• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Spin of spin: SubQ fluids? Like a drive-through?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spin of spin: SubQ fluids? Like a drive-through?

    I'm impressed by you cat types taking up all that modern medicine has to offer, especially hooking your cat up to a bag of Lactated Ringers often.

    What's that like? A total PITA for man and beast? Expensive? Any techniques to make it easier?

    CatofGreatness probably could use this addition to her medical repertoire and I'm not looking forward to it so I need help.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

  • #2
    I do it about once a week. It's not a big huge deal. I sit her in my lap, make sure the bag is hung above us, stick in the needle and we just sit. Some days she is better than others. A bag lasts about 8 weeks doing it once a week, although sometimes I do it an extra time. For the bag, the line, and the needles, I pay about $20. My girl has been on it for 14 months and it has made a difference.
    Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Goethe

    Comment


    • #3
      Super easy, as long as your cat cooperates. Most do. Some do not. If they're not feeling real well, that can actually help. Sometimes they get worse about it as they feel better. I've never had a cat, though, that I haven't been able to do.

      A vet supply place will have the fluids, infusion set and needles for waaaay cheaper than your local vet. Bag of fluids: About five bucks. Infusion set: Three-four bucks. Needles: Maybe 13 bucks for a box of 100?

      I find it easiest with another person. My set up is to put the cat on a padded small ottoman or large stool, the other person stabilizes the cat and keeps it from leaving and I manage the needle and infusion. I usually give 100 ccs in a session and the time between sessions depends on the cat and what's going on. I can do it alone with the cat on my lap, but it can be a little more difficult if the kitty likes to squirm.

      My vet always prescribes Normosol-R if he wants me giving fluids.

      Comment


      • #4
        For an unwilling cat, you can always make a purrito using a bath towel. With both my cats that needed it, towards the end I was doing it every day. I would sit down, legs outstretched, put cat between legs facing forwards. It's actually pretty easy if cat cooperates.

        One time I tried to show my friend with a kitty that had feline AIDS how to do it and kitty was SO upset he bit me down to the bone on my hand. By the time I got to the ER the hand was swollen twice its size and unuseable for several days even with the strong antibiotics they gave me.
        What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by oliverreed View Post
          For an unwilling cat, you can always make a purrito using a bath towel. With both my cats that needed it, towards the end I was doing it every day. I would sit down, legs outstretched, put cat between legs facing forwards. It's actually pretty easy if cat cooperates.

          One time I tried to show my friend with a kitty that had feline AIDS how to do it and kitty was SO upset he bit me down to the bone on my hand. By the time I got to the ER the hand was swollen twice its size and unuseable for several days even with the strong antibiotics they gave me.
          A PURRITO! That's nice.

          I'm sorry to hear about an AIDS cat biting to the bone. It's nice when a sick animal still has some chutzpah, but even better if they can channel it differently!
          The armchair saddler
          Politically Pro-Cat

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks to everyone who has shared their "Meh, no big deal" experiences.

            How long does it take to put 100 ml of fluid into a cat?

            And I think the loose skin of a cat is a great design feature. SubQ injections seem like the "offering" that cats have made us so that we can deliver meds n' such with a minimum of suffering. Much better than down the throat or up the bum, eh? And cats aren't good IV drug junkies. Small veins, too much fur.....
            The armchair saddler
            Politically Pro-Cat

            Comment


            • #7
              It doesn't take long, maybe 5 minutes. The trick is to pull up the scruff of the neck and insert the needle horizontally into the middle of the pulled-up scruff. That way it's under the skin and not into the muscle. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it right, if it's not in correctly the fluid will leak back out and then you have to do it again.

              I was pretty scared about the whole thing the first time but there's a knack to it - practice mamkes perfect.

              Good luck with your baby.
              What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh, and the ER staff and I learned that feline AIDS is not communicable to humans. None of us were sure. They contacted the CDC. Whew.
                Last edited by oliverreed; Feb. 7, 2013, 02:59 PM. Reason: typo
                What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!

                Comment


                • #9
                  My mom does it to her cat and has been doing so since October of 2011. Her cat isn't bad for it. The only time she isn't well behaved is if the fluids are cold, so my mom warms them in a warm water bath. (Note: my step-dad keeps the house freezing, so room temp is just to cold for her)
                  I love cats, I love every single cat....
                  So anyway I am a cat lover
                  And I love to run.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Oooh! Temperature. I hadn't thought of that. Catness thanks you from the bottom of her heart for that clue.
                    The armchair saddler
                    Politically Pro-Cat

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Call it five minutes or so, depending on the size of the needle and how fast you can get it to run. Smaller needles generally = more comfortable for the cat, but more time. And placement is key, too. Sometimes everything LOOKS good, but it just won't drip well. Adjusting can make things run more freely.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Subq really is no big deal at all!
                        I use size 18 needles (a little larger but faster)

                        Set up the rig - plug the tubing into the bag and a needle on the end (definitely NEW needle after each poke, goes in MUCH easier!!)

                        Depending on kitty, set him on my lap with the bag hung on a hanger or something high in front of me so I get gravity, and can see the line on the bag to see how much is going in. And make sure the roller thing that opens and closes the line is in easy reach!

                        make a little tent with the fur behind his neck/withers and insert needle (i go pretty much straight down, as going side ways you will poke through and water will leak out down his side, ask me how know!! ) Open the line. Kitty may squirm a bit. If on someone else's lap, they can help keep a hold of him while I watch the line. sometimes cats really don't mind that much and just sit there. I have had to put in, I think, 200, but only put in 100 at each site - so after 100 then repoke and do another 100, if vet feels really dehydrated.

                        They will look a little like Quasimodo!

                        It barely takes 5 minutes with the big needles and speed is definitely your friend with this!

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          You know, cats spend more than 5 minutes chillin' in one position at a time. You'd think they could do that for medical purposes, especially on a lap.
                          The armchair saddler
                          Politically Pro-Cat

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            LOL. Yeah you'd think. It's really not that bad. You do want to make sure you didn't hit a vein (very unlikely), and you can squeeze the bag.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wow, an 18 g needle is a firehose. I don't even like to use them on my horses! If your cat tolerates that, awesome, but I prefer to use 22's when I do fluids.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well, a tiny little firehose, but the advantage is...speed! you're in and out. I have waited with the tiny little 20s (never tried a 22), and the cats to whom i've had to administer too just hated to sit that long. Even my tiny little girl who died from CRF last winter appeared to prefer the larger needle (never complained). If I had a cat that would sit for it, I think I would go smaller. For th most part, they are pretty good for about a 100/under five minutes. I will say that I use a new needle not only after every use but after every poke (sometimes I go "through"), so it goes in smoothly each time. So far, even my bitey cat has been okay for the process - he just got some today to help with pooping (and it did! hooray!) and he did really, really well!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I can do 100 ccs in five minutes or less with a 22, too. I would expect an 18 to go much quicker than that!

                                  Glad your kitties seem to do well with that size

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    18G works like a charm on wiggly cats. Just dont resue the needle so you always have a sharp one. You can easily get 100ml's in in under a minute if you have a cat who wants nothing to do with sitting still.

                                    People think its just huge, but these are the size IV catheters we place in their wee veins, so its really not that bad making one poke under the skin Usually freaks the owners out more than the cats.

                                    Otherwise, a 22g needle if more "friendly"but will take more time for the fluids to push through.


                                    ETA - some cats don't like Lactated Ringers, if your cat is ancy or is objective at all, try something like PLA or Normosol.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      What is PLA or Normosol? I haven't heard of those (have Lactated Ringers) but always interested in options.

                                      i've just used 18 gauge (I think!) but I can see the advantage if kitty is getting poked every day of using something smaller.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        They are just different types of crystalloid fluids, PLA has a more alkaline pH where Lactated Ringers and Normosol are more acidifying (not a bad thing!).

                                        LR is buffered with Lactate and PLA/Normosol I believe are buffered with glucomate. There are also slight electrolyte differences, but usually nothing to make a huge different in a cat who is otherwise eating decently.

                                        Not sure if its the lactate or the pH that causes some cats to dislike LR, but those then usually do fine with PLA. There are cats who also experience this the other way around where the PLA will sting, and the LR will be fine. Otherwise, there really is no major benefit to one over the other unless the cat is hypercalemic (in that case,its best to avoid LR as its has added calcium. LR is typically much cheaper and do the same job so many vets will suggest this.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X