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When to Vaccinate and When to Titer?

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  • #41
    Don't freeze to death Ghazzu!!! We'd miss you!
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    • #42
      Originally posted by BuddyRoo View Post
      We would not allow dogs to stay at the clinic for non-emergent stuff such as dental cleanings, drop off exams (for things like skin issues), baths, etc if they did not have proof (from a vet) of being current on DA2PP, Rabies, HW, and fecal. If we had an emergency case and the dog was not current, we'd typically keep them in isolation for their protection.
      Not even with proof of current titer? I vaccinate for rabies and titer for Distemper/Parvo.


      • #43
        Originally posted by vtdobes View Post
        Not even with proof of current titer? I vaccinate for rabies and titer for Distemper/Parvo.
        See previous discourse on titers.
        They just are not reliable as indication of how, on exposure, that individual measured will respond, be titer numbers high or low, for most diseases.
        Different parts of the immune system at work there.
        We don't know enough, why take chances with yours or your animal's health on some not quite proven techniques?

        My guess, down the years, we will find something else to add to titers to make them more reliable, or maybe refine them into even more distinct substances and then maybe some of those will be a good indicator of protection.
        As of today, I would not count on them too much either way, to show sufficient protection or not enough.


        • #44
          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
          See previous discourse on titers.
          They just are not reliable as indication of how, on exposure, that individual measured will respond, be titer numbers high or low, for most diseases.
          Different parts of the immune system at work there.
          We don't know enough, why take chances with yours or your animal's health on some not quite proven techniques?
          I'm sorry - did I miss something above? What exactly makes the titer less reliable?

          If my vet recommended a titer instead of a vaccine, I am 100% confident that he would allow my dog to stay at the clinic for anything he needed.

          That said, it has been my vet that recommended titer v. vaccine, and I am sure he would not have done so if my dog was at a particular risk for something and he did not think a titer was sufficiently reliable to protect my dog.

          I also think my vet clinic is pretty careful about not over-vaccinating; they always ask you to spread out vaccines over the course of a week or two if you are willing to come back, and will not charge you for the appointment or the vitals check before vaccinating.


          • #45
            One problem with titers is that they only measure humoral response, which is just a part of the whole.
            They're certainly a tool, but I do hope that we can eventually find more accurate ways of measuring true immune-response potential to a given pathogen.
            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


            • #46
              "For you that only do the rabies vaccine, for adult dogs, do you ever have any problems with the vet because you do not vaccinate? I have heard stories, never first hand, from some who could not get a vet for issues with out first vaccinating. "

              I've never had an issue with any of the three vets I've used. One's response was "it's smarter medicine to do it this way anyway" (when I asked for a titer), one never commented on it at all after they said "Your dog is due for Distemper/Parvo" and I said "I only vaccinate this one for rabies now"; my current vet I actually asked before moving there, and they are fine with it. A fairly high percentage of the dog people I know do limited vaccines; I've never once heard of anyone having an issue with a vet clinic.

              My vet also runs a 24/7 emergency clinic, so if my dogs have to go in there, it won't be an issue.
              "Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." ~Mal, Firefly


              • #47
                Titers are used by vaccine companies to see that immune systems respond strongly to each type of vaccine they test and they discard the ones that don't.

                BUT, when you expose those individuals with high and low titers, there was not in any study I know about where those with high titers were any more or less protected when exposed than those with low titers.
                As those studies indicated, there is more to this story yet to be discovered.

                Our vet, last time we talked about this, said that he tries to vaccinate the best he can figure for each animal, but since it is hard to find the perfect individual protocol, if he has to err, to him it is better to do so by over, rather than under vaccinating.

                My dog had a reaction to the second go round of puppy shots and I had to drive her back right away to the clinic, where they stabilized her.
                After that, because she is a farm and obedience/agility/demonstration dog and needs those vaccines, the protocol for her was preventive treatment and vaccines as necessary.

                Any other dog living in someone's house and not mixing with other dogs may have different needs.

                If your vet feels comfortable with titers and minimal vaccines for your dog, why not?
                That doesn't mean any other vet vaccinating any other dog may be compared to your situation and be said to be under- or over-vaccinating.

                We don't know enough and we are learning, stay tuned.


                • #48
                  "People don't need to vaccinated every year for most vaccines...why should dogs if the immunity lasts?"

                  Yeah, I've always wondered this too. Is there actually a good reason, or any proof, that this is necessary, or is it just 'standard practice' (as recommended by the vaccine manufacturers)?


                  • #49
                    All creatures have different immune response, even in the same species you can see variation which is why they base the vaccine regimen on the average response.

                    You as a person may do well with your tetanus vaccine for a longer than me, but if both of us get a puncture, they'll probably ask us both to booster our tetanus vaccine, no?

                    And it's just not comparable necessarily between species. Our immune system as humans may be similar to a dog's but it's not the same.
                    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


                    • #50
                      What over vaccination? I have owned 12 dogs for their entire lives so far and they get vaccines every year (except for rabies, which is 1 yr, then 3 year in my state) They regularly live to 14-15 years and I had one live till 17. I don't see vaccination as a problem. In the vet clinic where I work we might occasionally see a reaction to lepto. Any dog known to have a vaccine reaction will get pre-treatment prior to vaccination. I only know of one patient where they do not receive specific vaccines due to reactions.


                      • #51
                        Here in Va they are doing the 3 year protocol for rabies. They have just this year changed the dog license to a 3 year term as well. My dog is in Obedience training and the trainer requires proof of vaccination. My dog just had her vaccinations Wednesday and had a reaction. Had to rush her back to the vet for Cortisone and Benadryl.