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Alright...let's combine all the "stop loose poops" stuff here.

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  • #21
    another anti-diarrheal to consider running by your vet (because it isn't really an anti-diarrhea med at all, but it is very effective) is cholestyramine (Questran). I know it's been used safely in dogs in other cases (hyperlipidemia and I've heard of it being used for recalcitrant diarrhea before as well) but I don't think it's all that common. I was prescribed it for my IBS after nothing else seemed to work until my diet changes could get everything under control.


    • #22
      While yes, it can take weeks to know if it's a food issue, the Z/D might not be the "cure all".. I mean, have you looked at the ingredients?

      Starch, Hydrolyzed Chicken Liver, Soybean Oil (preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), Hydrolyzed Chicken, Powdered Cellulose, Lactic Acid, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Glyceryl Monostearate, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), DL-Methionine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract, Beta-Carotene.

      That's a lot of.. crap. And if he's sensitive to something in there, then boom, not going to work. Plus, IMO (and granted, I'm not a vet), when it's a loose stool issue (vs. an itchy skin, etc. one), a food switch should do the trick pretty quickly if it IS something in the food they're sensitive to. Ex. When my oldest dog had a bad reaction to one kibble formula, I switched him to a different one and his stools were better within a few days.

      I'll stick to my "switch to raw" theory

      Slippery Elm is great for loose stools, FYI. I always keep some handy, it can be a miracle worker!


      • #23
        The Honest Kitchen has a supplement called "Perfect Form".
        I have used it with great success for a dog and another time for a cat. Go to their site and read the reviews and see if it is something you might like to try. A lot of the responders mention it as being the only product that helped in the case of their dog's IBS, and yes, I know IBS and IBD are not the same thing,
        but some similar issues. It might be worth a try.

        They of course sell it, and chewey.com sells it also.

        I will be jingling for you that you find something to help your guy and that you won't have to battle this for much longer.


        • Original Poster

          Yeah, I'm not super hip on the Z/D--especially given the cost. It's about 35/week to feed this. And I still am not at all convinced that it's a food allergy anyway.

          If I had to give my (non veterinary) hypothesis, I'd say that he has IBD or lymphoma that we've just not identified yet.

          He's never had any other allergy type symptoms--ears, skin, nothing--not ever.

          But he HAS had three major GI surgeries, 2 in 8 mos.

          THAT is why I'm so nervous about raw and giving bones. The perforation of the bowel last Christmas was caused by a small mammal vertebrae he must've picked up in the back yard. Probably squirrel. I'm really really nervous about giving any bones whatsoever.

          I still need to do the ACTH before trying pred. I had planned to do it this week, but I didn't hear back in time to get it scheduled.

          Hopefully, the immodium will help til I can get him in next week for the ACTH. If we're not doing remarkably better and the ACTH comes back normal, then I think we're going to try a round of steroids w/o changing any other variables. If that helps, we're probably more onto the IBD or lymphoma thing. At that point, I may go towards the raw diet. I just don't want to change multiple variables at the same time.

          Unless multiple variables include which is best? Rug doctor or Bissell. LOL
          A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

          Might be a reason, never an excuse...


          • #25
            If you are nervous about bones, try Honest Kitchen. Or, find thee a butcher and ask them to fine grind some meats for you.

            My old girl had problems with her bowels very similar to what you are describing and switching to a raw diet cleared everything up. I've been able to add a few kibbles back into her diet but majority is still raw with added probios.
            Riding the winds of change

            Heeling NRG Aussies
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            • #26
              BuddyRoo-Have you seen this at Rood & Riddle
              The product is Diagel for dogs if I didn't get the whole page right.


              • #27
                PS BuddyRoo, All this started after major surgery,yes? Could they have left some thing? Missed something? Or contaminated his gut some how? Can they do a colonoscopy on a dog?


                • #28
                  I didnt want to say anything about the Z/D either, because its just so easy for any of us to say, change food. I have an older sheltie that I was dealing with loose poops for years. I would never have even considered the Z/D, looks like bagged crap to me. What finally helped him was switching to Wellness Senior. I dont want to sound like a commercial, but he was on all the premium kibble I could find, and this one finally did the trick with him. Im sure thats too simplistic for your issue, but I did just want a chance to mention that Z/D would never be the answer to me. I hope you can make your baby better, for your sake as well as his.


                  • #29
                    I have a cat who has a very sensitive tummy. She's had 2 bouts of "something" that caused her to leave what DH and I lovingly refer to as little "butt drips" all over and also a pretty raw bum. The rescue we got her from had whatever it was run rampant through the cattery and it took a few weeks to show up. The only thing that works is Azithromicine. With the 2nd round, I could not remember the antibiotics name just that it started with an "A" and was cherry flavored... went through months of "stinky butt"! Multiple vet visits, antibiotics, probiotics, wormers with no change until I took her to a cat specialist who knew exactly what I was talking about.

                    Also switched her to a higher fiber food to help things "stick together." The specialist recommended hairball foods, but I found that a senior food that she'll eat and leaves her poop solid.

                    Oh and she gets a little bit of plain yogurt daily, since DH and I mix our own. Been "stinky butt" free for 18 months now!


                    • #30
                      I have been away since Saturday. My Pom started diarrhea on Monday or Tuesday and hasn't stopped since. My petsitter who is also one of my best friends has done her best to keep up with the mess but I know I have to clean the carpets when I get home. She is taking my dog to the vet at 5 so hopefully we will get an idea what is going on and how to fix it then.
                      McDowell Racing Stables

                      Home Away From Home


                      • Original Poster

                        Laurierace, I have had really good luck with the Endosorb the last few days (see my other thread).

                        I hear it's been a bad year for Giardia in this area (yours included). Also Lymes.

                        Hope you get some answers tonight!
                        A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                        Might be a reason, never an excuse...


                        • #32
                          Vet thinks she misses her Mommy! She gave her metronidazole and diasorb just in case and my petsitter had to cook her dinner.
                          McDowell Racing Stables

                          Home Away From Home


                          • #33
                            I feel your pain!! As a puppy, my dog went through MONTHS (and hundreds of $$ in vet bills) for diarrhea. It was awful and annoying to get up 5 times a night so he could go out (or find a bunch of piles in the house or his cage). The vet, who was not my normal vet, kept misdiagnosing him for parasites - he tested negative for everything but they kept thinking it was Giardia. He went through multiple rounds of metronidazole and panacur and probios. He would do ok while on the meds and on a bland diet of rice/chicken or rice/beef...but as soon as he was off the metronidazole (which I was told also has anti-diarrheal properties which could have been all it was doing during that time).

                            I finally took him back to my normal vet - they said 'food allergies, sorry it's going to suck but you're just going to have to find a food that works"....I tried 1 more food before I decided to home cook the bland diet for a month. Then started him on Nature's Variety Instinct....and viola I have not had problems since. I tried multiple high end foods and low end foods. Nothing worked, except the super expensive Instinct...but I don't dare change it because I DO NOT want that again!!!

                            Any chance your dog has the same??? Does he do OK on a bland diet of rice and chicken or even just rice?


                            • #34
                              Please buddy, I beg you not to feed raw to your dog. I AM NOT AGAINST RAW FOOD DIETS but I am very much against them for dogs who have compromised GI tracts.

                              The bacteria from Raw food is very easily digested in the gut, and poses very little threat to a dog/cat like it can in humans. Lots of benefits to raw diets forsure.

                              However, in a compromised GI tract, any loss of layering in the Gi tract can cause the absorption to go haywire. These bacteria can sit and fester in areas, and even translocate to the abdomen - causing a septic abdomen - organ failure and potential death. I have seen it happen on various occasions. Its generally not the bones of the raw food which bring patients into the ICU, its bacterial translocation.

                              If you want to go simple, homecook for him. But I agree with you that because this all started BEFORE the Z/D, you likely arent dealing with food allergies. If he is doing well currently, I wouldnt switch anything until you are at least a month into normal poops.

                              Whats next on your list, ACTH? Have the vets ever gotten back to you regarding pred (since that will help with both IBD and lymphoma)?


                              • Original Poster


                                I am not comfortable feeding raw at this time. I think there are definitely merits to the diet (when done correctly), but given the anastamosis surgeries, the other issues and such, I just don't feel comfortable going there right now.

                                We are off of Z/D right now and back to the California Naturals smelt/potato. Still all good. Ran out of Z/D and both clinics I get it from were closed for the holiday so that was the only option.

                                We're still fine on the endosorb.

                                Yes, ACTH is next. Going to do it this week I hope. They require that it be done no later than Thursday and are closed til Wed. But they have the necessary stuff on hand so if I can ever get through to them via phone, we'll probably do the test on Wed.

                                The holidays have kind of messed up the schedule.
                                A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                                Might be a reason, never an excuse...


                                • #36
                                  If you do ever want to consider raw, both Stella & Chewy's and Nature's Variety use a high pressure process that destroys bacterial cell walls without cooking the food. There is bone but it's all blended together/mashed up. It's not piece of bone. So both of those brands are something to consider. They're probably safer in terms of bacteria then bagged dog food. And you don't have the bone issue to worry about. The one draw back is that they are expensive.