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Sad story - neighbor shoots dog

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  • pezk
    Working Hunter
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2009
    Posts
    192

    Well that was told to me by a very well known dog trainer who deals esp with problem/aggressive dogs. He has 50/60 yrs of dog experience. Of course you never put your face in that situation. I've seen him in action with highly aggressive dogs.
    It's a last ditch effort but it works(unless it's a pitbullbecause their jaws lock)


    We used to get people come to our dog classes that told us that and really believed it and other such nonsense.

    I think they had been watching too much Cesar Milan.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pezk View Post
      That was told to me by the same very respected dog trainer who told me about using the dogs hind legs. Even he didn't like dealing with pit bulls because they don 't bite and release like other dogs. That is what causes the damage. I suggest you consult the experts on those breeds.
      And I did see the hind leg approach in a whopper of a dogfight at a barn where I boarded my horse. The owners knew the same technique and used it effectively.
      I think the letters after her name qualify her as an expert. I will also testify that pitbull jaws do not lock. Many are very sweet dogs, the dog aggressive ones are rough. Working in the ER, I patch up a lot of small dos which have been wounded by pitbulls.

      Comment


      • Katarine, in that situation I'd first give AC the heads up, though I realize that in many rural areas, AC can't do much but you can at least cover your butt first.

        Then, I'd be ready with a paintball gun and a rifle--not a shot gun. I'd try the paintball first to drive them off, but I'd be ready with the rifle. The problem w/ a shotgun is that you'd likely hit a lot of your own critters in the mess.

        PEZK--your understanding and your friend's understanding of breaking up a dog fight is just so...out there...that I really don't have words. I don't care if you have 100 years' experience, it's a stupid thing and you shouldn't be telling people to do it. You can go that route if you wish, but if you think it through, where are your hands and face if you do that? Right in the path of teeth. You don't have to be an expert in animal psychology or physiology to work THAT out. Grab your nice dog's legs some night and see what comes around. I'll bet you money that it's their face. And while YOUR dog might not bite at that moment, a dog in a fight probably will. It's just plain stupid dangerous.
        A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

        Might be a reason, never an excuse...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by pezk View Post
          No, I'm not. You just don't agree with me. There isn't ' any dialogue with most Gun owners either.
          quoting this, just in case she puts the boxwine away....
          Originally posted by BigMama1
          Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
          GNU Terry Prachett

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Rallycairn View Post
            Am I understanding some of you correctly that you would consider shooting a loose dog that came on your property even if it weren't threatening anything? I don't want to misunderstand or extrapolate, but a few statements have implied that -- someone upthread did mention feeling comfortable shooting a dog if it got in his fenced yard, I think? ??
            Absolutely NOT! We don't have a lot of wandering loose dogs here, but we've had a few just passing through. I can tell by the way the horses react whether it's anything to worry about or not, as they're not easily excited about strange dogs. The ones that have been shot (or captured as was the case with a few of them) have been actively harassing the horses or waterfowl. And of course, in order to take a shot it must be safe- that is knowing where that bullet is going to go and making damn sure it won't hit an unintended target. The safety thing is why one of our asshat neighbor's dogs is still alive- it's not safe to shoot towards the road...

            As for hawks and the like that occasionally take a domestic bird, well, that's just life. They gotta eat too, no sense in getting mad about it- they're not killing for sport.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
              quoting this, just in case she puts the boxwine away....
              That doesn't work any more.
              Seems that if something is edited, the quoted posts are also edited right along, so they go poof also.

              What I do to keep something quoted is to copy and paste it and we will see if it goes poof, if someone deletes it.


              ---" Originally Posted by pezk
              No, I'm not. You just don't agree with me. There isn't ' any dialogue with most Gun owners either."---

              Comment


              • Kinda amusing story...

                DH caught an aggressive dog chasing my little show mare in her small turnout. We had seen this dog before and it was aggressive towards horses. He went outside with the gun and the dog took off. So DH goes dog hunting, walking the property with his gun. Crazy neighbor must have seen what happened, saw DH walking around with rifle and called the law. DH is just getting back to the barn when he sees police car coming down the driveway. DH sets gun in the truck and walks out to greet the Officer. Officer asks "Why are you walking around with a gun?" DH says, "Because I can" and told the Officer the story. DH tells Officer the rifle is in the front of the truck if he wants to see it. Officer declines, but does walk with DH to where my mare is to see if there's any damage. Fortunately the mare was unharmed. Takes description of said dog and tells DH that he'll shoot the dog if he sees it and tells DH to "Have a nice day".

                Comment


                • BOX wine? For shame!

                  Anyway, I hope most of you all know I was kidding about the taser on the kids thing. The paintball gun? Not so much.

                  If I saw a Yeti/BigFoot/Squatch? Well, I'd probably invite him (they're all HIM right?) in for coffee and a chat. Probably wouldn't shoot.
                  A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                  Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    That doesn't work any more.
                    Seems that if something is edited, the quoted posts are also edited right along, so they go poof also.

                    What I do to keep something quoted is to copy and paste it and we will see if it goes poof, if someone deletes it.


                    ---" Originally Posted by pezk
                    No, I'm not. You just don't agree with me. There isn't ' any dialogue with most Gun owners either."---
                    "Originally Posted by pezk No, I'm not. You just don't agree with me. There isn't ' any dialogue with most Gun owners either."

                    Like this?
                    Originally posted by BigMama1
                    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                    GNU Terry Prachett

                    Comment


                    • I cannot believe how stupid this thread has gotten. FWIW, I grew up in farming country, in CANADA, and it was well known and accepted that dogs harassinglivestock would be shot. Lots of dogs wandered, few were shot, perhaps farmers can assess risk quite well. But if a dog isn't discouraged by an irate shout and shots fired, I'm not sure that I should put myself at risk to prevent injury to an overexcited canine.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Lin View Post
                        I cannot believe how stupid this thread has gotten.
                        We've missed a few keys items for a proper trainwreck -- for example, no one has said "well bless your heart" yet - but we're getting there.
                        *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by katarine View Post
                          FWIW, we had a chow/lab/husky/Lord knows what mix- he was so furry, hot wire was a joke. He'd go through/over it and with all that massive coat he'd never show any sign he was shocked by it. You need a dog thin coated enough to even notice he was popped-and guess what- he's through it before he gets popped and he just zooms INTO your field even faster. My English Setter is afraid of one particular fence that's popped him before- but he got IN when he got popped- it didn't stop him. They don't stop and sniff the fence, they duck under, get popped, and just come on in, that much faster.
                          Good info, I would have never thought to consider that a long haired dog may not be affected by hot tape.
                          *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05

                          Comment


                          • Oh, I can bless someone's heart in the Southern way if that will move things along.
                            A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                            Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                              quoting this, just in case she puts the boxwine away....
                              HEYNOW, leave the boxwine out of this!
                              “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BuddyRoo View Post
                                Beyond yelling or shooting above the animal, what other solutions do you recommend?

                                Your solution about pulling at hind legs in the case of a dog fight is downright dangerous info and you should stop putting that out there. That's a quick way to put someone's FACE right into the fight. And when you're alone with a dog attacking your dog, you don't put your hands or face in the mix. Maybe a trained fighting dog responds well to that but generally, it's a poor idea. I worked in a clinic for 10 years and I'd NEVER instruct someone to just pull at hind legs in that situation. It's DANGEROUS.

                                My dog was being attacked by two PB's in the scenario I mentioned before. Neighbor dogs that I likes. They just flipped out. But it was not safe.
                                I just want to say that while your fight was different because you had two pit bulls attacking your dog, in the case of a single dog attack on a nearly equal size or bigger dog, the pull the hind legs method can be effective.

                                I broke up a pit bull fight myself this way. One dog was intent on killing the other dog. The barn owner and her husband were screaming, kicking, and BEATING the aggressor with a heavy duty METAL rake. Nothing even registered with that dog. I ran up, screamed at them to stop, grabbed the dog by the hind legs and wheel barreled it backwards. As the dog goes in to increase it's grip on the other dog, your backwards movement causes it to lose the grip altogether.

                                The aggressor was still fixated on the other pit who was pulled out of harm's way by the barn owners. I never got bit and I don't think it even registered with the dog how the fight ended. But at least I saved both dogs (at least in the immediate - the older dog being attacked never fully recovered despite vet care and died a few weeks later. He was very old so I am sure that didn't help). These dogs lived together for years with no problems, but a change to their lifestyle put them under stress and led to a fight to the death it would seem. I sure didn't want to see either dog hurt and didn't want the one dog to be beat to death by a rake. It was a very sad and scary experience but it does work. I had witnessed the method before and that is how I knew what to do.

                                That said, though I didn't know the dogs well at all, my understanding was that they were not aggressive to humans. If I hadn't seen the maneuver done successfully before and if I didn't know if the dogs were aggressive to humans, I may not have attempted it.
                                Last edited by kelliope; Jan. 17, 2013, 03:01 AM.
                                Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride,
                                friendship without envy or beauty without vanity?
                                Ode to the Horse. ~ Ronald Duncan

                                Comment


                                • I've had dogs all my life. Been to obedience school as well, including a year of post obedience school for advanced training. And have broken up dog fights, but not with pits. My family once had a Brittany. If you've ever had one, you know they can be mean. Britany's have something like springer rage. Totally unlike Llewellyn Setters and australian shepherds, which were our usual dog breeds.

                                  When I was growing up, I used to blame people who accidentally hit dogs or cats on the road. Then I caught on that it was the owners' fault for letting their dogs or cats run free, not the fault of people who don't slow down for loose pets.

                                  It's the owner's fault in this case. I don't own bunnies, but we once had tenants whose pet bunny was taken out of his pen by a dog and killed.

                                  I don't like it that people shoot dogs in situations like this one. But since they'd be prosecuted for shooting the at-fault dog owners, it's the only way to stop it. People won't keep their dogs in yards because, as they've told me, they deserve to "run free." (The analogy being that dogs are like wolves who run free. Uh wolves in congested cities would also be hit and killed by cars.) And people don't want their own dogs defecating in their yards, but in the yards of others. Too lazy to walk their dogs and too lazy to clean their yards equals dead dog.

                                  Blame the owners, not the shooters for this death.
                                  Last edited by cloudyandcallie; Jan. 17, 2013, 03:09 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • Having shown my own and other people's chow chows for years, and having lived with an adolescent litter of wolf-GSD hybrids, I feel I can speak to how to break up a dog fight.

                                    Grab as close to the head as you can, and get you a good grip (pit bulls have nothing on me) Really sink your fingers into the back of the neck and don't let go. If you can control the head, they can't bite you. If the dog is short enough (doG knew what he was doing when he made chows fairly small ), straddle the back of the dog. But only if the dog is short - tall dogs can knock you off your feet and then you're toast.

                                    The other dog in the fight, of course, can and will bite you. So you need two people.

                                    And if you're not willing to get bitten, you should just say "May the best man win," stay out of the way, and get out your credit card to pay the vet bills afterward.

                                    Oh, and Resolve carpet cleaner is the best for getting blood out of carpets and upholstery.

                                    ETA: But if you grab the back legs, 9 times out of 10 that sumbeast will turn around and nail you!
                                    I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                                    Comment


                                    • PEZK is like a seagull - fly in here, crap all over, then fly away.

                                      And to attrack a Bigfoot, you have to make that ridiculous call that they do on the Bigfoot reality show. (And if you think Bigfoot is answering you, he's not - that's your neighbor a mile away calling Bigfoot to HIS backyard).

                                      Carry on

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Roxyllsk View Post
                                        PEZK is like a seagull - fly in here, crap all over, then fly away.

                                        And to attrack a Bigfoot, you have to make that ridiculous call that they do on the Bigfoot reality show. (And if you think Bigfoot is answering you, he's not - that's your neighbor a mile away calling Bigfoot to HIS backyard).

                                        Carry on
                                        But what is the accepted form of protection if Bigfoot goes after your livestock? From the show, they're heck on deer!
                                        *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by shiningwizard255 View Post
                                          But what is the accepted form of protection if Bigfoot goes after your livestock? From the show, they're heck on deer!
                                          You throw some beef jerky at him...maybe a beer? That should take care of it!
                                          Originally posted by BigMama1
                                          Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                          GNU Terry Prachett

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