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Update on the GI issue dog...got the test results back.

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  • #21
    What are you feeding your dog??

    I had problems with explosive stools with my bitch for a few months, very similar to what you're describing. We cleared it up with food changes and a few other things. Took time to work it out and I am so glad it's over!!
    Riding the winds of change

    Heeling NRG Aussies
    Like us on facebook!

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    • Original Poster

      #22
      Right now? Z/D (food), Tylan abx, metronidazole, and kaopectate.

      I don't believe for two seconds that this is a food allergy though. I'm just playing along for lack of something better to do.

      It's not working and we're all just as miserable as we were 3 mos and 5 thousand dollars ago.

      It's awesome.
      A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

      Might be a reason, never an excuse...

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by IFG View Post
        I just saw this. Ask your vet about Addison's disease. It is often called the great pretender. Our dog presented with waxing and waning symptoms, including lack of appetite and diarrhea.

        The ACTH test is definitive. If the dog has been on steroids, it can alter the results. You can get more information here:

        http://www.addisondogs.com/

        There is a yahoo list that is wonderful with moderators that are very well informed.

        You can also ask questions on the facebook page for the group:

        https://www.facebook.com/groups/2347518387/

        You can also PM me with questions. If it is Addison's, it is very treatable.

        IFG, Addisons was one thing we discussed. It's a 300 something test and I elected not to do it initially because he has zero symptoms that really match up.
        But it's on the list. We have not done any steroids so as not to mess up the ACTH if we choose to do it. I'm still waiting on MSU for a thought.
        A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

        Might be a reason, never an excuse...

        Comment


        • #24
          Have you thought to add a probiotic to his feed? All the meds could have killed off the good bacteria leaving the bad guys to continue to frolic. Almost sounds
          like C. Diff in humans.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by BuddyRoo View Post
            IFG, Addisons was one thing we discussed. It's a 300 something test and I elected not to do it initially because he has zero symptoms that really match up.
            But it's on the list. We have not done any steroids so as not to mess up the ACTH if we choose to do it. I'm still waiting on MSU for a thought.
            I completely understand. We elected not to do the ACTH challenge in Nov when my dog was first ill. Wish, in hindsight that we had done it then, because he nearly crashed in late April when he was finally diagnosed. Of course, sometimes the test isn't positive the first time because the adrenal glands are failing and may be functioning intermittently. This can yield a positive test early in the diagnosis. Best of luck. If you want any information, feel free to ask. The good thing about Addison's is once they are diagnosed, you have a happy, healthy, dog that can do anything. My sickly young dog is back doing agility and loving it .

            Comment


            • #26
              Oh, I will add, that even now, my dog does best when he is on the Acana Ranchlands, Probios, and Prozyme. That combination keeps his tummy happy.

              Comment


              • #27
                I'm not familiar with that food. What is Z/D?
                Riding the winds of change

                Heeling NRG Aussies
                Like us on facebook!

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Rhyadawn View Post
                  I'm not familiar with that food. What is Z/D?
                  It's a magical dog food that you give to dogs with food allergies.
                  Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    z/d is a food made with hydrolyzed protein- they break the proteins down so it's non-allergenic. It's not a very healthy diet, but if your dog is really allergic to lots of things, it may be the only thing he can eat, so that's what you have to feed. It's best used as a short-term "test" for allergies- you feed it for 6 weeks and see if the dog's symptoms go away, in which case it's allergies, and you need to figure out what real foods the dog can tolerate (rather than feeding unhealthy z/d forever, you find a healthy limited ingredient diet the dog can tolerate).


                    Have you considered stopping all of the antibiotics and just giving him some time to heal and restore his gut bacteria? feed the z/d, feed probiotics, feed kaopectate, and nothing else for two or three weeks and see what happens?
                    I know from personal experience that just taking antibiotics can totally mess up your digestive tract, and if they can't find any signs of an infection, why continue to feed him antibiotics?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      Basque--he's been on probiotics for about 6 weeks now.

                      IFG--I'm just iffy on doing the ACTH because he so not typical but I know there can be atypical Addison's. I haven't heard back from EITHER vet since last Friday so am in a holding pattern and trying not to be a pest.

                      Rhyadawn--Z/D is just what Lex/Wendy mentioned. And it's bloody expensive.

                      Wendy, other than the metronidazole, he hasn't been on any abx in over a year now. I'm told by the veterinarians that I shouldn't even be worried about gut flora due to that but that it won't hurt, so I've continued with the probios.

                      They're giving the metronidazole (still) because he still has inflammation in the intestine upon manual exam.

                      None of it is helping FWIW. I mean, he's been eating well for the last 10-12 days but he still has loose stools. He doesn't seem bothered by it and he isn't having accidents in the house since I added the kaopectate. But I can't say that I feel like this is a "solution".

                      I'm not totally convinced that it's a food allergy given that he doesn't have any of other more common symptoms of food allergy. But who am I? I'm not a vet.

                      What I AM is a frustrated individual. I'm about ready to go rogue here. LOL

                      He's only been on the Z/D since last Tuesday so just 8 days. But you'd think (I'd think?) we'd have seen some improvement in that time, even if it were just slight.
                      A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                      Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Wendy, I lied. He did start the Tylan last Tuesday as well. So he's been on that for 8 days.

                        Sorry, I'm starting to forget things.
                        A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                        Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Bleh.. Z/D.. yummy. I'd be inclined to start a raw diet at this point, it'd be cheaper than the Z/D and it certainly can't hurt! But, up to you!
                          -Kady

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Diffuse-I think raw can be pretty great when it's done well. But after two anastamosis surgeries, one due to an (uncooked) bone puncturing his intestine and causing sepsis, I'm just not real cool with the bone thing.And to do it in a balanced way, I'm not sure I can really avoid changing variables right now. It's definitely something on the table, but it's a last resort kind of thing for me. I just don't want to go down that road if I don't have to because I think it takes a lot of research and dedication to do it well. I've only seen a handful of dogs do well on it--many more who had issues because their people didn't really know what they were doing. Money is an object too. Z/D may be pricey, but I doubt I can go raw and do it right spending any less. I dunno. I admittedly haven't looked into that as much as other things thus far. I kept having hope we'd find the silver bullet long before now.
                            A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                            Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              white fish is a novel protein that is not a common allergy, the starch is the Z/D could also have an effect on the runny poos. (keep them loose)

                              I personally was on pain meds for several months due to a broken leg and I know I messed up my gut flora because of all the meds. If your dog is missing 50cm of gut that could cause a problem with the balance. Perhaps some ezyemes ? added into the food will help. Small amounts of canned pumpkin (about a tablespoon) in one feeding will help tighten things up a bit. What about keifer?
                              www.facebook.com/doggonegoodgoodies
                              http://doggonebakedgoods.com/

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                My German Shepherd Diagnosed With IBD, Too

                                It took almost two years to reach the IBD diagnoses. He was a picky eater and had almost constant diarrhea. It was hard to keep weight on him.

                                I tried the expensive prescription foods and I went grain free, paying close to $80 for a 22 lb. bag, which he refused to eat half the time anyway. It was very frustrating. Nothing we did seemed to work and I was running up huge vet bills dealing with it. For a while he would end up at the animal E.R. because he would present like he had an obstruction, but x-rays showed nothing.

                                I had always heard that the premium foods were the way to go. The idea being that the expensive, premium foods were absolutely necessary if your dog had any issues at all. You were looked down on if you weren't feeding the "in foods".

                                A friend that breeds and shows her dogs told me that she fed Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach formula and she was surprised at how well it worked. Not only did her dog consistently eat the food, but the diarrhea ended, the vomiting ended and the dog was gaining weight. I poo-pooed her, but then tried the food myself and found she was right.

                                It is not the most expensive food. It is not a fancy brand. But it worked. Since then I have spoken with other owners who have had the same results.

                                Here is a link:
                                http://www.proplan.com/dry-dog-food/...a/default.aspx

                                It really was amazing to see my dog eat, not vomit or crap it out within minutes and gain weight.
                                Sheilah

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Munching, not familiar with keifer?

                                  His GI panel does not indicate that there is an enzyme issue, that was one thing we wanted to rule out. It also doesn't indicate short bowel disease due to the removal. His issues began before surgery #2, so while he was on some pain meds post op, it was very brief and I don't think that's it. But who knows.

                                  We've done pumpkin, special yogurt, the probiotics...it FEELS like we've tried everything but you all have brought up good ideas in the past so I'm keeping my eyes and ears open.

                                  I am really hoping Dr. from MSU will get back with me soon. He said he'd call Sat but I haven't heard from him yet. I know he's super busy, so just crossing my fingers.

                                  Thank you all for chiming in with your ideas. I'm keeping a list. I just don't want to keep changing variables without keeping my doc in the loop.
                                  A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                                  Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Sheila, thanks! We were posting at the same time. I do have stuff in to the DR. at TX A&M who is doing studies on IBD. That was why we added the Tylan to the mix last week.

                                    Right now, dog is eating well and has been for 10-12 days. Really never had vomiting as an issue. (maybe vomited twice in this whole 3+ mo time and it was immediately post op). Just the loose stools persist.

                                    We are about 6-8 weeks post op now. Need to reference my calendar. But we're in exactly the same place as we were then minus the anorexia. He definitely loves his new foods. And you're right, they are PRICEY. The 8lb bag of Z/D was more than I paid for a 35lb bag of high end stuff! That lasts about a week is all.

                                    How did you finally get the diagnosis? We've even had biopsies of the intestine done. There really isn't anything throwing up red flags here! That's the crazy thing.
                                    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                                    Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by BuddyRoo View Post
                                      Diffuse-I think raw can be pretty great when it's done well. But after two anastamosis surgeries, one due to an (uncooked) bone puncturing his intestine and causing sepsis, I'm just not real cool with the bone thing.And to do it in a balanced way, I'm not sure I can really avoid changing variables right now. It's definitely something on the table, but it's a last resort kind of thing for me. I just don't want to go down that road if I don't have to because I think it takes a lot of research and dedication to do it well. I've only seen a handful of dogs do well on it--many more who had issues because their people didn't really know what they were doing. Money is an object too. Z/D may be pricey, but I doubt I can go raw and do it right spending any less. I dunno. I admittedly haven't looked into that as much as other things thus far. I kept having hope we'd find the silver bullet long before now.
                                      You can always get it ground if you're worried about the bones.

                                      It does take some research, but it's really not nearly as difficult as some make it out to be. I was at my wits end with my allergy prone, sensitive stomach girl who lived on Metronidazole, so I finally made the switch.. never looked back. I pretty much followed this guide: http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/

                                      Raw has been cheaper for me than kibble ever was.. I pretty much feed mine for free during the winter months because I get venison from hunters. I have an ad on Craigslist in the items wanted section and usually get 50-100+ lbs. per response from guys that are cleaning out their freezers.

                                      You have My Pet Carnivore near you, I know they deliver in a few places in MI: http://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index....102&Itemid=129

                                      I get most of my dogs food from the grocery store.. chicken quarters, turkey necks, pork (I usually get the shoulders or pork butts and cut the meat off the bone), etc. Organs are the only thing I get from a raw food dealer; they're in NJ and ship them to me.
                                      -Kady

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Thank you Diffuse! I will look into that. I'm actually not in MI anymore. I moved to VA shortly after my dog's surgery...just before Thanksgiving. So I'm in NoVa now.

                                        Have you had any issues with pancreatitis? My guy had issues a few years ago on multiple occasions but I've kept him on a pretty strict diet since so nothing lately. Was that a concern when you switched to raw?
                                        A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                                        Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Kefir (sorry I spelled in wrong in above post) is a cultured diary drink. Its designed for humans. You can get goat or cow Kefir. Its like a cross between yogurt and milk but without the lactose. Its full of probiotics and its considered live. There are 10 active cultures in it.


                                          It helps your immune system and aids in balancing digestive health.

                                          I am lactose intolerant and I know that dogs should not have dairy either, but I do not have an issue digesting kefir.

                                          I love the strawberry flavor there is a plain one too . You can get it at all health food stores and most regular places. I like the Lifeway brand.

                                          www.kefir.com/proboost


                                          ETA: this is my friend's store in Middleburg, which I am assuming is not too far from you if you are in NoVa now. Click on pet foods. its an option once you figure things out.

                                          http://www.homefarmstore.com/HomeFarmStore/HFHome.html
                                          Last edited by MunchingonHay; Dec. 12, 2012, 06:41 PM. Reason: added home farm store info
                                          www.facebook.com/doggonegoodgoodies
                                          http://doggonebakedgoods.com/

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