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Teeth, Face, Personal Space: Please Advise

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  • #21
    Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
    A four year old is not a toddler. And old enough to obey instructions about leaving a dog alone.
    I definitely agree, and so did the grandmother. The mother, OTOH, thought the widdle precious baby should be allowed to do whatever he pleases.

    StG

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    • #22
      I think it's been said already in a certain way, but remember that sighthounds are not calm, they are still.

      Paula
      He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

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      • #23
        Your dog didn't growl before snapping, but perhaps gave a small subtle clue, like a quick tongue flick? Probably too quick to catch, but it's a sign that a dog is uncomfortable.

        Comment


        • #24
          Interesting. My gal is an Irish Wolfhound - and having had Labs, thought she was dumb-as-a-stump, until I understood her sighthound mentality. But she has shown no propensity whatsoever to being upset by a face in her face. Of course, she also wasn't trained for the track.

          What I was wondering is if there is any kind of remnants of head/neck injuries.

          My SIL had a Basenji (not my favorite dog) who was obnoxious enough - but if you ever just touched his neck he would attack visciously - reportedly from an injury as a puppy. Bit through my hand once when they had him on a long lead, that got wrapped around her elderly mother's ankles - had to hop up and catch her before she fell, and he "rewarded" me as I tried to unravel them.
          But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
            I must have been raised around much more affectionate and tolerant dogs than some of you.
            Me too. Not to say that it's intolerable and an instant route to euthanization for a dog to do what OP's dog is doing - many very nice dogs have little nasty spots - but it's discouraging to see people making so many excuses as if it's typical for a dog to go to aggressive threats to back off a human making a very, very mildly unpleasant gesture. It's within the tolerable range of behaviors, but it's simply not what ANY dog might do. It's what a dog with a little bit of a screw loose will do. No offense, OP, lots of nice dogs have a few loose screws.

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            • #26
              Note to OP- I'm not at all referring to you in my post. Good luck with your dog

              Originally posted by wendy View Post
              Dogs hate being hugged. You have to teach your dog to just tolerate it. And tolerate faces shoved into his. Dogs hate that too- it's an aggressive behavior.
              Seriously? Try telling that to my dogs, or most of the family dogs I've met. My old lab LOVES getting full on hugged, especially by little kids. She likes when I watch TV on her bed, with her wrapped in my arms. She has from the first time we met her at 4 weeks old. My insecure, needy, nervous adopted dog LOVES having his face in our face. Kisses on the nose, resting your forehead on his, letting him sniff your nose, all make him very happy. Of course, he'd be happiest if he could lick faces, but he's a crap eater so that's a no-no.

              I'm not saying all dogs like this sort of thing, I've met many reactive dogs who don't like pressures and react poorly. And many people don't mind having a dog like this. But you are WAY over generalizing when you say dogs perceive it as aggressive and that nipping/growling is an appropriate response. And personally, I want a dog who doesn't view aggression as a response to pressure.
              .

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              • #27
                Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                I think it's been said already in a certain way, but remember that sighthounds are not calm, they are still. Paula
                Oh, well said. That sums up quite a few breeds/individuals that get too much credit for being calm, then surprise people by behaving with "sudden" action.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by vacation1 View Post
                  Me too. Not to say that it's intolerable and an instant route to euthanization for a dog to do what OP's dog is doing - many very nice dogs have little nasty spots - but it's discouraging to see people making so many excuses as if it's typical for a dog to go to aggressive threats to back off a human making a very, very mildly unpleasant gesture. It's within the tolerable range of behaviors, but it's simply not what ANY dog might do. It's what a dog with a little bit of a screw loose will do. No offense, OP, lots of nice dogs have a few loose screws.
                  The thing is- it's NOT a "mildly unpleasant gesture". To THIS dog, and many dogs, it is an extremely aggressive encroachment into their personal space. Saying the dog has a screw loose because it is trying very, very hard to express it's tremendous discomfort and fear is disheartening to ME.

                  I've got a dog who loves being hugged as well, but he is very much an exception to standard rules, and he wants hugs and in-your-face interaction from a very limited list of people. When strangers get in his face, he turns away, tenses up and generally says as loudly as he can "Please back off". Six years ago, he likely would have done exactly what the OP's dog is doing. He has had six years to learn to politely ask for space, and OP's dog will very likely learn to request this space more politely as well with time. I do think this is a problem, for the reasons stated so articulately by other posters, but the dog really IS displaying very good bite inhibition for an animal that is unused to extremely close human interaction, and a dog that wants to please and is trying hard can be worked with. No screws loose here, just a dog communicating in the only way they know how to.
                  bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
                  free bar.ka and tidy rabbit

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
                    This is a sighthound, and not one bred for companionship; although if understood and treated accordingly can be a wonderful companion. It isn't a Golden Retreiver or a Cattle dog and will NOT react as they might. .
                    This made me laugh...are you familiar with cattle dogs, because I can assure you, if you got in my cattle dogs face, you may not be so lucky as the OP who escaped with no teeth actually breaking skin...

                    Cattle dogs aren't bred for companionship either, they're bred for working.
                    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      So those of you with dogs that won't allow you to get in their faces, surely you muzzle them when taking them to the vet, right?

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
                        This made me laugh...are you familiar with cattle dogs, because I can assure you, if you got in my cattle dogs face, you may not be so lucky as the OP who escaped with no teeth actually breaking skin...

                        Cattle dogs aren't bred for companionship either, they're bred for working.
                        I've known only a few cattle dogs, but they'd certainly let "their person" get in their face so to speak.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Rubyfree View Post
                          The thing is- it's NOT a "mildly unpleasant gesture". To THIS dog, and many dogs, it is an extremely aggressive encroachment into their personal space. Saying the dog has a screw loose because it is trying very, very hard to express it's tremendous discomfort and fear is disheartening to ME.

                          I've got a dog who loves being hugged as well, but he is very much an exception to standard rules, and he wants hugs and in-your-face interaction from a very limited list of people. When strangers get in his face, he turns away, tenses up and generally says as loudly as he can "Please back off". Six years ago, he likely would have done exactly what the OP's dog is doing. He has had six years to learn to politely ask for space, and OP's dog will very likely learn to request this space more politely as well with time. I do think this is a problem, for the reasons stated so articulately by other posters, but the dog really IS displaying very good bite inhibition for an animal that is unused to extremely close human interaction, and a dog that wants to please and is trying hard can be worked with. No screws loose here, just a dog communicating in the only way they know how to.
                          Overall the posts in this thread puzzle me. Not so much regarding the OP's dog, who was a racing dog and not a pet, but everyone else's. Did you get them as puppies or as adults with baggage?

                          I've known a lot of dogs, actually, and most did like to be hugged. Dogs are companion animals. They often prefer humans to their own kind. Dogs that are bred as strictly working dogs are very rare in this country now. They very often get in OUR space. So often, it's usually one of the first dog training concerns that people have. ("My dog keeps jumping on everyone in greeting, what do I do?")

                          I don't get in the faces of dogs I don't know very well, and I also expect the dog not to get in mine unless I say it's OK.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            My vet has never, ever tried to make kissy face with my dog. If he were to do so, I would absolutely muzzle him. (The dog, not the vet, although if my vet did try to make kissy face at my dog, muzzling him wouldn't be far from my mind.)

                            I got this dog as a puppy. No baggage except what was pre-installed.

                            I've known many cattle dogs, and while most of them might ALLOW "their" person to get in their face for a moment, it's not something most of those people would do lightly, nor for any extended period of time.

                            I've known a lot of dogs too and can think of maybe three who LIKED being hugged. I'm counting the one sleeping on my feet ATM, who requests hugs/in your face interaction from me, my SO, and my former room mate whom he adores only. I've known many others who would TOLERATE it, and celebrate the release of the hug with wagging and happy behavior. ("Now that you've done that thing you insist on doing, let's do dog stuff!").

                            The fact that dogs have been bred to be companions for generations and enjoy or prefer the company of humans does not remove the genetic material that makes them DOGS, and getting in a dogs face is VERY intimidating and aggressive. Many dogs, bred for generations to be companions, will tolerate our human gestures of affection because we have bred them to be TOLERANT companions. They are still dogs, not wee furry people.
                            bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
                            free bar.ka and tidy rabbit

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
                              So those of you with dogs that won't allow you to get in their faces, surely you muzzle them when taking them to the vet, right?
                              If there's going to be messing about with the ears/face? Absolutely.

                              My GSD is sweet, and tolerates little kids hugging him. Strange adults leaning into his space? Not so much.

                              He snapped at the vet tech once when he had a bad ear infection - didn't bite down - but that was enough. He now gets the muzzle for everyone's safety.

                              OP, I think you are doing fine by this dog. Keep working with him, you and he will learn to read each other better and how to see this sort of thing coming. Obedience/agility training is very helpful.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Sorry to get away from the OP's post but I have two cattle dogs, one I got at 6 months and one I got at a year old and the challenge is to keep them OUT of my face. They are the lickiest, cuddliest dogs I have ever owned.
                                My blog: Crackerdog Farm

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Yes, MY cattle dog will allow both me and my boyfriend to get in his face, but he only tolerates it. He is kissy and licky too, but only when its his idea. If a stranger were to try to make kissy face with him, they would get snapped at.

                                  He came to me as a puppy, no baggage, and has been socialized quite a bit. A cattle dog tendency is to be leary of stranger (and therefore, want to protect their personal space).

                                  If the vet is going to be leaning down near his face, I recommend to the vet that he be muzzled.
                                  "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    OP, I think if you have a dog who doesn't want you in his face, don't get in his face.
                                    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      The closer I get to our dogs, the faster their tails wag.

                                      I also differ with some posters..Greyhounds were bred for centuries by the Berbers in North Africa. They lived with them in close contact as valued family members who depended upon their huting skills. Rather like the Arab horse.

                                      I'm hoping the OP's dog has the standard Greyhound personality, and needing time.

                                      However, no child should go up to a dog that does not know it and maul it
                                      Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Rubyfree View Post
                                        My vet has never, ever tried to make kissy face with my dog. If he were to do so, I would absolutely muzzle him. (The dog, not the vet, although if my vet did try to make kissy face at my dog, muzzling him wouldn't be far from my mind.)
                                        Rolls eyes. I'm not talking about kissy face, I'm talking about the vet examining the dog's mouth, eyes, and ears. You know, like the vet does whenever he examines a dog. I would expect my dog to tolerate the same from me.

                                        The dogs I grew up with were definitely more friendly and tolerant than the ones some of you know. In my neighborhood growing up the dogs hung out with the kids and no one was bitten. The only exception was a female Great Dane who started attacking people who walked past her driveway (and was dealt with accordingly by animal control when the owner didn't keep her contained). Big behavior change for her and I always imagined she had a medical problem (brain or adrenal tumor). In my family the dogs always curled up beside us or on our laps.

                                        That said, I wouldn't want to "make kissy face" with a dog unless 1) I knew the dog and the owner, 2) the dog was absolutely adorable and friendly and 3) the dog doesn't stink. So many dogs stink, the owners don't bathe them enough. Blech.
                                        Last edited by grayarabpony; Feb. 27, 2013, 01:02 PM.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
                                          This made me laugh...are you familiar with cattle dogs, because I can assure you, if you got in my cattle dogs face, you may not be so lucky as the OP who escaped with no teeth actually breaking skin...

                                          Cattle dogs aren't bred for companionship either, they're bred for working.
                                          Yep, very familiar with Cattle Dogs.
                                          I was posting them as a distant almost opposite comparison to a Golden Retriever, not as if they are the same.
                                          Most Goldens still have the soft mouth of retreivers/gun dogs, while Cattle Dogs may be required to bite large dangerous livestock.

                                          Untrained, loose cattle dogs are some of the worst livestock killers in our area: smart, efficient, tough and fearless - you can't get them to back down, sadly.

                                          Absolutely fantastic dogs if well trained by someone who understands them.

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