• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Intact male acting inappropriately

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Intact male acting inappropriately

    This is the first time I've had an intact male past 6 months so I am in uncharted waters.

    Dexter just turned 9 months and from 14 weeks of age he has been heavily socialized with dogs, cats, horses, children, etc. He is a fun and out-going guy who loves everyone he meets.

    Right now he lives with fixed female (~ 70 lbs) and has never once thought about inappropriate behavior. She is sweet but very dominant and he definitely respects her.

    At the dog park he never bothers females and the only time he has tried any sort of humping has been with very submissive neutered males. This behavior only occurred for a week or two around 6 months and after being consistently corrected he completely stopped.

    The Problem:
    My respectful guy disappears whenever I go home to visit my parents. He is really dominant with my parent's female wheaten terrier despite being 1/3 her size. He climbs all over her, growls, drags her around by her neck, and body slams her. She is way too tolerant and either plays with him or ignores her antics. He also follows her incessantly and licks her backside. It is totally disgusting and unacceptable. I can verbally correct him but it stops the behavior for less than a minute. She really doesn't mind but I don't want this to become ingrained behavior.

    What can I do to nip this behavior in the bud? I am afraid that if I allow it with one female then he will think it is acceptable with other submissive females.

  • #2
    If you know he's going to behave that way, keep him on a leash by your side and correct him when he makes even a hint of that behavior towards her.

    Is there a particular reason he's not neutered? Is that female fixed?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Despite his young age he is doing very well in the conformation ring. He has potential to be competitive nationally so neutering him is definitely not something I am willing to consider.

      The female is a companion only dog and was fixed at 6 months (currently 7 years old).

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't think it's sex, but dominance. I agree with the leash idea, and bet that puts a crimp in his style. And you do have to control him before he runs into the wrong dog, tries this, and gets chewed on up and down like a cob of corn.
        You can't fix stupid-Ron White

        Comment


        • #5
          It does sound like dominance issue. In this case I'd keep him on leash or crated around that dog, since your in her territory. I wouldn't ever leave alone and unattended. On leash you should be able to see and correct him before it ever gets started. I would think if you handle it now with a good quick clear correction that it would be less likely to become an issue permenently.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
            He climbs all over her, growls, drags her around by her neck, and body slams her. She is way too tolerant and either plays with him or ignores her antics. He also follows her incessantly and licks her backside. It is totally disgusting and unacceptable.
            if you are ever going to breed him, keep in mind this is normal male dog behavior and you don't want to squash it totally.

            What can I do to nip this behavior in the bud? I am afraid that if I allow it with one female then he will think it is acceptable with other submissive females.
            in addition to keeping him on lead, you can also/or teach him a very solid recall. At the moment I've got one bitch coming into heat and Conner is very interested in her. He gets to work for some of his breakfast, where I call him away>give a few kibbles>send him back. This morning he refused to go back to her and stayed with me, so we did some sits, some downs and some stays. I found that very acceptable.

            Or, if that is not what you want, then you can also use a verbal and then walk him down. Say the cue word, and immediately walk between them, herding him away>do a sit/down/sit or some other simple chain of behaviors and leave him to try it again. Eventually he will quit bothering her.

            Comment


            • #7
              Leash him so you maintain control.

              Do you have to bring him over there when you visit? Can't you just keep him crated? When my in-laws come to visit and bring dogs their dogs stay in their kennels, and we rotate time in the fenced in back yard. Mainly, because I have kitties I dont' want slaughtered. It isn't the same thing, obviously, but my point is that since their dogs aren't kitty trustworthy, they get crated. I wouldn't expect your parents to crate their female, since she isn't the guest. Show dogs are crated all the time, so I would think he is comfortable crated?

              My friends all have intact males and if they come over with the dogs they stay crated. No dog issues and a lot less wear-and-tear on my house and yard.
              DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree with the leash/crate theory, and the rough play behavior sounds like he is trying to be dominant over her. But I also wonder if there isn't something about that particular bitch that is *off* and she smells different. Especially considering he already lives with a spayed female.

                One of my dogs had a huge *crush* on an elderly male dog once...it was so odd that he would run away from me to find him at the town golf course where many dog owners would walk their dogs in the winter. I mentioned it to my vet, he said that sometimes particular illnesses can give off weird smells and some dogs confuse them with other smells - like females in season. Is your parents terrier old? I think my vet suggested it might be kidney related.

                But, no matter what, I would agree that you shouldn't allow it. Redirection and/or separating is probably the best idea.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                  I agree with the leash/crate theory, and the rough play behavior sounds like he is trying to be dominant over her. But I also wonder if there isn't something about that particular bitch that is *off* and she smells different. Especially considering he already lives with a spayed female.

                  One of my dogs had a huge *crush* on an elderly male dog once...it was so odd that he would run away from me to find him at the town golf course where many dog owners would walk their dogs in the winter. I mentioned it to my vet, he said that sometimes particular illnesses can give off weird smells and some dogs confuse them with other smells - like females in season. Is your parents terrier old? I think my vet suggested it might be kidney related.

                  But, no matter what, I would agree that you shouldn't allow it. Redirection and/or separating is probably the best idea.
                  That is really weird that you mentioned that. The female wheaten had elevated kidney enzymes at 12 weeks when she came home from the breeder. We've monitored her levels over the years and played around with her food. No matter what we've done her levels have stayed elevated but stable. Maybe part of his behavior is tied to her smell.

                  Trot: When I visit my parents it's usually for a few days. This time dexter will be staying with them for a week and then he's going out of state for a show. My parents are exceptionally permissive but I think I can talk them into separation and crating him whenever they are out. As long as I keep things simple they should follow through. His co-owner lives very close to them so it is easier to hand him over for shows when he stays with them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                    But, no matter what, I would agree that you shouldn't allow it. Redirection and/or separating is probably the best idea.
                    Yup, this.

                    There is NO reason for him to act that way, balls or not. So many people make excuses for intact males (not saying YOU are, just generalizing). They are perfectly capable of acting like "normal" dogs, you just don't allow the stupid crap!
                    -Kady

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Our Flat Coat got to keep his "distal brain tumors" till he was three years old because he was in the conformation ring and his breeder is still half owner. (She owned the back end)

                      With owning an intact dog, there should be a much higher level of responsibility. Dino spent a lot of time in training classes learning how to behave. Yes, he was allowed to look at girls, but he was leashed and he had to listen to us. We played lots of "watch me" type of games, and would keep him busy doing simple behaviors like touch, position changes, target work etc. to distract him when we were around a female in heat. Many times he would end up in the ring with a bitch in season (or there was one hanging out at ring side) so he had to learn to ignore it and keep his head in the game....

                      That said, it would have been totally unfair to toss him unsupervised into a situation where he was around (or could smell) a female that he perceived to be in season. He would just do what was natural (or get very frustrated trying). It was no good to tell him to "stop", because he'd just go right back to it again in a few minutes. We had to give him something more appropriate to do (keep him working), or physically restrain him in a crate or on a leash. Because there was a chance that he was going to breed, we didn't want him to get the idea that he couldn't court a bitch ever, so we just didn't give him opportunities.

                      BTW - In the end, we neutered him as soon as he finished his championship. He's a nice looking boy, but there are plenty with similar/identical pedigrees that are equally nice, and he's just a much happier boy with the hormones out of the equation.
                      The rebel in the grey shirt

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by diffuse01 View Post
                        Yup, this.

                        There is NO reason for him to act that way, balls or not. So many people make excuses for intact males (not saying YOU are, just generalizing). They are perfectly capable of acting like "normal" dogs, you just don't allow the stupid crap!

                        Agreed - Intact should not be an excuse for peeing on things or acting overly aggressive.

                        Breeding behavior is normal and to be expected, but the dog should also be able to listen and work in spite of distraction.
                        The rebel in the grey shirt

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If your dog is constantly licking your parents' dog's rear, your parents may need to get their dog checked for a vaginal/urinary infection or anal gland problems. While I do agree that an intact male should have manners, if you do want to use him at stud eventually, your corrections shouldn't be overly harsh. Separation of the two is probably your best bet.

                          I am not a big proponent of neutering males. I really don't think that neutering corrects behavior problems and there is a growing body of evidence that neutering can cause health problems. By the time he has finished his championship, his behaviors will, for the most part, be fixed so neutering will not have much affect on them. It really isn't hard for a responsible owner to manage an intact male dog.
                          I'm a second hand Vegan. Cows eat grass. I eat cows.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Didn't even realize this got bumped back up.



                            Right before I left town I noticed the female had a small cyst that opened up and was draining. I gave her a bath, cleaned and treated the drainage site, and also gave her a sanitary clip for good measures. Within a few hours he settled down markedly. He is still following her around a bit but now he is giving her a two to three foot buffer which is a big enough improvement that I am okay with that for now.


                            I don't know how much I believe that some dogs are "nursers" but I do think that my guy has a very sensitive nose and a strong desire to go after cuts and drainage and such. She has enough of a coat that a small finger nail sized spot was hard to spot. Obviously he needs to learn to give other dogs a bigger bubble but I think it is really confusing to him because she literally gives no physical sign that she is annoyed by his following or rough play.

                            He is being crated whenever he cannot be supervised and I'll continue to work with him when I go pick him up. I keep hoping that I'll get lucky and she'll flip him and pin him because I know that a dog's reaction time for correction is much quicker than mine. I know that the sooner I can establish appropriate boundaries the easier it will be for him but it's really hard when one dog doesn't follow the rules and he learns that rude behavior is acceptable in some circumstances.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wireweiners View Post
                              If your dog is constantly licking your parents' dog's rear, your parents may need to get their dog checked for a vaginal/urinary infection or anal gland problems. While I do agree that an intact male should have manners, if you do want to use him at stud eventually, your corrections shouldn't be overly harsh. Separation of the two is probably your best bet.
                              Both my neutered male dogs got REALLY interested in licking my spayed female's rear. They had both lived with her for a minimum of 2.5 years before that. It turned out she did have a urinary infection. Couple of days of antibiotics and they stopped.
                              Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
                                Didn't even realize this got bumped back up.

                                I don't know how much I believe that some dogs are "nursers" but I do think that my guy has a very sensitive nose and a strong desire to go after cuts and drainage and such. She has enough of a coat that a small finger nail sized spot was hard to spot. Obviously he needs to learn to give other dogs a bigger bubble but I think it is really confusing to him because she literally gives no physical sign that she is annoyed by his following or rough play.

                                .
                                I once had a male standard smooth dachshund that I swore was a doctor or nurse in a former life. If anyone had a "booboo", including me, he would lick and clean it. Only a dog person would say this but dog spit is really soothing to itchy chigger bites. I once had a mole on the back of my calf checked by my doctor because Wheeler kept licking at it and I had heard that dogs can smell skin cancers. It was nothing, just a mole.
                                I'm a second hand Vegan. Cows eat grass. I eat cows.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X