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House breaking the unbearable dog!!!

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  • #41
    Is doggy daycare an option or a dog walker??
    LILY-13yr APHA/PtHA mare**LUKE-11yr Rescue Haflinger gelding (being leased out)**ANNIE-7yr AQHA mare

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    • Original Poster

      #42
      What is frustrating for me (aside from everyone attacking me) is the puppy can obviously hold it. She does it all day at the barn. Someone at all times has an eye on her and no one has seen her go. Some days that's 12 hours! Today she has been outside for an hour. Watched my other two dogs potty and now she it out alone. I have her on a chain and she is just chilling. She has the concrete and the grass to sniff on and won't use either. I bought a spray that's supposed to make them us the bathroom where you spray it. Anyone have luck with that?

      As far as restricting water goes, she has unlimited access with her meals. Which are 3 times a day. When she is thirst she carries the bowl around. She gets water when she needs it. I don't just leave it out though.

      Today when I leave for work, I will put her in a small area (my half bath down stairs) should I put the pee pad down for accidents or not?

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
        What is frustrating for me (aside from everyone attacking me) is the puppy can obviously hold it. She does it all day at the barn. Someone at all times has an eye on her and no one has seen her go. Some days that's 12 hours!
        Eyes are on the dog EVERY SINGLE minute she's at the barn? I think that's highly unlikely. She is going potty at the barn. No one is catching her do it.

        Today she has been outside for an hour. Watched my other two dogs potty and now she it out alone. I have her on a chain and she is just chilling. She has the concrete and the grass to sniff on and won't use either.
        Because you have taught the dog that the place to potty is in the kitchen, or you've just not seen her pee. Again, you're watching her every single second?

        As far as restricting water goes, she has unlimited access with her meals. Which are 3 times a day. When she is thirst she carries the bowl around. She gets water when she needs it. I don't just leave it out though.
        Dogs should ALWAYS have water available. You need to be leaving water out. Not having water available is borderline abusive.

        Ready to Riot, you really seem to be missing the point here. You're doing NOTHING to train the dog. If you want her housebroken, you need to take her outside, STAY WITH HER and PRAISE THE HELL OUT OF HER when she pees or poops outside. Have a party. Shove high value treats. Make her think it's the best thing on earth to go potty outside. With this dog, I'd be taking her out every 30 minutes (60, max) to give her as many opportunities to go potty for you as possible.

        Leaving her outside tethered and hoping she'll go will accomplish very little.

        It would also be prudent to get the dog to the vet and check for a bladder infection. Water restriction in particular can set up an infection. If she's got a bladder infection, then it's going to be impossible to make any gains at all.

        The more you post about this dog, the more I think it would be better for the both of you to find her a different home.

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        • #44
          not only is it a really bad idea to restrict water access, it's illegal- that's one thing that will get AC out on you in a hurry. The animal must have access to drinking water at all times.

          agree with the others that there is no way this puppy will ever get housebroken this way. And a crate won't help- it's extremely cruel to crate a dog for 8 hours straight with no breaks. But besides that, the pup will be forced to potty where he sleeps. Once you "break" the dog's natural desire to be clean by forcing the dog to potty where he sleeps, you're in real trouble. Many pet store and puppy mill pups were raised in their own wastes, and they are incredibly difficult to housebreak- because they just don't care anymore.

          Do most people who have adult, house trained dogs without a dog door and work full time not let them out in the middle of the day?
          yes, most people do. If you exercise your dog before work, they usually just sleep all day until you get home, in which case it's fairly easy for them to hold it for 8 hours or so. It would be better to have a dog door or a dog walker, of course, but many people can't afford a dog walker and don't have a safe place for the dog door to lead out to.

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          • #45
            You are in La La Land if you think she is holding it at the barn. She probably pees every 30 minutes or so which means you aren't watching her very closely. How exactly do you expect her to become housebroken? Did you give her a manual to read?
            McDowell Racing Stables

            Home Away From Home

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
              What is frustrating for me (aside from everyone attacking me) is the puppy can obviously hold it. She does it all day at the barn. Someone at all times has an eye on her and no one has seen her go. Some days that's 12 hours! Today she has been outside for an hour. Watched my other two dogs potty and now she it out alone. I have her on a chain and she is just chilling. She has the concrete and the grass to sniff on and won't use either. I bought a spray that's supposed to make them us the bathroom where you spray it. Anyone have luck with that?

              As far as restricting water goes, she has unlimited access with her meals. Which are 3 times a day. When she is thirst she carries the bowl around. She gets water when she needs it. I don't just leave it out though.

              Today when I leave for work, I will put her in a small area (my half bath down stairs) should I put the pee pad down for accidents or not?
              When is the 3rd feeding if you are at work for 8 hours each day?? just curious
              LILY-13yr APHA/PtHA mare**LUKE-11yr Rescue Haflinger gelding (being leased out)**ANNIE-7yr AQHA mare

              Comment


              • #47
                Thanks, guys, for the answers. Those all make me feel a lot better about when I start teaching full time. My girl has "settled in" to her new life so well - I've had her for 2 months now. She's not without problems (has some very mild fear related issues), which have definitely improved. She is housebroken perfectly though, so I don't know why I'm so nervous about leaving her alone for extended periods of time! I guess I've been brought up with a pretty idealistic dog keeping lifestyle (out in the country + dog door), so this is a learning curve for me (city + apartment). Posts like these make me really glad I stuck to my guns and got an adult dog!

                OP, I think you may need to discuss how to housebreak a puppy with an animal behaviorist or trainer.
                "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
                "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey

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                • Original Poster

                  #48
                  She is fed at 2 10 and 4. And yes while I'm outside with her I watch her. She never leaves my side. When I tie her outside I sit on the porch and have coffee. And about the water, the dog whisper book i am readinghas told me not to give her unlimited access... Guess he abuses his puppies as well?

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Ready to Riot, I'm pretty sure you're just not willing to change anything you're doing because every single suggestion on this thread has been met with excuses and defensiveness.

                    You came here presumably because you wanted some help with your totally unhousebroken dog. What did you expect to hear? Some magic spell or word to whisper to her that would suddenly get the message of "dogs pee and poop outside" through? All of the problems you're having are of your own doing, and unless YOU change your management style, NOTHING will change in your dog.

                    I feel terribly sorry for your poor dog, and I hope you finally get tired of the hassle and give her away. Seems like that's probably best case scenario at this point. How sad

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
                      She is fed at 2 10 and 4. And yes while I'm outside with her I watch her. She never leaves my side. When I tie her outside I sit on the porch and have coffee. And about the water, the dog whisper book i am readinghas told me not to give her unlimited access... Guess he abuses his puppies as well?
                      2 am or pm? Whats your routine with her when you work??
                      LILY-13yr APHA/PtHA mare**LUKE-11yr Rescue Haflinger gelding (being leased out)**ANNIE-7yr AQHA mare

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        What is frustrating for me (aside from everyone attacking me) is the puppy can obviously hold it. She does it all day at the barn. Someone at all times has an eye on her and no one has seen her go.
                        well, you do realize that being able to "hold it" isn't actually part of housebreaking? that just comes with maturity. Your job is communicating to the puppy where the puppy is supposed to go. In order to do this, you have to take the puppy to the desired spot, and when the puppy goes, you praise and reward the puppy. Over and over again. If you've never seen her go anywhere, it's pretty clear you haven't been doing this. Instead, you've sort of taught her that the place to go is in the kitchen.

                        Housebreaking 101: the puppy is taken ON A LEASH to the potty spot multiple times a day, and if the puppy goes there, you throw a party and praise and play and exercise the dog. In between potty trips, the puppy is supervised very closely- this means 100% attention on the dog, it doesn't mean trying to "keep an eye" on her while you do other things. If you can't focus 100% on the dog, the dog is either tethered to you or confined in a puppy-proofed area. When I first bring a puppy home, I set a timer and take the puppy out every single hour during waking times and every 4 hours over night. As the puppy gets older/better trained, you gradually extend the length of time between potty trips. MANY people actually take vacations from work for two weeks or so when they first bring home a puppy, and then after they start back to work they either come home at noon or hire a dogwalker to do the noon visit until the puppy is 6 months old at least.
                        If you're very diligent you can rapidly housebreak a puppy in a week- and then you just have to take the pup out often enough so he isn't forced to have accidents while you wait for his body to mature enough so he can hold it for longer periods of time.

                        and stop restricting her water. Just because you read it in some book doesn't mean it's a good idea. It's unhealthy and abusive. Not to mention it doesn't seem to be working very well for you, now does it?

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Event4Life View Post
                          Interesting. So I'm genuinely curious, because growing up we always had a dog door and huge backyard which meant Sawyer could come and go as he pleased while we were at work/school. Do most people who have adult, house trained dogs without a dog door and work full time not let them out in the middle of the day? I'm planning ahead for when I'm teaching full time, and I always assumed I'd have to either find a place with a fenced in backyard, or hire a dog walker.
                          We have two dogs: a golden retreiver and a cattle dog. They do not get crated and have free run of the house. No doggie door. Nobody goes home to let them out. If my boyfriend leaves for work the same time I do, they are in from 6:00 AM when we leave, until at least 4:30 PM when he gets home from work. They are always sleeping on the couch when he gets home, and unless one of them had an upset stomach, there are no accidents.
                          "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
                            She is fed at 2 10 and 4. And yes while I'm outside with her I watch her. She never leaves my side. When I tie her outside I sit on the porch and have coffee. And about the water, the dog whisper book i am readinghas told me not to give her unlimited access... Guess he abuses his puppies as well?
                            I would not be so flippant about this issue. Have you ran this by your vet? I do not even restrict water at night. Honestly, I think this watering 3 times a day is a terrible idea. My vet has told me that dogs should have clean water just about all if the time unless you are walking them or training them. When driving I offer water more than 3 x a day.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Well, I think there is a big difference between "unlimited" water, and "restricted" water; maybe we just need to clarify. I am not against puppies not having "unlimited water" after, say, 7pm. At that time of night, drinking is supervised so that they don't just slurp down a whole bowl of water without my knowing it. Generally speaking, though, I provide water throughout the day for puppies but don't necessarily make it "unlimited" (unsupervised) all day. So it's very likely that the OP isn't restricting water in a neglectful way, just in a watchful way.

                              As far as the dog being outside all day, and then peeing in the house - it could very well be true, and that the dog is actually uncomfortable and "holding" their bladder while outside because they have been trained to go in the kitchen.

                              So it sounds like it would be worth exploring the idea of retraining when/where potty breaks are allowed. Maybe it means taking a dirty pee pad outside and making it "the spot" for outside potty breaks. We used a baby corral outside for a while, then made the same spot the "potty place" and would bring the puppy there even when he was too big to go in the corral. We used a specific phrase "hurry up and go", and rewarded the puppy (usually verbally, but some people use treats) for going after hearing the phrase.

                              I'd probably start working hard on that - assigning a phrase, rewarding for outside peeing/pooping, and figuring out a plan for the kitchen -- personally I'd probably get a small (correct size) crate and try to find a dog-walker halfway through the day. If that isn't possible, I think you're going to struggle, but if you are patient (e.g. not being upset for indoor accidents), and work hard on the the outdoor pottying with reward, it will probably work but just take longer.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                A tethered puppy will rare urinate on its own during the 10-15 minutes it is outside. Movement stimulates the need to go. Instead of sitting around and drinking your coffee, put it in a travel mug and take her for a few laps around the neighborhood. Carry a poop bag, extra yummy treats, and a whole lot of patience. When Dexter was a baby it was pretty normal for me to spend 20-30 minutes walking around outside before he would go to the bathroom. Even now it might take a brisk 30 minute walk before he caves in and poops in a new situation. Some dogs are more guarded with their bathroom behavior.

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                                • #56
                                  double post ... nevermind

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                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
                                    A tethered puppy will rare urinate on its own during the 10-15 minutes it is outside. Movement stimulates the need to go.

                                    Agree 100% ... this really helped me get my puppy housebroken.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
                                      And about the water, the dog whisper book i am readinghas told me not to give her unlimited access... Guess he abuses his puppies as well?
                                      If this is who I suspect, he has fielded lawsuits over abuse & death of dogs that came into his training facility/program ...

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        oh dear.

                                        I've had young puppies and worked. Sometimes I didn't get to come home for the shift. Life isn't perfect but the puppy grew up and became a dog and we managed to have a long time together.

                                        It is better for the puppy if you can come home or take her with you and let her out more often, but if you can't, then you need to find an alternate way to confine her and you truly do need to work on not being upset/angry/frustrated because she has accidents. House training is as much a maturity thing (and she's a young puppy) as it is and understanding what you want thing.

                                        Puppies learn to elminate on surfaces. Which is why when I had my puppies, we spent the entire day outside if possible. That way she learned that grass is where she should go. You have effectively let her learn that your kitchen floor is the surface to go on. One thought you might try is NOT restricting water, in fact feeding her goodies that increase water consumption while you are home then take her out and wait. For however long it takes and it may very well take hours, but sooner or later, she will have to go. YOU have to be there to praise her, not be distracted by anything else.

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                                        • #60
                                          When she is at the barn on weekends does she run lose? If so I would keep her crated, take her out for potty breaks, or have on with me on leash. I would not let her run around unsupervised until she is potty trained. As far as home, you have had many good suggestions.

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