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Advice Needed!! Barking to come in..

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    Advice Needed!! Barking to come in..

    Hi guys...

    So once again I am coming to the well with what I think could be a simple training question.

    Maggie, our new lab, is awesome. She has learned so much already and John told me very proudly that today he showed her the biscuit and called her name and she marched right into her crate un assisted and lay right down!!! Awesome progress for only a few weeks of having her.

    Ok so here's the question....

    Taz and Crow are laid back about being in the yard and just hanging out while we do people things in the house. They have access to water, shade, toys etc outside. (This is in good weather and temps only of course)

    Maggie plays for a while and will hang with them but when she "decides" (After any amount of time) that she wants to come in, she makes her way to the back door and barks non-stop until we let her in. **Added thought** Our back door is the closest proximity of the dogs property access to our neighbor's house. @ 5 yards. Thus I really want to get the barking down to a dull roar.

    Taz doesn't bark to come in. Crow kind of barks once every 10 minutes, but Maggie is a true barkbarkbarkbarkbark dog.

    Last night I made a little headway when I came out and told her no bark, and gently held her mouth shut, not on the nose and scent lines, but gently holding the sides and lips. After this she barked a lot less. So I think the light flickered on for a second.

    I am worried that she is conditioning us in a Pavlovian manner and given that sometimes I am working and can't just immediately jump up and let her in, that my poor neighbor will be deaf before long. I did speak to my neighbor, and she is fine. She understands and doesn't mind, but I did point out that we are working on this. I want to make it so she doesn't have to listen to this over and over forever.

    Would clicker training or something like it help here?? What should I do????

    Thanks in advance for all your help.

    ~Em
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

    #2
    I would slap a citronella spray bark collar on her and, at the same time, work on teaching her a non-noisy "I want in" that will open the door. I'd also try to get her in before she hits her barbarkbarkbark point. Is there some anxiety element at play here? She might just not be ready to hang out in the backyard for long periods of time yet?

    Comment


      #3
      not let her in when she barks? you're rewarding her behavior by responding to it. Never pay any attention to her at all when she barks. Only quiet dogs get let in. Holding her muzzle shut is attention and a reward for a barking dog.
      Or you could just install a doggy door.

      Comment

        Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by Simkie View Post
        I would slap a citronella spray bark collar on her and, at the same time, work on teaching her a non-noisy "I want in" that will open the door. I'd also try to get her in before she hits her barbarkbarkbark point. Is there some anxiety element at play here? She might just not be ready to hang out in the backyard for long periods of time yet?
        See she hasn't seemed anxious, but its of course a possibility. Moreso like she's having fun with Taz and Crow and then in an instant thinks... "Oh.. where are my people? I'll go find them!" and as she comes in, she'll come see us then want to go right back out. Oddly she doesn't bark to go out.

        I have tried to beat her barking point a lot this week. But let's face it, it's not a known commodity so without knowing when she'll start I end up lurking by the door, then risking it to go off to shower, change, go to the bathroom, and sometimes it's not a problem. And sometimes she starts when I am "detained."



        Originally posted by wendy View Post
        not let her in when she barks? you're rewarding her behavior by responding to it. Never pay any attention to her at all when she barks. Only quiet dogs get let in. Holding her muzzle shut is attention and a reward for a barking dog.
        Or you could just install a doggy door.
        Doggy door wouldn't be a great idea as we have lots of dirty things that would come into the house. So all our dogs are trained to come in and do a little turn and get their paws checked/dried and rubbed down with a towel before they're allowed into the carpeted sections of the house.

        Never respond to bark, I know there's a lot of truth there, but I fear that idea would cause my neighbor to 1.) kill me 2.) kill the dog or 3.) call our local cops for noise violations. And mind you my neighbor and I get along fine. Maggie really does bark THAT much.

        Maybe I'll check with my neighbor and see when she's going to be gone for 8 hours anytime soon. Maybe then we could do some intense practice.



        She came from a life on a tie chain. She would get put out, and then brought in. There was mention of her barking from her previous family, but that was related to crating and we seem to have gotten over that.

        Maybe it's just about acclimating to life in a yard. She's a very happy dog, and she has taken a little time to get into the swing of things (uunderstandably) but I have been amazed/impressed with how quickly she "gets" a concept once she understands it.

        ~Emily
        "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

        Comment


          #5
          You might try bringing her in well before she decides she wants in. So put her out a few minutes, then call her in. Saty in for ten minutes, then out. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Once she get the idea that outside is nice but finite, and she is going in and out without a big deal, you can lengthen her time outside.
          To avoid the barking issue you might want to train her to use a bell to come in or go out. Removes barking as a method of getting in or out.

          Comment


            #6
            To avoid the barking issue you might want to train her to use a bell to come in or go out. Removes barking as a method of getting in or out.
            many people have seriously regretted teaching their dogs this "trick".
            To the OP: are you catering to the dog? it sounds like you want the dog to be out. So why let the dog in? the dog's new, and just needs to learn the rules. You go out at this time, and you come back in at this time. And that's it, no ifs and or buts. If you're worried about the neighbors, explain the dog is new and will stop barking really soon. If dog doesn't stop, buy a good no-bark collar (one that shocks, not one of those stupid spray collars- the smell of the spray lingers on and on even when the dog is being good, very aversive and inhumane and bad training; the shock comes and goes with highly precise timing and feedback to the dog about the dog's behavior).

            Comment


              #7
              "most owners expressed a preference for the citronella spray collar. Owners perceived it as being more humane "
              yeah but the dogs disagree. What humans think is "more humane" is often not what the dogs think is more humane. For example, large numbers of people think prong collars are less humane than head-halters, but if you took a poll of the dogs you'd find a different result. Spraying smells up a dog's nose is simply cruel, considering how sensitive their noses are.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by wendy View Post
                (one that shocks, not one of those stupid spray collars- the smell of the spray lingers on and on even when the dog is being good, very aversive and inhumane and bad training; the shock comes and goes with highly precise timing and feedback to the dog about the dog's behavior).
                Spray collars have been shown MORE effective than shock collars.

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8731137

                And I have found that to be true in my house as well.

                You can also get scentless spray collars, which also look to be quite effective:

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12873023

                Here's another article that compares shock and spray, along with cortisol levels:

                http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/uploads...ol-Collars.pdf

                Demonstrates that they are equally effective, and neither stresses the dog more than the other. In fact, there was no statistically significant elevation of cortisol AT ALL, so your assertation that spray is inhumane is not held up in the literature.

                Comment


                  #9
                  With my barkaholics, I have found that if I disengage, stop whatever I am doing, cross my arms and turn away until they stop barking- I wait about 3-5 seconds of silence, then return to what I was doing and praise them that I get good results and the will stop with the demanding barking!

                  And then they come back from boarding and I have to start all over again. uugghh!
                  "I'm holding out for the $100,000 Crossrail Classic in 2012." --mem
                  "With all due respect.. may I suggest you take up Croquet?" --belambi
                  Proud Member of the Opinionated Redhead Club!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    can you take the time to toss the ball with her outside when she starts to bark then after a couple of tosses let her in so it looks like its your idea?

                    I ask this because she wants to be in and if you stop the barking you might get a beat up door because she may start scratching at the door instead to express her way of wanting to come in.

                    I personally like the bark at the backdoor when my dogs want to come in, but I see your point that a consistent bark is no fun.
                    www.facebook.com/doggonegoodgoodies
                    http://doggonebakedgoods.com/

                    Comment

                      Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by MunchingonHay View Post
                      can you take the time to toss the ball with her outside when she starts to bark then after a couple of tosses let her in so it looks like its your idea?

                      I ask this because she wants to be in and if you stop the barking you might get a beat up door because she may start scratching at the door instead to express her way of wanting to come in.

                      I personally like the bark at the backdoor when my dogs want to come in, but I see your point that a consistent bark is no fun.
                      See here's where it gets funny. If I am outside playing ball with them and John walks in for any old reason, sometimes she'll go running and sit and bark for him. And Sometimes the same with me. But not everytime. And she won't always want to go inside.

                      Believe me, we play with her. I school her obedience around the park next door, and we watch as she and Taz will run each other til exhausted. She isn't left alone, nor hardly exercised. Quite the contrary.

                      The bark at the door reasoning doesn't seem to be too consistent.

                      Thankfully the door is not wood, it's a metal/plastic blend thing and has survived many friends dogs who have come for a visit while their owners are on vacations. No fatal scratches yet. (Knock wood)

                      Here's a video to show her in action (playing, not barking)

                      http://www.youtube.com/user/Xctrygir.../0/-k-mt0wEr58

                      She's not a big barker during play, except when engaging in "tooth wars" with Taz. Then they're both talking up a storm.

                      And this is what makes me hesitant to use either kind of collar. I don't want her punished for "talking" to Taz or Crow by barking. It's a situational thing. The backdoor barking is the issue, not fun or playful barking. Thus I think the collars won't work for us.

                      ~Emily
                      "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                      Comment


                        #12
                        What about one of those sonic no bark birdhouses?

                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #13
                          But would it affect her in the yard? I could put one by the back door, but would the ultrasonic stuff reach her and Taz when they're playing around the corner in the yard?

                          ~Em
                          "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                          Comment


                            #14
                            EONS ago, I used the SUPER Barker Breaker that is sold here: http://dogbarkingstop.com/

                            It is NOT ultra-sonic--people can hear the shriek, too--but it WAS adjustable. I never used it in the backyard for a situation like yours, but I do think you could probably set it so it would only go off with close in barking and not activate with farther away barking. You'd just need to put it close to the door. I imagine the ultra-sonic models have the same sort of adjustment possible.

                            The other option would be a training collar, that YOU set off, instead of a bark collar. There are certainly lots of zap options out there, and a friend of mine had a spray training collar, so those exist as well...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have used a shock collar.. low setting.. works like a charm! you can probably borrow one since you won't need it for long

                              Comment

                                Original Poster

                                #16
                                Ahhhh we do have a training collar. It has the shock ability and is what john used on his hunting dog before. (So she'd be headed to use it as she gets trained to birds in the future)

                                I think we'll try this first.

                                Thanks for the multitude of answers and helpful suggestions!!

                                ~Emily
                                "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                                  Would clicker training or something like it help here?? What should I do????

                                  Thanks in advance for all your help.

                                  ~Em
                                  C/t will absolutely work and so will -R. You can accomplish this several ways.

                                  Go out, do a few simple excercises....sit c/t, down c/t come c/t, then wait.

                                  Begin a silent count of 5. If she can wait quietly for the count, c/t. If she barks, do the sit c/t, down c/t come c/t then wait.

                                  Again if she can do the count of 5 in silence c/t if not she gets to do the simple chain again.

                                  what you are doing is engaging her in a positive manner and giving her a reason to work for you and figure out what you want/what will work for her click.

                                  You want a short space of quiet to be able to reinforce that quiet.

                                  When she can wait for the count of 5 quietly, extend the count to 6, then 7 etc. Only after you get to 10 can you add anything else, like turning your back or moving toward the house, moving away from her etc.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                                    See here's where it gets funny. If I am outside playing ball with them and John walks in for any old reason, sometimes she'll go running and sit and bark for him. And Sometimes the same with me. But not everytime. And she won't always want to go inside.

                                    Believe me, we play with her. I school her obedience around the park next door, and we watch as she and Taz will run each other til exhausted. She isn't left alone, nor hardly exercised. Quite the contrary.

                                    The bark at the door reasoning doesn't seem to be too consistent.

                                    Thankfully the door is not wood, it's a metal/plastic blend thing and has survived many friends dogs who have come for a visit while their owners are on vacations. No fatal scratches yet. (Knock wood)

                                    Here's a video to show her in action (playing, not barking)

                                    http://www.youtube.com/user/Xctrygir.../0/-k-mt0wEr58

                                    She's not a big barker during play, except when engaging in "tooth wars" with Taz. Then they're both talking up a storm.

                                    And this is what makes me hesitant to use either kind of collar. I don't want her punished for "talking" to Taz or Crow by barking. It's a situational thing. The backdoor barking is the issue, not fun or playful barking. Thus I think the collars won't work for us.

                                    ~Emily
                                    Oh, well, I did not mean to play with her to exercise her, I just meant to play with her to get the, "I want to go inside now bark bark bark". and make going in your idea.
                                    www.facebook.com/doggonegoodgoodies
                                    http://doggonebakedgoods.com/

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      To avoid the barking issue you might want to train her to use a bell to come in or go out. Removes barking as a method of getting in or out.
                                      As a deafblind dog owner, I verify. I hate the damned bell...but hey, it works for our family.

                                      I think this issue is being overcomplicated a bit...my house is a revolving door for fosters and they tend to be the needy sort at first because theyre anxious about a new home setting. For dogs that are thoroughly rewarded with just the site of your face; we wait them out. As horrible as that sounds (sorry neighbors! I live in a close city neighborhood too) The dog does not come in until its quiet and off roaming the yard. Period. Even if it takes 2 hours. Twice before I've knocked on either neighbors door and asked them to go out in the backyard and garden/wander around/be a distraction tool...Fido will sniff the fence and wag tail at new distraction, and then once theyre busy sniffing up the tree/bush whatever near the fenceline we open up the door. Only lasts a day or two before they realize it isn't gonna work. If she gets an INKLING that you might come out to touch her face/fuss/anything then she's won.

                                      For those that we've had that are more sensitive/respondent to verbal command, I've just swung the door open VERY quickly and given a "HUSH!" and shut the door again before they can process it. Usually shell shocks them into doing something else. If they come back one or two more times, same deal. Again, not opening the door until you're either laying on the porch facing away from the door or out sniffing the yard. This has never been a training issue that has lasted long in any of my dogs or foster dogs.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by irkenequine View Post
                                        The dog does not come in until its quiet and off roaming the yard. Period. Even if it takes 2 hours. .
                                        this may work, or it may not and as the OP said, I'd hate to make my neighbors dislike my dog.

                                        To each his own, but this isn't a method I'd use.

                                        Comment

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