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House breaking the unbearable dog!!!

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  • #81
    Suckerforhorses I am not sure why this issue hits so close to home but it is more than a bit bizarre.
    Because its entirely possible to work a full day and raise a puppy, which I've done myself. Its frustrating to have people telling the OP that its just unacceptable to leave the pup in the house for 8 hours while she works. Not everyone can get home to let the puppy out, but that doesn't mean its abusive or that the puppy would be better off being rehomed.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

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    • #82
      As far as the crating goes, 8 hours for a puppy in a crate is a long time without breaks. Plus, if she really can't hold it yet for 8 hours, she may end up learning to pee in the crate, which is the worst and VERY hard to break.

      I'd say (if dog walkers or coming home at a break is not an option), baby gate a safe area, like a big bathroom or tiled area, and put down pee pads (you'll have to use a lot during the training and even in the long run depending on how big she is). Eventually they can learn the transition back to outside, but it does make it harder. Still, I like that better than crating for 8 hours. One technique is to line the whole confined area with pee pads (except for where her bed is), and then day by day pick some up until there are only enough to support a dog of her size (try to keep them in the spot she seems to prefer to pee).

      If the OP's work situation is like many people's, I'd guess it is some days more than 8 hours from walking out the door to walking back in, and that IS too long to be in a crate without breaks for a puppy that isn't solidly housebroken, in my opinion. I actually think it's too long for any dog, but I'm not big on extensive crating.

      I think crating is a valuable training tool and extremely helpful to keep destructive dogs safe, but more than 8 hours regularly is a lot (and if you're going to be gone for a few hours, it is best to leave water). If you need to be gone longer than that consistently, it's best if someone can come let the dog out for breaks or you can set up a larger baby-gated area that is dog proofed.

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      • #83
        In my area no shelter will allow you to adopt a cat, let alone a dog without someone present in the house during the day.

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        • #84
          I have said it before but will say it again. A truly housebroken dog will withhold water themselves while you are gone. You will notice as soon as you get home and take them outside to go to the bathroom they will almost immediately head to their water dish for a long drink. That said, eight hours is way too long for a puppy to be in a crate in my opinion. If he pees in there you may never get him housebroken.
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          • #85
            Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
            I have said it before but will say it again. A truly housebroken dog will withhold water themselves while you are gone. You will notice as soon as you get home and take them outside to go to the bathroom they will almost immediately head to their water dish for a long drink. That said, eight hours is way too long for a puppy to be in a crate in my opinion. If he pees in there you may never get him housebroken.
            I've definitely noticed this with my girl. It used to worry me because she'd take a long drink right after the last potty break before bedtime, so I'd worry she wouldn't make it through the night, but she always does.
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            • #86
              Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
              I have said it before but will say it again. A truly housebroken dog will withhold water themselves while you are gone. You will notice as soon as you get home and take them outside to go to the bathroom they will almost immediately head to their water dish for a long drink. That said, eight hours is way too long for a puppy to be in a crate in my opinion. If he pees in there you may never get him housebroken.
              Yes, mine go right for the bowl (after greeting me) when I come home and have a nice long guzzle.
              We adopted adult dogs already housebroken. My husband does have a job that often has him home midday (he coaches tennis) and he takes them out when he gets home and then again before leaving for afternoon/evening lessons.

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              • Original Poster

                #87
                So to clarify my crate thing... I said crate because it was easier to explain, but what I am using as a crate (as I don't have 150$ to drop on a crate at this moment is my bathroom. It's a half bath so it's small, but gives her room to move and sleep and whatnot. I didn't put a pee pad down yesterday and she did great so I tried again today. She peed in the corner but immediately went outside and to poop. Very proud of her! This smaller area thing seems to be working. Before I left for work today, she wouldn't pee. Inside or out, so I assume that is why we had an accident. We walked for a straight hour and got nothing and tried again for another 30 mins before I left for work. I can't make her go and I did have to leave for work. She didn't have as much play time today as we had to run errands ( she goes with) so it could have been a cause to her not relaxing enough to eliminate.

                As far as me working late, I am lucky to have a job where that will never happen! We have to be clocked out at a certain time. No excuses. Best job ever.

                And maybe I abuse my puppy, but she cuddles with me every night and and plays with me and my other dogs every chance she has. In fact, she is giving me kisses as I type. I could think of a lot worse situations for her to be in, that's for sure!

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by Chall View Post
                  In my area no shelter will allow you to adopt a cat, let alone a dog without someone present in the house during the day.
                  Now this is crazy. Most people who can afford to properly take care of a dog (think VET BILLS) are gone during the day, WORKING ... guess they must not adopt out many animals ?

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                    I have said it before but will say it again. A truly housebroken dog will withhold water themselves while you are gone. You will notice as soon as you get home and take them outside to go to the bathroom they will almost immediately head to their water dish for a long drink.
                    This is what my boys do - I take them out when I get home, and when they come back in they both have a long drink.

                    I work at home most of the time, but I do have to go into the office 1 day a week, and I'll be gone for 10 hours. When my young dog was much younger, I had a friend stop by and walk them - he was kept in the small bathroom in case he couldn't wait that couple of hours. But once he got a little over a year, we stopped doing this. All of my dogs over the years have been fine waiting all to go out while I'm at work, unless they have an upset tummy.

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
                      So to clarify my crate thing... I said crate because it was easier to explain, but what I am using as a crate (as I don't have 150$ to drop on a crate at this moment is my bathroom. It's a half bath so it's small, but gives her room to move and sleep and whatnot. I didn't put a pee pad down yesterday and she did great so I tried again today. She peed in the corner but immediately went outside and to poop. Very proud of her! This smaller area thing seems to be working. Before I left for work today, she wouldn't pee. Inside or out, so I assume that is why we had an accident. We walked for a straight hour and got nothing and tried again for another 30 mins before I left for work. I can't make her go and I did have to leave for work. She didn't have as much play time today as we had to run errands ( she goes with) so it could have been a cause to her not relaxing enough to eliminate.

                      As far as me working late, I am lucky to have a job where that will never happen! We have to be clocked out at a certain time. No excuses. Best job ever.

                      And maybe I abuse my puppy, but she cuddles with me every night and and plays with me and my other dogs every chance she has. In fact, she is giving me kisses as I type. I could think of a lot worse situations for her to be in, that's for sure!
                      Definitely better than a crate so she can relieve herself somewhere if necessary. I might not take away the pee-pads. Obviously you don't want to keep them forever, but if you can at least train her that any spot on the floor is not a bathroom - only certain indoor areas are ok - that might be better. Hard to say; I've never used a pee pad for training but at some point you have to train for outside...but in the interim it might confine the indoor relieving only to appropriate areas.

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                      • #91
                        Originally posted by Roxyllsk View Post
                        Now this is crazy. Most people who can afford to properly take care of a dog (think VET BILLS) are gone during the day, WORKING ... guess they must not adopt out many animals ?
                        Yeah, that's pretty crazy. I can see young puppies, but cats? Are they a kill shelter? A member of the better dead than not having someone home 24/7?

                        Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will ), but isn't the rule of thumb that puppies can go without potty breaks for the same length of time as their age in months (with an upper limit, of course). So, a 2 month old puppy can go for 2 hours, a 4 month for 4 hours and so on.

                        I'd keep the potty pads. When she's old enough to hold it, then move the potty pads outside. It might be best to do this during a vacation week so you can take her out frequently.

                        You might be able to litter train her too...not sure how big she is.

                        However, I've never been a fan of shutting a dog in a dark bathroom. Can't someone loan you a crate?

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                        • Original Poster

                          #92
                          The light is on... It isn't dark

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                          • #93
                            Start saying "go potty" or whatever phrase you prefer and say it EVERY time while she's going, pee or poop. She will catch on quickly, and then you can use it to have her go on command. Even if mine doesn't really need to go, if I ask she'll usually pee a little bit for me.

                            Be sure to throw a ticker-tape parade every time she goes potty outside too- high pitched excited voice, lots of praise, treats- make it a party. Don't punish her for going inside. If you can catch her in the act, hustle her outside to see if she will finish and then huge praise.

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                            • #94
                              Originally posted by Event4Life View Post
                              Interesting. So I'm genuinely curious, because growing up we always had a dog door and huge backyard which meant Sawyer could come and go as he pleased while we were at work/school. Do most people who have adult, house trained dogs without a dog door and work full time not let them out in the middle of the day? I'm planning ahead for when I'm teaching full time, and I always assumed I'd have to either find a place with a fenced in backyard, or hire a dog walker.
                              None of my dogs have someone come in the middle of the day. We work for 8-9 hours and they are fine. The first I got as a tiny puppy when I was in college so was able to housebreak him and by the time I had a gruelding work schedule he was fine, the second we got as a housebroken 9 month old rescue because we do work and didn't think we could get through the puppy training stage with our schedules. Interestingly, both dogs seemed to self limit how much they drank, drinking in the morning while we were home then hardly drinking again until we got home and they had been out.

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                              • #95
                                Originally posted by Chall View Post
                                In my area no shelter will allow you to adopt a cat, let alone a dog without someone present in the house during the day.
                                Which I assume is a very urban area (perhaps in the Northeast). I actually don't know any public shelters around here -- rural or urban -- that have a rule like that because they couldn't afford to, but there are private adoption groups with myriad rules (often contradictory) and for that reason many animals that could have great homes go without. Or potential adopters like myself go other routes and provide what many would agree are good homes.

                                It is why I generally get dogs from breeders -- breeders of working farm dogs -- who while are responsible and concerned with, and screen, the people that buy their pups they don't have unrealistic guidelines.

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                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by Cammie View Post
                                  Start saying "go potty" or whatever phrase you prefer and say it EVERY time while she's going, pee or poop. She will catch on quickly, and then you can use it to have her go on command. Even if mine doesn't really need to go, if I ask she'll usually pee a little bit for me.

                                  Be sure to throw a ticker-tape parade every time she goes potty outside too- high pitched excited voice, lots of praise, treats- make it a party. Don't punish her for going inside. If you can catch her in the act, hustle her outside to see if she will finish and then huge praise.
                                  "Go potty" is one of the best commands we ever taught our dogs.

                                  Agreed that punishment for going in the house is not good. It's hard to catch them while they still remember what you're mad about and then it usually just teaches them not to go in front of you (which makes teaching them "go potty" very tricky).

                                  You don't need to be walking her to teach her go potty. Pick the place you'd like her to go and stand there without distraction, saying "go potty". She'll get it. Like others said, she's been trained that the bathroom (or kitchen?) is where she's supposed to go. You need to steer her in a new direction.

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                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by BLBGP View Post
                                    Pick the place you'd like her to go and stand there without distraction, saying "go potty". She'll get it. Like others said, she's been trained that the bathroom (or kitchen?) is where she's supposed to go. You need to steer her in a new direction.
                                    I did exactly this with my guys except I stood there silently until they eventually went, and then I threw a ticker tape parade and said "go potty" a thousand times during the pottying.

                                    If you are just standing there in the spot saying [some words] over and over again, [some words] may as well sound to the dog like "be here in this spot by me," or "keep on sniffing the grass here, that's awesome when you do that" or "wag your tail when you are on this spot please." Wait until they are actually doing the action you want and then associate the cue with it.
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                                    • #98
                                      Given your restrictions I would try late stage litter box training. Get an Xpen and a large tub. Use snaps (linked) to create a small "box" around the tub. Fill the tub with (my choice) wood stove pellets or shavings (messier). Use the rest of the xpen as a play/sleeping area. To encourage her to use the tub, line the tub with a used pee pad, then put your litter on top of it.

                                      You need to clearly define the litter box area at first until she gets the hang of it. The typical xpen is 16' in linear length and if you use 3 of the 24" panels to surround the tub (see Tractor Supply for a concrete mixing tub) she'll have just enough area to sleep and chew those stuffed Kong toys.

                                      You can google litter box training dogs for more how to's.
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