area and the dog will be spending a lot of time outside, this might not be a good choice.

      The only Scottish Terrier I know had some 'tude. Not "I hate you" but just some terrier 'tude, the "I"ll listen to you if I feel like it." But I've only known one, so this could vary.

      The Papillons I've met are SMART. People see lap dog and think they're all poof and nothing between the ears, but this is a friendly, trainable breed. A thing to think about-long silky coat could get gross at a barn!
      "Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out." ~John Wooden

      Phoenix Animal Rescue


      • #4
        All great breeds, and all so very different!

        Here are some common stereotypes:

        Corgi's shed a lot...a lot. Personality types vary significantly, from sweetest dogs in the world to nasty little f'ers Tend to be on the healthier side of purebred dogs, but are prone to getting overweight.

        French Bulldogs are often very friendly, but also come with a signifiant amount of health problems. Generally any brachycephalic breed will be prone to requiring its nares, saccules and soft palate done.

        Scotties are very sweet in general, but are more independent type. I consider them a quiet terrier. Require grooming, but shedding isnt insane. Prone to TCC's in the bladder.

        Papillons are totally a trainable breed, they are the energetic type of little dog. Dont treat them like a little dog, they do require training - but are highly trainable. Again...generally a healthier type.

        There's also a "mutt", they can be wonderful Or if you want a purebred dog, consider a whippet? They are generally wonderful dogs!!


        • #5
          The Corgi if you want to herd things or friends. The Scottie if you want an intelligent, loud, terrier-type companion. The French Bulldog if you're couch hounds. The Papillon -- well, I don't know anything about Papillons.

          If Deerhounds are as much couch potatoes as Greyhounds are, you might consider one.

          Me, I'd go to the nearest rescue/shelter/humane society and adopt the dog least likely to get adopted by non-dog-people. Forget the breed--rescue someone who really needs you.
          Founder of the People Who Prefer COTH Over FB Clique
          People Who Hate to Rush to Kill Wildlife Clique!
          "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique


          • #6
            Corgis are very vocal--not necessarily barking, but Corgi-speak. And they do shed. And shed. And SHED. Definitely NOT a "little" dog--more like a big dog with short legs. They can be very energetic but in general aren't big on endurance.

            Scotties can be very assertive and they aren't generally huge cuddlers. Very much terriers and they have opinions! I am considering a Scottie when I'm down to one dog, but my concern would be the remaining dog is likely the opinionated, stubborn Corgi and might not get along with an opinionated, stubborn Scottie!

            Not a fan of French Bulldogs but I don't like brachycephalic breeds in general so I'm biased. And I don't have a lot of first-hand experience with Papillons.
            Author Page
            Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
            Steampunk Sweethearts


            • #7
              Those breeds could not be more different from each other. You're talking about herding (corgi), terriers, and two "ornamentals." Instead of focusing on breeds you like the appearence of, what sort of temperment are you looking for? Do you want a cuddly lap dog? High energy and very focussed, like for agility? One that will retrieve a ball all day long and swim after sticks? Does barking bother you?

              If you give us a little more information on the traits you're looking for, we might have better suggestions.
              I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry


              • #8
                Dog breeds are so individual. I think French Bulldogs are very cute, but I do like dogs that can go for a long walk and it seems like the breathing issues make them a little less able to do things like that. I know a lot of people with Papillons and they are very trainable. They are probably a little too small and not "stocky" enough for my taste. I'd probably go with a Corgi or Scottie. I have heard about some bladder issues with Scotties and I don't know how well a good breeder is able to avoid that issue, so it would be something I would want to research. Other than that, I think I'd like a Scottie, but I have heard that they aren't necessarily fond of rough little kids and as a terrier they might not be totally accepting of all dogs. It wouldn't bother me, but it would be a deal-breaker for some.


                • #9
                  The ranch I worked at had Deerhounds, and I just cannot imagine them doing well in a home environment. The ones I've known are definitely NOT couch potatoes. Especially the younger ones had so much energy and would constantly run off for MILES and we'd think they were lost then they'd turn up hours and hours later. They were also impossible to train. I guess an older adult would be more manageable in a home.

                  From the research I did about them when I was considering one, I think an Italian Greyhound might suit your situation well - like a smaller version of a greyhound, who are known for doing well in homes and basically being couch potatoes.

                  The only French Bulldog I know is ADORABLE and a total lovebug, but I'd also be concerned about health issues with them.
                  "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
                  "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Guin View Post
                    If you give us a little more information on the traits you're looking for, we might have better suggestions.
                    Yes, I agree with this. In addition, what is your lifestyle and how much rearranging/rethinking of that lifestyle are you willing to do to make room for a dog of a certain type?

                    A Papillon might spend an hour barking at the neighbor's cat walking across your patio. The Scotty will try to eat the neighbor's cat when it walks across your patio. The Corgi will chase the neighbor's cat across the patio and over the fence, where it will run back and forth for an hour before giving up. And the French Bulldog will chase the neighbor's cat off the patio, but will run out of breath before it makes it to the fence.

                    Do you jog or power walk? Do you take regular walks in the early morning? Do you care how much a dog sheds, or whether or not you'll need a professional groomer on a regular basis? Do you like dog training? How much busy-ness and/or noise can you handle?

                    Whatever breed you decide on, go with the best breeder you can find.


                    • #11
                      Rather than just looking at breed pictures, how about looking around at what is available close by, without hurry, breeders, shelters, put the word out at pet clinics and with friends and see, from what comes up, what would suit you best?

                      -Corgis are not that easy a dog to care for and their shedding is immense.

                      -French bulldogs are wonderful cuddlers, but that is about all, they can't do much other without having trouble breathing.

                      -Scotties are all terrier, busy being busy and you will spend all the time chasing after your dog, that will be ignoring you.

                      -Papillons are wonderful dogs, our dog club has several of them that have titles in obedience and agility up to the highest levels, are easy to care for, portable when you get too old for bigger dogs, but you have to like little shrimpy dogs and take special care of them.
                      They are not fragile, but easy to get in trouble because of the very small size.

                      I think for an older person, I would go with the Papillon as a dog that would fit best over the years.
                      Of course you can make any dog you want work, just have to eventually delegate some of what you may not be able to do so easily, exercise, groom, take to the vet and such.


                      • #12
                        I'm partial to the corgi since I have the most awesome one ever! Mine is happy to laze around all day on the couch. She will run around and can keep up at the horse shows though. She also LOVES to swim! An awesome car traveler! She only barks when chasing things (squirrels, other dogs at the dog park, etc) or when someone is at the door. Compared to my lab she barely sheds. I do monitor her weight as corgis are prone to be overweight. She's friendly and happily greets new people.
                        I totally want another one, but I know the next one won't be as perfect as her lol.
                        Custom Painted Brushes: spcustombrushes@gmail.com


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DownYonder View Post
                          Oh, boy. After a VERY long time with no pets, it is possible there is a dog in our future. We really want a Scottish Deerhound (I bred and showed sighthounds for many years) but we are in our early 60's and feel that may be more size than we want to deal with.
                          I hear you! I am looking at going smaller myself.

                          So can you folks give me the good, the bad, and the ugly about Corgis
                          There are two complaints I hear frequently about Corgis (assuming you mean Pems). The barking and the shedding. Both can be minimized. My Corgis are not non-stop barkers, they all quit when I tell them, but they are also well trained and I think that matters....a lot with the barking.

                          The shedding can be managed by regular bathing and blow out with a high velocity dryer or regular visits to a good groomer. If I only had one Corgi, s/he would be bathed at least once per week. Truly. That often will keep the loose hair down. My Corgis don't hate the bath, they run upstairs to the tub, stand on the edge and I help them in. They stay in the tub till invited out.

                          Corgis, as one other poster said, are short but not small. Even my lean male goes at 40-ish pounds.

                          French Bulldogs
                          I know OF several Frenchies. I personally find the flatulence and snoring grating so I'd never own one, but the ones I know that are handled well are active, intelligent little dogs. If you live in an area that gets excessively hot during the summer a Frenchie will need protected from that.

                          Scottish Terriers
                          My neighbor has one, but I think he might not be a good example as she's not a very good trainer. He's a nice dog, tho not as interactive as I'd want. A little stand-offish.

                          As I have been thinking about what breed I might go to, it is a toss up between a Mini or Toy Poodle and a Pap. I am drawn more to the Paps due to body structure and self assurance as well as coat care. Getting one, well that is another story altogether. Finding a poodle would be far easier and far less expensive I think.

                          and there is my $.02 worth!


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Guin View Post
                            Those breeds could not be more different from each other. You're talking about herding (corgi), terriers, and two "ornamentals." Instead of focusing on breeds you like the appearence of, what sort of temperment are you looking for? Do you want a cuddly lap dog? High energy and very focussed, like for agility? One that will retrieve a ball all day long and swim after sticks? Does barking bother you?

                            If you give us a little more information on the traits you're looking for, we might have better suggestions.

                            These are breeds that are wildly different in personality, and ALL of them far more owner intense then a sighthound!

                            If you loved your sighthounds, you are going to find a French bulldog irritating and a Corgi (either Cardigan or Pembroke) or Papillion way too needy. A terrier will have the independence you're used to, but will not train the same.

                            Since yu really loved your sighthounds - why not one of the smaller breeds? Italian Greyhounds, Whippets, Basenjis...

                            Tell us what drew you to the breeds you listed, and we might be better able to help you.


                            • #15
                              As people have mentioned, these are exceptionally different breeds. I think that stepping back and thinking about your end goal might be helpful.

                              What did you love about the sighthounds?
                              What are your preferred exercise demands?
                              Innate instinct?

                              If I had to blindly recommend any of your choices I would say Papillon because their intelligent nature and relatively low drive and grooming needs are a good match for many people.


                              • #16
                                If you are a sighthound person, have you considered a Silken Windsprite? Sort of lurcher-like, whippet sized.


                                • #17
                                  A friend who had a bunch of Papillons sold me on them. They showed the younger ones in dog shows, and when they finished Champion, or proved they didn't want to show, they showed them in obedience, and one or two in agility. Once they reached their championships they were spay/neutered, unless they wanted one puppy (a usual litter is one or two for Paps). Some were incessant barkers, and most were fairly quiet. Most had bad teeth (fairly common in tiny breeds), but their dogs were pretty healthy. One caution is that my friends were very active in breed rescue, and a lot of those dogs did have health or barking, or other behavioral issues, but we always suspected that many were not quality breeder products, or were puppy mill animals.
                                  You can't fix stupid-Ron White


                                  • #18
                                    From your list I'd choose a Papillon - my breeder has two and they are somewhat different in temperament (so breeding will be a factor) but both are athletic, sweet and healthy. One is more laid back than the other, so they could range from "lap dog" to "agility dog" depending on their breeding and your desire. (I'd tend to think most would lean toward "agility dog" v. lap dog - they are an active breed and I would disagree with the poster above that called them "ornamental".)

                                    My farrier has a Frenchie and he is a health mess. Wonderful dog, great temperament, but has been through the wringer by age 9. Some of his issues are exacerbated by the brachycephalic head - e.g. he has teeth issues now as an older dog but cannot safely go under anesthesia.

                                    I've never been a fan of Corgis. Maybe I just haven't known any that are nice or cute. All I see with them is hair and shedding; which is tolerable if you love the breed, of course.

                                    Definitely need to know more about you, your lifestyle and your interests with your dog to be able to choose.


                                    • #19
                                      Adopt a mutt!! You could probably find one that's a mix of at least two of the breeds you're thinking of.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        Thanks for the comments! And yes, I know they are all quite diverse in type and temperament, but we are willing to think "outside the box". But most of you have confirmed many of my concerns about some of those breeds.

                                        So, after sleeping on it, the Frenchie is definitely out - don't want to deal with those health problems, and Mr DY thinks they are too "froo-froo" anyway. I am sure he feels the same way about the Papillons, but we haven't discussed them in depth.

                                        Welsh Corgis are out due to the shedding issue, and I think they would be too intense in drive and energy anyway. Also, while I think Corgi puppies are adorable, I haven't known many adult Corgis that I have really liked - they seem to have a tendency towards being stubborn and opinionated, and many of them are too yappy.

                                        Still considering a Scottish Terrier - have known quite a few, and really like their rather dignified demeanor. And yes, I understand they can be stubborn and opinionated (like a Corgi), but at least they don't shed like Corgis!

                                        We both love the sighthound temperament, and would love to have a Whippet, but they are too speedy and require way more exercise than we could give it (even with a large fenced in yard and daily walks, they can be way more zoomy than we want).

                                        Italian Greyhounds are too fragile - every single one that my friends had or that we showed ended up with a broken leg at some point from simply jumping off the couch, or the bed, or the porch, etc.

                                        I like unusual breeds (had some of the first Salukis in the SE, way back when), so am now looking at the PBVG, the Xoloitzcuintli, and the Chinese Crested. Doubt Mr DY will go for the CC, though - talk about a "froo-froo" dog!

                                        Will have to look into the Silken Windsprite someone mentioned, although I think they will probably be taller than we want. And we don't want something that can jump a 4 foot fence - it's bad enough worrying about diggers, but at least there are ways to discourage a digger.