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ugh how to discourage puppy mill purchase

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  • #21
    Vet tech & horse owner mail-order puppy

    A coworker at the specialty practice decided to get a Min Pin. She would surf online during slow overnight/ER hours then show me pics of cute puppies.

    "We ship nationwide" "USDA licensed" "Puppies available now" "New litters arriving" with title-less, sorry-looking bitches running around dirt yards if they had pics of the parents at all. The puppies, of course, were posed cutely in coffee cups, baskets, or next to soda cans. Gag.

    I told her the sites she was looking at were all supplied by mills. She's a tech! Doesn't she know better? AND she's a horse owner- obviously not a COTHer as no COTHer would dare.

    She bought a 'teacup' online for a few grand off puppyfind or some such site. The practice owners and staff could only shake our heads .

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    • #22
      Yes I have been looking for a new puppy and my daughter keeps sending me links to those puppy mill clearinghouse sites. I cannot get her to understand that those cutely posed pictures are NOT EVEN THE PUPPIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE, they are just examples of the breed. She can't reconcile that with what I have told her about puppy mills and shown her on the "Animal Cops" shows. Ugh! Fortunately, I am the decision-maker here.

      Incidentally, I have decided to go with something quite unlike my late dog, since he was the best damned dog and simply irreplaceable.

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      • #23
        well, unfortunately, even if you convince her to "go rescue", any "mini labradoodle" she comes up with will be a puppy mill/BYOB product with all of the associated health problems so talking about the housebreaking issues and health problems won't be a deterrent, and she sounds so distraught she won't really care/believe you about how horribly the parents are treated.

        I'm not really sure why anyone would want a "mini labradoodle" instead of a minature poodle- they look and act very similar- but a well-bred minature poodle is one of the healthiest, longest-lived, easiest to train and live with dogs you can ever hope to find.

        Try dragging her to visit a shelter or local rescue and see if she "falls" for any of the available dogs.

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        • #24
          To me, a red flag in any ad or website is "Puppies always available!"

          Does any reputable breeder have "puppies always available"?

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          • #25
            A shocking number of people think that it's a crime to purchase a dog from a puppy mill -- but if you instead say you "rescued" it from the puppy mill, it is perfectly acceptable.

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            • #26
              I think it's crap when people "rescue" a dog from a puppy mill/petstore/etc by purchasing it. You are doing nothing but perpetuating the cycle.

              If someone gets involved with the police and helps shut down a puppy mill and then adopts one of the surrendered dogs then THAT is rescuing a puppy mill dog.

              Anything else just creates another spot for another female to be bred to produce another unhealthy, sick, poorly planned litter that someone else will "rescue" by purchasing a puppy.

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              • #27
                Other than stating the obvious I don't know of anyway to change someone's mind about that.
                My niece's dh had a dream that he had a bull mastiff named Lily and has been on a quest to get one for the last 10 months. He previously had an Am Bulldog who was put to sleep when she broke her leg getting off the couch last year (12 yr old). The dog will live indoors, only out to potty. They have a 9 yr old and almost yearling. He had a puppy lined up ( from internet) but it died. Mama dog had to have a c-section after pups got stuck in the birth canal. They then lost the others or some of the others to some virus/fungus..... I wasn't given much of the story. I think they are waiting for another litter. If what happened doesn't send up red flags to them I don't know what would.

                They are like many people who want a live stuffed animal. If that's what you want then at least get a small dog not something that will be larger than average. He is enamored with the bulldog look. Wanted an english bulldog the first time until convinced that their health problems were a concern. He liked english mastiffs too but choose the bull mastiff because "it's smaller and has less health problems". Oh, I suppose there is a difference but to be a house dog who is home alone at least 10 hrs a day, well I'm preaching to the choir.

                The only thing I ever got across to them was when she was pg the first time. I told her they needed to be very careful because a dog like that wouldn't get a second chance and at the time she was their "baby" so their son never got have anyone come play at his house until after she died. Dog was banned from coming out to the farm. I told my sister if she kept letting the dog come out here that she would kill one of Sis's precious fluffy dogs. Dog would grab and shake them. She also attacked Sis's 14yr old deaf/blind husky. Sis, normally very passive with her dogs, beat the bulldog off the husky with an oar. As a side benefit bulldog was very respectful and submissive to my sister when she visited her daughter's house.

                Good Luck trying to convince her it's not a good idea.

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                • #28
                  You can try to discourage puppy mill purchases.

                  But we all know they will simply breed more. The puppy millers will be encouraged by the sale, see I can make money on puppies.

                  I find people are desprete for a pet go to the puppy millers.

                  Puppy mill buyers feel they are saving the dog/cat. But really it makes them just breed more.

                  I have a friend here who wants a baby. A baby horse. So she is pretty much buying from a backyard horse breeder. The seller says: sire and dam on premise's. Why can't she save one from the auction? Oh no, she must have a young horse. She wants it just weaned, barely. They are too old if they are 6 months old, because they now have bad habits. She is a big follower of the finger wagging. Mutts are better she says. She has had all mutt horses and they were epic failures. Has three now wants more, and she doesn't ride but one or two times a month! When horse people get anxious, they go to craigs list. Shhh quiet. Oh no don't GO to the auction, somebody will see you, all horses there are crap, and SHAME on them for taking them to the auction. HA. Auction horses are 1 step away from places like Three Angels Ranch, in TN.

                  Try to discourage, give alternative suggestions, I have but the person is going to do what they want to do. They want it now. They want to purchase like it is from walmart. Now. Right this minute, quick. It will make me feel better fast, instantly.

                  puppy mills are the same to me as a hoarder. BYB same thing.
                  Sad.

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                  • #29
                    http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/23301353

                    labradoodle in NJ shelter with puppies, puppies appear to be mostly brown.

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                    • #30
                      Have her watch One Nation Under Dog, a documentary that HBO recently aired. They do a section on puppy mills, but also cover the heart-breaking reality of shelters across the country. It's pretty graphic at times.

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                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Thank you all - especially Wendy - I sent her that link. She is going to end up hating me. Ultimately, she'll do what she wants.....I just had to try. I need to get more involved in the anti puppy mill campaign....it's just such an uphill battle...when you can't even convince your family members.

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                        • #32
                          Mara-Yes, Puppies always available is a red flag for a real, quality breeder. Just because they sell papered animals doesn't mean they're not a puppy mill, and usually they have lied about the number of puppies that are in a litter so they can claim better breeding than the real parents. A study a while ago said that statistically the number of the new popular dog breed registrations (from 101 Dalmations, and Westminster winners) would go up by at least 10% or more. It certainly didn't mean that there were larger litters, but that the shady breeders were breeding anything to anything, and tacking the poorly bred dogs onto the better papered animals litters. They also were breeding females twice a year instead of once to maximize profits.
                          You can't fix stupid-Ron White

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                          • #33
                            http://rufflyspeaking.net/blog/i-consider-him-a-rescue/

                            you can print this and give it to her

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by ken View Post
                              Herein lies the problem....she is looking for a mini labradoodle. specifically brown with blue eyes.

                              The website directs you to the name & number of "breeders" almost all having Amish surnames. The website says "we don't support puppy mills" so she believes it. Makes me sick how our legislature does nothing to stop this. Even if I can convince her it is a puppy mill, then the question will be what will happen to the puppy if I don't take her....puppy mills are too easy - cheap prices, good availability,etc. Makes me sick
                              Or here's a thought, they may (or may not) be Amish and sell nice puppies. It has happened. My parents have a wonderful JRT from an Amish breeder.
                              Visit my Spoonflower shop

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                              • #35
                                ^ an exception. not the norm. Lancaster county is puppy mill capital.

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                                • #36
                                  "The Pennsylvania Bureau of Dog Law Enforcement lists 243 kennels in Lancaster County. Pennsylvania, 98% of them owned by Amish. Holmes County, Ohio, has 470 kennels -- more than any other county in the nation."

                                  http://www.citizensagainstpuppymills.org/pmamish.php

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                                  • #37
                                    ^ an exception. not the norm. Lancaster county is puppy mill capital.
                                    yeah, and remember this is a mini labradoodle we're talking about. There simply AREN'T any "good breeders" of such a creature.

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                                    • #38
                                      Some people buy on the emotional level, and your SIL sounds like on of them. Honestly, I would just take her over to the town or regional pound for a looksee, with no pressure to buy. We had to bail out my mother's dog from a regional pound some years back, after he took a long, illegal walk from her house over the town line. The number of purebred dogs in there was astounding! Many of them were just plain good dogs. If she is looking for a large breed dog, she may have a good amount to pick from, as not as many of those get adopted as do small and medium dogs. Our town emails a list each week of the available dogs at the town pound, with sizes, breed and ages listed. Perhaps hers does too. Just a thought.

                                      ETA: I just came off of Craigslist in the pets section, and there are a lot of dogs and cats needing homes up there, many with photos to look at. I got my cat for free from that list, and she's been great. Another good source is Pet Finder. Some folks have also left their dogs at kennels saying they will be on vacation, and never came back to claim them. A world of possibilities for her to sift through, many of them a lot cheaper than the road she is looking at going down.
                                      "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

                                      http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/

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                                      • #39
                                        Just found out that my Niece and her family are adopting an American Bulldog from rescue! Yeah! They are going to pick up a 2 yr old male. Hope he's less of dimwit than the one they just put to sleep. (also a rescue, they got to keep the other dog company). At least they got a rescue. so HURRAY!!

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                                        • #40
                                          Glad they went with a rescue. I hope they thought the decision through, researched the breed, and are willing to put the necessary training and time into their new boy so he never ends up back in a shelter.

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