• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Spinoff from Undercoat thread - large breed long hair adults hate/fear brushing WTD?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spinoff from Undercoat thread - large breed long hair adults hate/fear brushing WTD?

    The undercoat thread at first had me planning to go run out and buy a slicker brush but then it was brought up that they caused some dogs pain...

    My two large Caucasian Ovcharka's are already royal wimps about being brushed.

    Totally my fault, I should have gently introducing them to brushing as puppies. Instead I waited until they obviously needed it, then held them still & raked them out.

    Now, they are both too big to hold still!

    They are 2 & 3, both over 120 pounds. I manage by having a friend help me when he comes over - they like him and he is big enough to hold them still for me to get a bit of brushing done. But very soon they are unhappy & the male starts shaking & I call it quits.

    Or another friend helps hold while I snip out the inevitable under ear mats with scissors. Or on their annual vet visits the vet techs help me clip out the larger mats in their butts/hind legs.

    But I know its not enough! I came up with a plan to get some tranquilizer from vet, take them to pro groomer, let them rake them all out -

    Then back home try to introduce little, gentle brushing sessions with treats.

    Only a friend told me she did that (tranq & pro groomer) with a rough collie and not only was the dog worse after with grooming, its temperment changed for the worse!

    So what to do? Most of their bodies are okay - I can keep the back & ruff okay with petting & "finger" grooming, and snip out the ear mats with scissors when they come. But if I go near their butt/hinds with a tool of any kind, or get after the butt matts with my fingers, they instantly get panicky & go into escape mode.

    These are dogs that are my cuddle bunnies the rest of the time, easy to walk on lead, snuggle up with me on the sofa, let me take treats right from their mouth, so considering this is supposed to be a tough breed, the fact this brushing/grooming thing is the ONLY problem I have used to be a comfort. But it's starting to bother me. I know they should get more regular brushing for their health, and they'd just look more beautiful...

    Any advice?

  • #2
    have them heavily sedated and shaved down close?
    then spend the next few months slowly fixing the "I hate brushing" thing? maybe if there are no painful matts, and you have no urgency about it, you can do it slowly and gently and work up to a regular daily brushing session.

    Comment


    • #3
      get a timer. Set the timer for 2 minutes, start the timer, brush gently. When the timer goes off, feed 2-3 treats and QUIT.

      repeat. often. like once per day.

      make the association a good one and totally forget the tranq. The tranq will often lower inhibitions and cause the dog to be more fearful/aggressive/problematic.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by wendy View Post
        have them heavily sedated and shaved down close?
        then spend the next few months slowly fixing the "I hate brushing" thing? maybe if there are no painful matts, and you have no urgency about it, you can do it slowly and gently and work up to a regular daily brushing session.
        Okay thanks for reminding me of this option, but I'll consider it a last resort - they are such *gorgeous* dogs it seems a sin to shave off all that beauty! If I can't get anywhere with other methods, I'll go this route.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by threedogpack View Post
          get a timer. Set the timer for 2 minutes, start the timer, brush gently. When the timer goes off, feed 2-3 treats and QUIT.

          repeat. often. like once per day.

          make the association a good one and totally forget the tranq. The tranq will often lower inhibitions and cause the dog to be more fearful/aggressive/problematic.
          Okay I like the idea of the timer. Usually when I get up the nerve to brush, I try to get as much done as I can since I know it will be so traumatic for both of us I won't want to do it again soon! The 2 minutes & treat is a much better idea.

          And you are backing up what my friend with the collie said about the tranq, so guess that idea is out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Just picked mine up from the groomer who says my guys are perfect for her and don't mind being brushed at all! When I do it they whimper, shake, cry, nip etc. Obviously there is a technique issue that I can't figure out. Pay someone that knows what they are doing and everyone is happy.
            McDowell Racing Stables

            Home Away From Home

            Comment


            • #7
              Get a grooming table with a noose. It's very different from just expecting them to stand still. For big dogs you can get a table with adjustable legs and lower it so you can reach them.

              Just start by giving them treats to be on the table - use a clicker if they are clicker trained.

              None of my dogs have ever *liked* being groomed, but they are very well behaved on the table. On the floor - forget about it.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Thanks so much everyone. You've given me a lot of new ideas to try. My goal is to get them groomed beautifully somehow - either the 2 minutes at a time method by me, or by a pro - and then post links to pics of my loffly CO's as proof of my success.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I second the idea of getting them to a patient, understanding pro-groomer. Sometimes it's just the anticipation of your projected anxiety/possibly nervous approach to the routine that makes the difference for the dog. My dad swore up and down that his lab wouldn't tolerate a nail trim. He went out of town for a long weekend and I was able to trim his nails without any issue whatsoever. Getting out the nail clippers, and doing it quickly without a big buildup made it a cakewalk.

                  Sometimes when your dogs are really bonded to you (as it sounds yours are), they can pick up on so much more than we let on. Finding a good pro groomer to do it for you, then slowly introduce positive, confident techniques might be just what you/they need!
                  Here today, gone tomorrow...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow, I googled the breed. Amazing dogs, and yeah, beautiful coats!

                    I've got pyrs, and frankly I take mine to the groomer. They have never enjoyed it, and there's no question that brushing out the light frizz under tail and flanks really hurts them. No wonder they don't like it much! You and the dogs both have their legitimate reasons for not tolerating this hair-pulling business. I'm tender headed myself, and hate having my hair done.

                    But, if I were going to work on grooming at home, first off I'd forget all idea of the end goal. Because if I think about the end goal, I will get in a hurry. So I'd just decide that for today, my goal was one tiny, half-second tug on a tuft of hair, in a non-tender place, just enough to create the sensation of a tug, and then POP, here's a really GREAT treat in your mouth and a hug, big guy.

                    And all you had to do was let me make that one tiny tug, that happened so fast you hardly even knew it.

                    (Personally, I clicker, so I'd use a click or a verbal marker to mark the moment of the tug, and that would help my dog understand that the treat was a result of the tug. But the tug/treat association will happen with consistency anyway.)

                    I'd do that a couple times, maybe over 48 hours or so. No big deal. Peaceful for all parties. I'd start to precede the tug by some ritual--perhaps calling Big Guy to the place where I'd eventually intend to do the *ssshhh* end goal.

                    Then I'd add the presence of the grooming tool. I wouldn't use it on him. I'd just have it with me when the tug/reward happened.

                    Somewhere in there, I might start to add in a tug now and then in a more tender spot. The more tender the spot, the bigger the jackpot. These aren't hard tugs, most of the time, but as everything remained relaxed, they might randomly be kinda hard, like getting your comb caught in a tangle. Not too many of these, and always followed with a deeeelicious, fabuloso treat.

                    You see where I'm going. It might take a month. But you would build up a very strong good association, for both of you, with the mild discomfort of the tugs. Eventually, you'd be able to tug all over. You'd be doing 4, 5, 10 tugs between each treat. You'd add in using the grooming tool, keeping it short and sweet. Then longer and deeper.

                    Go slow to go fast. Allow any tension or stiffness to relax before moving on. Think of it as a massage for both of you.

                    It's easy, really. But then you'll have to clean up all that fur.
                    Ring the bells that still can ring
                    Forget your perfect offering
                    There is a crack in everything
                    That's how the light gets in.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Diet can also have a significant effect on coat quality.

                      I'd be inclined to take them into a groomer who will be able to remove undercoat & cut out mats etc (especially any that may be close to the skin) & then work with brushing them at home.
                      When the coat is in good condition, you should be able to maintain it with only a few minutes daily brushing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was the poster citing negative reactions from dogs to slickers.

                        My Pap flees when I reach for any grooming item. When I first got this 7yo show dog, I had to corner & catch him if he saw me touch the grooming stuff. He would shiver, bite, and scream -before the brush touched him. If I held a comb, spray, or clippers in one hand and offered a treat in the other (in a confined space or on leash otherwise he was outta there), he would refuse and strain as far out of arm's reach as possible. He knew it was a 'trick.'

                        I was not as patient as I should have been because I felt pressure to take care of this dog properly, which included grooming. He visited his breeder, classes, and trials so I wanted him looking well-kept. Really silly and insecure of me.

                        I let him see that I am getting the brushes before I restrain him. I don't want him to be surprised. I do not know if that is the best strategy or not. Now I sit with him on the bed and watch TV while brushing and treating.

                        I feed very high value treats often. I sympathize with wanting to get it all over with while you are there. He got some mats. His nails got long. He stunk. But a year later, there is improvement.

                        Presently, he flees to his bed when I pick up a brush but no longer flees the main level, down the stairs, to cower at the front door . He does not shake. He does not bite or scream. He still automatically protests when I approach the ear fringe (Papillon) and tail.

                        This is a long, looooooong term project. Slow and steady wins this race.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X