• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Looking forward to dog trainer coming on Tuesday - new dog PULLS

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    You know, the Iditarod race is going on right now. "Pull" is a good thing to those dogs. Good timing with your thread!
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by lovey1121 View Post
      He now expects and INSISTS on meeting other dogs he sees, because it sounds like you've allowed it at least once in the past-sometimes, that's all it takes. S
      The previous owner allowed it, obviously. We've had him for 13 days so this habit came with him. Thus, we have four years of bad habit to break.

      Edit: He is not even remotely food-oriented, alas. Doesn't care at all about treats!
      I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry

      Comment


      • #23
        What about toys/balls? If he does, find out what his "high value" toys are and make play time with those into a reward.
        "Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out." ~John Wooden

        Phoenix Animal Rescue

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Guin View Post
          The previous owner allowed it, obviously. We've had him for 13 days so this habit came with him. Thus, we have four years of bad habit to break.

          Edit: He is not even remotely food-oriented, alas. Doesn't care at all about treats!
          Sorry if I assumed the wrong thing, but your OP didn't state those specifics. Good luck tomorrow.

          Comment


          • #25
            Edit: He is not even remotely food-oriented, alas. Doesn't care at all about treats!
            I don't like to use treats or toys for teaching no-pull; it seems to work far better to use environmental rewards for no-pull. In general, the principle for no-pull is: if you do not pull, I will let you move forward. The dog is pulling because he WANTS to move forward, so you teach him the way he gets what he wants is to do what you want, namely, not pull. You're playing the trade game: if you do what I want, you get what you want.

            Normally I'd suggest you NEVER let a dog do those stupid "meet n greets" when on leash- dogs on leashes should never interact with each other- but a) he's already in the habit of it, and b) since that is what this dog wants, maybe you could do a trade:

            If you do not pull, I will let you meet n sniff the other dog?

            Or perhaps there is a destination he really likes going to- a park, perhaps? If you do not pull, you can go to the park?

            So you pick the "reward", make sure you tons of time, and just do it. Pull= we don't move forward; no-pull= we move forward. It takes patience and consistency is all.

            If the dog is too strong for you, and can literally drag you forward, yes, use a tool. I like prong collars, personally. They get the message across clearly and in a humane way, as long as you aren't using the prong to deliver leash-corrections. It's often very easy to transition from a prong to regular collar; it's often very difficult to transition from one of the no-pull halters or nose-halters to a regular collar.

            Comment


            • #26
              Our Golden is the same way when on a leash in public...I'd like trying to keep an elephant under control when he meets people or other dogs.

              I tried a prong collar on him at our local Tractor Supply to see how it worked before buying. I simply slid it on, held the leash so he was by my side with no extra leash to take off, kept my hand stationary at my side, and we started walking. When he got the point that he'd be pulling, I just kept my hand steady. He very quickly learned that pulling wasn't so much fun, and I kid you not, we proceeded to browse the store on a Saturday, with tons of people and other dogs, and he was so quiet next to me, he resembled a seeing-eye dog...stayed consistent next to me, did not pull, it was wonderful!

              Then you have to deal with the nasty stares of people who think you're a big meanie weanie for putting that cruel collar on your dog...
              "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

              Comment


              • #27
                I taught my dogs to heel on a flat collar and walked them thereafter on harnesses. As I said; it's not the tool, it's the technique.

                Paula
                He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                Comment


                • #28
                  I have a question about the method of when the dog pulls, you don't walk forward any longer.

                  Both my dogs will just stand there straining against the leash if I do that. Especially if it's because they see another dog. I do what I've read - I've gotten into a situation where they REALLY want to go investigate something (usually a squirrel or another dog) and I just stop dead. They will just keep on straining forward on me. Like, for minutes upon end. Which I assume is not exactly productive.

                  It's infuriating to me, because when we're just walking along with little distractions, they're perfectly capable of walking at my side with no tension on the lead.

                  I feel like I really need a trainer, because of the above example and one other situation: when new people come into the house, my 2 dogs think they're allowed to go bat$hit crazy-friendly and no amount of the training tricks "I" know have helped. I end up just shutting them up in the guest bedroom. But there literally are no good dog trainers in my area that I know of - and Petsmart is not an option.

                  It's really hard because they're pretty much foot-perfect when they're not obsessed with NEW PERSON!!!! or OTHER DOG!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by JenEM View Post
                    We've got one of the Sporn no-pull harnesses for our dog, and it's been great. Other than her chewing through the mesh She's more of a puller out of wanting to go faster than we necessarily want to walk. We've been working on the whole "be a tree" idea when she starts pulling--just stop, and in my case, I've been reinforcing verbally with "whoa" until she stops and there's slack on the lead, then I ask her to "walk on." She's smart, so it's been pretty effective with her.
                    Yep! For the "make like a tree" you stop as soon as the dog puts tension on the leash. A tip -- Remember to anchor your hand in a fixed position so you don't unwittingly give and take tension yourself just with your arm movement -- anchor your hand against your side or stomach. When stopped due to the dog's pulling, just wait poochie out and at first you may have to reward just the slightest lessening of tension, let them move forward, then if they lunge/pull again, make like a tree again. It is so important to be ready to shape the behavior you want by first rewarding just a slight lessening of tension -- don't wait for the dog to give you complete release so that the leash visibly sags right at first, just reward a tiny lessening of tension, and be aware you can feel changes in tension a lot easier than you can see them.

                    I find this so effective. I used to tell clients that it might take the whole first session just to walk down the driveway, but if they are vigilant about not allowing forward motion unless the leash is loose, the dogs really do figure it out pretty quickly.

                    Another troubleshooting tip -- If you really can't wait your dog out for some reason, make a kissy noise just to get her to snap her head around to orient to you, and that motion gives you the release of tension you need -- be ready to instantly reward it with forward motion.

                    Work on your timing so that the millisecond the tension releases even a little, you are ready to reward with moving forward. The "feel" of it becomes a lot like knowing when to release a rein or leg aid when riding.
                    If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Or you can get a prong collar and let the dog do all the work! LOL
                      “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        OP, how was your session with the trainer yesterday? I hope you were able to get some help. You got some good suggestions here, but sometimes, just like with riding, it helps to have someone actually with you to help you understand and apply what you have read.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Then you have to deal with the nasty stares of people who think you're a big meanie weanie for putting that cruel collar on your dog.
                          that's why you get these: http://lolalimited.net/Secretprong.html

                          gorgeous, well-made collars. They are safer than regular prongs too- sometimes regular prongs just suddenly come apart, and these won't.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Wow, Wendy, those are beautiful! Thanks for posting. I saw one at a boutique pet store recently, and couldn't figure out how it would get put on, so was intrigued to see the turning inside out technique.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                              I think of it like lunging a horse. If you are behind them directly then a horse can drag you around. But if you are at the right angle you can pull a horse off its feet.

                              A dog is smaller then a horse.

                              It has been awhile since I have trained dogs, but this method worked for me every time. If you stand directly behind a dog they will pull and since nothing changes except that they get to go toward what they want they continue to pull.

                              Walk dog in a big open space. As dog is about to hit the end of the leash head in the other direction at an angle. The angle will give you some leverage and the dog will hit the end of the leash and spin around a bit. Look at dog like he is nuts.

                              Repeat. Every time the dog is about to hit the end of the leash and pull turn on your heel at an angle.

                              IGNORE.

                              Every time the dog lets the leash go slack and comes back to you PRAISE.

                              A smart dog learns very quickly where the end of the leash is and that hitting the end results in him being yo yo'd. You don't have to yell at him or say anything or correct him so it isn't really associated with you. The dog figures out where his boundries are and you can start your heeling training by praising him if he comes back to you.

                              I always did this in a regular collar, we didn't have all the extra fancy stuff back then and I wouldn't want to use a chain for it.
                              This.

                              repeatedly.

                              No need for a special collar so long as your dog can't slip the one you are training in.

                              Teaches the dog to watch the moving human they are attached to, not the scenery.

                              Works especially well with a 6' to 10' lead.
                              DO NOT keep a tight lead, there must be slack at all times unless doggie forges out of position on their own mission; when owner makes a right turn, hugs the end of the leash to their chest and takes off.

                              Praise the dog lavishly every time they come up to your side where they are supposed to be.

                              Walk on.

                              Dogs figure it out very quickly.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                This is why we started walking on a harness. Sometimes that self correction can be hard because the dog has taken off explosively (I have dogs with high prey drives). I didn't want all that correction to occur on their necks. Also this is why I walk them on a belt around my waist -when they hit the end of the leash and it's in your hand it is easier for you to reward them by giving. When they're attached to your body the timing of the self correction is much more precise -your trunk won't give like your arm does.

                                Paula
                                He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                  I think of it like lunging a horse. If you are behind them directly then a horse can drag you around. But if you are at the right angle you can pull a horse off its feet.

                                  A dog is smaller then a horse.

                                  It has been awhile since I have trained dogs, but this method worked for me every time. If you stand directly behind a dog they will pull and since nothing changes except that they get to go toward what they want they continue to pull.

                                  Walk dog in a big open space. As dog is about to hit the end of the leash head in the other direction at an angle. The angle will give you some leverage and the dog will hit the end of the leash and spin around a bit. Look at dog like he is nuts.

                                  Repeat. Every time the dog is about to hit the end of the leash and pull turn on your heel at an angle.

                                  IGNORE.

                                  Every time the dog lets the leash go slack and comes back to you PRAISE.

                                  A smart dog learns very quickly where the end of the leash is and that hitting the end results in him being yo yo'd. You don't have to yell at him or say anything or correct him so it isn't really associated with you. The dog figures out where his boundries are and you can start your heeling training by praising him if he comes back to you.

                                  I always did this in a regular collar, we didn't have all the extra fancy stuff back then and I wouldn't want to use a chain for it.
                                  Yup - this exactly. My 8 yo Irish Wolfhound was 5 when we got her. She yanked the former owner out of PetCo to meet us. Was sitting on one side of the back seat on the way home, and LEAPT over ExSO when we opened the door on his side, bloodying his arm, and dragging him for about 50' before he was able to stop her.

                                  She also was scared to death of walks anywhere near any cars or trucks.

                                  I immediately contacted some IW people, got the name of an excellent trainer, and what she taught us was exactly what is mentioned here.

                                  The first couple of months were challenging, but she greatly improved. Repeated practice was crucial. Praise as well. And routine.

                                  And the "make like a tree" for any instance where she was going to excitedly head away from you.

                                  I previously raised Labs, and was used to basic obedience training. Eventually, we got where we could walk off leash with additional training, and she returns to us. Even walking through fields. She's a sighthound, so it's not always right away, but eventually.

                                  She is 125 lbs, and I've never had to use a severe collar on her. In fact, she walks on a cloth choke collar. It did not take much to undo 5 years of not knowing what was expected of her. Just a lot of practice!

                                  Oh, and sometimes you will get dizzy with all the quick turn-arounds!

                                  Good luck. You'll get there!
                                  But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Hi all - due to a family member in the hospital I've had to postpone the trainer. BUT --- I have been practicing that spinning around while leash walking and that has worked very well for the general pulling. I almost think someone taught him that before, but didn't practice it very often. After 15 minutes of about-faces, he was walking right beside me at my pace.
                                    In terms of other dogs, he has been pretty polite recently. Really all he wants to do is sniff and then he moves on about his business. Thanks for everyone's suggestions. He is really a good dog.
                                    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      My horrible puller is now walking beautifully with an Easy-Walk harness. The leash attaches at the chest, and the other straps apply pressure behind the front legs (like a Sporn) if she still pulls. I LOVE LOVE LOVE it. Has been just great, and incidentally, is what was recommended here when I asked for advice!

                                      We had tried a Gentle Leader in the past and while it worked, poor doggie grew to hate it so passionately I couldn't use it anymore. We went to a pinch/prong collar, and that worked just fine. We were both quite happy with it (she would come running for walks instead of running away from the GL). A year ago, though, she developed back pain from spinal arthritis and I had to find something else that didn't "torque" her neck at all. She pulled too much in a regular harness. So I asked for help on this forum, and voila, Easy Walk. Can't recommend enough!

                                      Hope the trainer helps you whatever you wind up doing. Being pulled off your feet is never any fun!
                                      "Horses lend us the wings we lack." ~ Pam Brown

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        When he's right by your side you can say "heel!!!" What a good boy! So he starts to associate the word heel with being by your side. Eventually you can shorten up the leash and heel for short periods (while keeping the leash loose and doing the yo yo on a short leash) then let him go with "go sniff!" when he has done it for a bit. Never say "heel" unless you mean it. The dog needs to be either right by your side or on his way, every time you do something without meaning it is a step toward untraining.

                                        I had "on duty" and "off duty" When I was just out for a walk my dog could go anywhere the leash let her as long as she didn't pull. This was her time to sniff and have fun. But when we were "working" she had to stay in heel. When you are ready to go back to work say "come!" have him come up to you (reel him in if you need to) ask him to sit, then say "heel!"

                                        Before you cross any street get him back by your side and ask him to sit, then cross. You'll start to train in the automatic sit when you come to a halt while heeling, and your dog learns that can NEVER cross a street before he sits which is much safer. You can even add in a "sidewalk" command.
                                        http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X