• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Is there any reason why I should not think clicker training is an awesome thing?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is there any reason why I should not think clicker training is an awesome thing?

    I've got an anxious, worried 20 month old BC mix. She landed with us from family who, while well-intentioned, were in completely over their heads when they got her as a puppy. They crated her much of the time and used a shock collar. She also didn't leave the house/yard - when they brought her to us last summer that was the first time she'd ever been anywhere but home.

    She's a sweet, bright little thing and we love her. She goes for daily runs with me, we get out to lots of places, and we've done a couple of obedience classes. We've recently started an intro to agility class and were introduced to clicker training - and I can't believe the difference it's making for this dog. She used to get anxious with even the most positive training and was very worried about going places - it took several classes for her to stop cowering and shaking when we went; she was just so overwhelmed by the situation.

    After a couple of weeks of working with the clicker, she's a different dog. She *towed* me into the room where class is held last night and was bright, focused, and happy the entire time we were there. When we have a mini-training session at home she doesn't want to stop and keeps engaging me to do more. I love how confident she's gotten over the past two weeks!

    So is there any reason I'm missing why this is not a Very Good Thing? Our goal is to have fun, make her a happy family dog, and maybe dabble in UKC obedience or agility someday if she's having fun. She was getting pretty focused on the treats with the clicker and I've been phasing them out more and more, which has helped. If anything, she's too enthusiastic to go to work - she was all over the place last night at first because she just couldn't wait to *do stuff.* I love the change in my dog, I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on some huge downside to this!

  • #2
    Have seen that time and again, all kinds of dogs and owners learning a different way to communicate thru operant conditioning.

    Our dog club has specific "clicker" classes and they are a hoot to watch.

    I have not seen any situation where clicker training was detrimental, although you have to learn to use that technique right, where you can phase down rewards and end up with a good working animal, that loves the work and is interested in working with you as the primary motivation.
    Treats are still used, but for many dogs, they lose their importance quickly, when done right, as working itself is what they crave.

    We used that with our herding dogs, but of course then didn't use that while herding, that is a different kind of work, where you work with the dog's instincts primarily.

    Above all, just remember to have fun and what you do will be fun for your dog.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm a big fan
      It's a small world -- unless you gotta walk home.

      Comment


      • #4
        I turned an uncatchable horse into a catchable one with a clicker. I don't use it all the time, mostly for things that are harder to get my point across:
        If you come to me, good things happen. Yes?
        If you let me Dremel your toe nails, good things happen. Yes?
        (There are a lot of steps in between the end result.)

        They always say, "Yes!"
        You are what you dare.

        Comment


        • #5
          It is an awesome thing. The learning curve can be a challenge for the handler, but once you understand it the world opens to you. It works great for animals who don't want to be handled, for sharp animals, for shy animals, for really really smart animals. I used CT to get Fella to blanket (he had never had one), to train him to come to me from the field and put his head over the gate to be haltered, etc. My first dog was conventionally trained but thereafter all my animals are operant. Heck I'm half-assed potty training my parrot so my shoulder stays clean (basically picking her up after she poops will essentially turn pottying into offering behavior to be carried around).

          Paula
          He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JustJumpIt! View Post
            We've recently started an intro to agility class and were introduced to clicker training - and I can't believe the difference it's making for this dog.

            After a couple of weeks of working with the clicker, she's a different dog. She *towed* me into the room where class is held last night and was bright, focused, and happy the entire time we were there. When we have a mini-training session at home she doesn't want to stop and keeps engaging me to do more. I love how confident she's gotten over the past two weeks!

            So is there any reason I'm missing why this is not a Very Good Thing? Our goal is to have fun, make her a happy family dog, and maybe dabble in UKC obedience or agility someday if she's having fun. She was getting pretty focused on the treats with the clicker and I've been phasing them out more and more, which has helped. If anything, she's too enthusiastic to go to work - she was all over the place last night at first because she just couldn't wait to *do stuff.* I love the change in my dog, I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on some huge downside to this!
            You are not missing anything. C/t is usually far more easy for animals to understand as it adds a consistency to how they learn. It so clearly tells them what the correct answer is that a bright dog turns into a confident, working machine.

            Good for you for 1. taking on this dog and 2. finding a way to communicate effectively with her.

            if there is a downside, it will be for you. You will likely never go back to traditional training and you will at some point wonder what you could have done for this dog or that dog, if you'd found clicker training earlier.

            Good luck with your dog, I'm sure she's just lovin' this.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              [QUOTE=threedogpack;6836298]
              if there is a downside, it will be for you. You will likely never go back to traditional training and you will at some point wonder what you could have done for this dog or that dog, if you'd found clicker training earlier.
              QUOTE]

              Yes to this... last Fall we had to euthanize my beloved rescue dog when we just couldn't work through his intermittent, but dangerous, aggression issues stemming from abuse. I'm starting to wonder what we could have done if I had just been able to make things clearer for him...

              Comment


              • #8
                Love clicker training great for agility too!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JustJumpIt! View Post

                  Yes to this... last Fall we had to euthanize my beloved rescue dog when we just couldn't work through his intermittent, but dangerous, aggression issues stemming from abuse. I'm starting to wonder what we could have done if I had just been able to make things clearer for him...
                  JJI, you would likely have made it a certain plateau and stayed there with constant training. Often, just as with people, there are issues that cannot be completely fixed. I lived with a dog like this for 4 years. He was an older dog but I'd known him when he was just a young dog. The dog I picked up 8 years after the initial meeting, was not the same dog I'd known when he was young. Whatever happened to him, was mostly permanent. He was "ok" in some situations with some people, but there was no eradicating what he learned completely.

                  So don't beat yourself up too badly, sometimes the damage is simply to great.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you want to try something really fun( that I just discovered) is Karen Pryor's
                    101 Things to do with a Box. Just Google that and you will find instructions. It's all about free shaping and it's really a ton of fun!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The only downside I've ever seen with clicker-training is sometimes people forget to cut back on the animal's food and it gets a bit pudgy from the extra treats.

                      Otherwise, once you've experienced it, you'll never go back to any other method of training. It's incredible. And the best part, the more you train your dog, the faster he learns new stuff.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My first cocker was SO treat-driven he used to run through his entire repertoire of tricks whenever I was standing/sitting still, just hoping he'd hit one that I'd click/treat him for
                        It's a small world -- unless you gotta walk home.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So what books do you all recommend for starting out? And is there one that is good for horses as well, or is there a really good book specifically for horses?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Karen Pryor's Don't Shoot The Dog has always been the one I've heard of recommended first.
                            It's a small world -- unless you gotta walk home.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cloudy18 View Post
                              So what books do you all recommend for starting out? And is there one that is good for horses as well, or is there a really good book specifically for horses?
                              Recommended:
                              http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB917DMG

                              http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB647

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                for free:

                                http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Thank you, threedogpack! I'm pretty decent at coming up with "games," but when it comes to getting, um, "normal trained dog" behaviors, I always draw a blank.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks! There's a lot of info in that link. I know what I will be doing if it's slow at work tomorrow. OP, thanks for your success story. I don't have anxious dogs here, but really want to try a few things with the youngest, and with the horses as well.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      JustJumpIt, I would suggest that you get very comfortable with the clicker & the dog before attempting a horse. Horses do not always respond the same way a dog does and it's one thing to be mugged by a dog, a whole different thing to have a pushy horse.

                                      You can still apply the principles of c/t to horses without using food as well. I'm going to start a marker program with my younger mare, but not introduce food and see how that works for her. It will be pressure/release with a sound marker when she does it correctly so that she knows what got the pressure released. Sort of a modified c/t.

                                      I'm doing this because so many horsemen have a serious problem with hand feeding and/or treats. Since this mare may not be staying, I want to make communication clear to her, but not set her up to be in trouble with her next owner or trainer.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I tried clicker training with my horse. I watched someone who did clicker training a lot with her horse and she had lots of success. I tried it with my LOVES FOOD mare, (lady said I was doing everything right) but after less than 5 mins my mare would completely ignore me. She would stand there, staring straight forward and even if I tried jamming food in her face she wouldn't take it. I could jump around, wave my arms, yell (not at her just trying to get her attention) and she would just stand there, staring ahead.
                                        She also refused her first fences ever the day we tried clicker training before a lesson.
                                        Apparently, even though this mare LOVED food and treats, she would NOT work for food.
                                        However I have done it on and off with my dogs and they enjoy it.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X