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How much can you tell about a puppy at 12 weeks?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    I don't know why you are saying you "disagree" when it seems like you and Bits agree. You have a little dog prone to being stupid and threatening towards other dogs (your words). Her behavior has changed very little over time. This is echoing what Bits said about being responsible for your dogs behavior and understanding that you are shaping innate temperament.
    Because she got worse as she got older. She never got better but she also did not stay the same.


    • #22
      Originally posted by cowboymom View Post
      Meh-I have five dogs and have had one changeover in the last year. I gave one dog to a different home b/c I thought she would do better with the small family and then I saved the neighbor's chi pup from going to a meth home. I have all stages, ages, sizes, and actually none of them are easy-one 2 year old male GP, an 8 year old work-bred Aussie, a 13 year old aussie/heeler/golden cross, and a 1.5 year old high strung BMC. I found a home for the 4 year old F BMC then ended up grabbing the baby chi/dach mix that was headed to a bad home. From 2 lbs to 120 lbs, mellow to freak.

      They have their issues and power struggles but they're nothing compared to my teenage children. A little consistancy and awareness and they're all fine, they mostly live with each other just fine, even the pup, and play together. They have had a few scuffles but no injuries and no grudges, just noise and usually over food when they aren't being fed in their zones.

      If I think back on all six of the dogs I've had recently-at 12 weeks I knew them all well. I got the GP at that exact age and he's the same dog at 120 lbs that he was at 10 lbs. The mutt was from the pound at the same age and just the same, sweet and unique. The Aussie-same sweet earnest dog all through. The older BMC, food obsessed and lazy the whole time. Younger BMC, freaky and high strung and a real talker, from day 1. The chi is only 9 weeks old but she's sweet and feisty and smart and I don't see that changing. We have definite pup situations here, having had several with these dogs, puppies are tolerated, spoiled and disciplined by the older dogs and they learn potty training and basic obedience from them as well. Win win.

      OP I don't know if you described a personality so much as a situation. My old dog used to run the roost; now she fosters and aligns herself with the pups. You know if your older dog will eventually be ok with being the older slower dog while the pup takes front seat on the activity front. From what you described I wouldn't hesitate, to be honest.
      Looks like you were also lucky, as we were, as so many are, to have many dogs over years and not have to sworn enemies.

      Don't dismiss with "they will learn to get along", it doesn't work like that if two really don't get along.

      I know right now of two such homes, with dog trainers, that are managing two such female dogs, working to keep them apart unless they are right there and training with them.
      Both are agility competition dogs, one an ACD, the other two enemies are a BC and a rat terrier, terrific agility dogs, go together to compete, do great, but have to be kept from getting into each other.
      The first time in years and dogs of ownership for that person.

      If two dogs can't get along at all and are left alone, they will have serious fights and, ask an vet, that has to put the dogs together again after the fights, if it is not a life and death situation.

      It can happen to anyone, anytime and it is good that the OP is considering that possibility.


      • Original Poster

        For 20 years of my life we exclusively had all females (Dobes, Rotties and various other mixed breeds) and NEVER had a problem. Like I said, though, that was back in the day where their butts got worn out at the barn and they were too tired to mess around in the house.

        FWIW, both dogs are PB mixes and that plays a part in my hesitation. Mine is part Basset and the pup is probably Beagle. Last foster was a 4 year old, female PB mix and they got along great. Still do since the new owners live nearby and we've been trading dog sitting this summer. My dog is fear aggressive with dogs she doesn't know but absolutely wonderful with all her "friends". She has been the best influence on this puppy and I've barely had to teach her anything myself.

        Thanks for all the stories. I should have more time before I need to make a decision (I'd like to get to 4 months at status quo) but if a good applicant comes along, I may need to move quickly. She has two brothers in foster right now and I'm hoping people looking for a puppy of her type, pursue them first. I've considered swapping her for one of the boys to avoid the female issue but we aren't really "looking" for a second dog so there's no point in displacing anyone for the slim possibility I'd like one of them as much.


        • #24
          We have two females and we got very lucky, with a little help with picking a second dog who was likely to be a "good bet".

          We have a nearly 15 year old, very bossy and short-tempered, female ACD mix. A year ago, we got a 12 week old rescue BC mix (also female). I picked her specifically because she came out of a hoarder's yard and had lived with 30 other dogs of varying sizes, genders and ages, including her mother, for those first 12 weeks. I was betting that being raised in that pack environment had endowed her with good "dog manners" and it had. She was, when we got her, and still is, very polite when dealing with other dogs...always "asks", using appropriate dog body language, to approach or play. We couldn't have taught that.

          Even as a puppy, the young dog did not try to jump all over ACD mix or get her to play, she knew, probably from experience with other dogs, that old dog wasn't interested. She made some mistakes here or there (walking too close to old dog, looking too interested in something that belonged to old dog)...when she was a puppy, old dog cut her quite a bit of slack. Not any more, young dog is now bigger than old dog and old dog is adamant about enforcing good behavior. She yells at young dog for running in the house, jumping on the furniture or playing too wildlly with a toy. Young dog quits when old dog gets angry. The only altercations we have is when old dog wants to take something from young dog, young dog used to just fork things over, but she's big enough now that she argues back, there are short scuffles with growling, but it never comes to injury or an all out fight...young dog is too chicken for that and old dog knows better than to really get into it with a much bigger and stronger dog. Young dog generally gets to keep her toy or bone if she sasses old dog back with enough vehemence.


          • Original Poster

            The adoption coordinator has been out of town for the last week but just said she has several applications for me to screen. My fingers are crossed they turn out to be dead ends.

            Guess I have to decide sooner rather than later.


            • #26
              Maybe I've been lucky, I don't really think so but that's subjective. I don't think I even thought to mention that out of all my crazy dog pack that the only male is the 2 year old un-neutered (until fall) Great Pyrenees! Lots of grounds for fighting around here but they're all good.

              I get most of my animals on gut instinct. We have a laid back sort of fun family home where the kids and I are home most of the time and we take the dogs with us anytime we can...I have a good eye for animal behavior so maybe my gut instinct is making things easy on us. Or I'm just lucky with all these animals that all get along so well.

              So my advice has to be to follow your gut. Farm the pup out for a couple days and see how the older dog reacts. See how you feel about the pup being gone. Test yourself...

              Good luck in your choice, I've been there and I know it's not easy.
              “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey


              • Original Poster

                It's a done deal. The best potential adopter decided she might not be ready for 3 dogs and Pup gets more ingrained in our life each day. Everyone that knows me and current dog says to go for it because they know I wouldn't be considering this if it didn't seem very likely to work out.

                I'm going to contact a PB specific rescue or breeder for advice on how best to manage the girls and enroll her in puppy classes for extra socialization.


                • Original Poster

                  Puppy just turned 5 months and has been a dream. Easiest, most laid back dog I've ever had. No regrets about keeping her.

                  The two girls get along fine but aren't attached at the hip so much they are more interested in each other than us. I'm not seeing any clear indication of who's in charge and Puppy doesn't seem to care. If things don't go her way, she moves on to something else.


                  • #29
                    So bizarre to me that no one has talked about the pup's breed, resident dog's breed, etc....let alone strain within the breed. All may have important effects, of course, so can rearing, as well as sexual status, I.e., neutered, if so, what age, intact, etc...

                    I have had multiple dogs of various breed, age, sexual status, etc., for over forty years, and these factors are important. But it is also important to take into consideration how the animals are reared and kept.

                    Size is one of the least important attributes of harmony in a group, in my experience.

                    I have had tiny dogs that were despotic rulers in a group, harmonious groups made up of extremely different sizes, and horrible groups of similar sizes.

                    Various peer reviewed scientific articles have found that the so-called puppy temperament tests are not as predictive of adult behavior as they claim. There are so many factors that affect adult behavior that are not apparent in young puppies. I cannot tell you how many cases I know of where behavior has changed greatly from puppyhood to adulthood.

                    So what breeds and sexual status are these two individuals?

                    Agree that if it seems to be working out, fine.....deal with the situation as it develops. It is hard to say whether there will be a problem that you cannot resolve in the future, without having a little more information.


                    • #30
                      Great point


                      • #31
                        OK, just read your other thread, so your adult bitch is a presumably spayed, Basset/pit bull/Jack Russell mix that you are having problems with when meeting other dogs? What, do you know or have any idea of, is the puppy?

                        I can understand a little more why you might be concerned, from how you have described things..


                        • Original Poster

                          I did mention the breeds above. Both are Pit mixes, although my other dog is more Basset-y. Puppy could be all Pit but she's the tall and lean type.

                          Other dog does have issues with dogs she doesn't know but none after a proper introduction. The worst thing she's done so far is curl a lip when Puppy tries to take something (valuable) from her but Puppy respects that and goes back to her own toy. I've had the original dog for a year now and fostered 6-8 others during that time with no issues. All adult females and one male puppy. Aside from her issue with strange dogs, she is outgoing, friendly and well adjusted. Probably spent the first 2 years of her life chained in a back yard and had no real life experiences until she came here. Puppy has only had good experiences on top of a great temperament.

                          Not to say that it will always be this harmonious but things have gone as well, or better than I expected so far.


                          • Original Poster

                            To show how they generally relate to each other, here is a video when Pup was about 3 months old. She’s a lot less annoying now, and much bigger, but they still snuggle for naps. Or sleep apart if that’s the way it works out.

                            Play time is usually “catch me if you can” with a few sneak attacks but neither dog likes full on wrestling. Well, Puppy seems to enjoy it with her boyfriend down the street but understands when other dogs don’t.



                            • #34
                              I'm glad it's working out.

                              I have three bitches and two dogs, but only one of the bitches is a terrier - the other two are border collies. I find the little terrier bitch to be far and away the snarkiest (and, thank doG, smallest!) of the bunch, but then, I'm not a terrier person.

                              Mostly all mine get along fine, though. When the terrierist gets her snark face on, the others just walk off as if to say, well, someone needs a time-out.
                              I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show