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Yet another show ? male vs. female

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  • Yet another show ? male vs. female

    Hi all,
    I am sorry for all the questions. But I need to as informed as I can be before actually venturing into this. Someone mentioned this in my last thread about getting a male vs. a female.

    For showing purposes which gender is better? And why? At first I wanted a female cause the one I have now is soo good about house manners and the males I have though both were neutered at a young age bloody mark everything insight. I love them but they make me crazy with that nasty habbit.

    What are the advantages and disadvantages from a newbie and breeder perspective?
    Thanks Again

  • #2
    I have an intact male show dog - he's perfectly housebroken. It was actually a little harder to housebreak my puppy bitch than my dog, but I did re-housebreak him when he discovered testosterone.

    I noticed that the male will get the BOB win more often than the bitches, at least in my breed. I have pulled only one Best Opposite vs several BOB from the classes with my dog.

    Breeding-wise...there are arguments in either direction. I can say it's a lot of responsibility for either gender with testing and pedigree research, etc. You must be prepared to help the bitch owner find homes for your male's puppies (or even take them in - you are responsible for their existence, just as much as the bitch owner) and you'll have heats, whelping, and all the expenses that entails if you own the bitch. I know several people who just have dogs for those reasons.
    Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom

    Comment


    • #3
      Bitches will blow coat just before and during a heat cycle. Sometimes that can extend the time it takes to get points.

      I've had up to 7 dogs in residence at a time. There were 3 intact males and up to 3 intact females. The boys were/are all expected to mind their manners, keep their brains between their ears, work and eat during heat cycles. They have understood since young that there are times you can mark and times when you use your chance to urinate (empty yourself). It has precious little to do with testosterone and much to do with training.

      Both genders seem to be a bit more distracted during heat cycles but (at my house) everyone figures out that "this too shall pass".

      In my experience (limited to the dogs mentioned above and the fosters I've had), the boys tend to be sweeter and a bit softer in temperament, the girls a tiny bit tougher and more "what's in this for me?"

      Comment


      • #4
        I wanted a girl at first too, but I now have two males and would get another in a heartbeat. Granted mine was neutered young, but he never marked and even now will go out and pee without lifting his leg if nothing is close. He works better for me than my dad's female dog in agility.

        My agility trainer use to breed and raise shelties and kept the females to breed and to run in agility. She has since gotten an Aussie like me, a male, and loves him to pieces. Hers also does not mark, is still intact, and just recently learned he can lift his leg. She wants another aussie and wants a male. Even her male sheltie she kept from her last litter is working better than his sister.

        Depends on what you want to do and individual dogs. I am sure some have great luck with the girls too. My first half aussie was one of the best dogs ever, but I would never hesitate to get a male now. Mine is my heart dog I always wanted.
        \"I never play horseshoes \'cause Mother taught us not to throw our clothes around,\" ~ Mr. Ed

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't show dogs, but I would much rather have an intact male dog than an intact female dog- if you think "marking" behaviors (which can be controlled through proper training) are bad, just wait until you spend some time with a "messy" female. THAT is exponentially worse.
          Here today, gone tomorrow...

          Comment


          • #6
            I personally prefer dogs. But to be honest, I think that might have been partly because our first dog was male, and after that I was absolutely sure I didn't not want a "mixed herd." So we have had only dogs ever since. Two of mine were/are intact (my 1st dog is now deceased), and the middle one was neutered when we knew he was no longer show/breeding quality.

            I have never had issues with my dogs marking in my house, but I have had instances where one of my dogs has marked in other people's houses or in other places. But those were rare and minor....I would not consider this a "deterrant" to getting a male.

            From a show perspective, I think there are pros and cons to everything. As a dog owner, I find that I benefit because my dog: has more coat, doesn't have heat cycles to deal with - which includes the coat blowing, and also does not behave differently if showing while in heat, etc., is easy to get to take a "pee break" at shows because he IS marking, v. bitches who often won't pee at shows until it's too late....

            But these are pretty minor. I would talk to breeders about the differences.

            My puppy's breeder (Brittany is her breed) thinks first time owners should not have bitches because they can be more manipulative and difficult. Not ever having one myself, I'm not sure if this is true, but she prefers her novice owners to take a dog as she feels they have an easier temperment.

            I do think that if you're looking to win Best of Breed/Groups/Best in Shows, then looking at a dog has a lot of merit. But for someone simply looking to finish a championship on their own dog, this isn't the same situation.....

            Comment


            • #7
              In my breed dogs are easier to finish than bitches. Just a fact.

              Comment


              • #8
                What breed and what do you plan to do? Just show or get into breeding? Many breeders are much more willing to sell a nice male over a nice bitch, especially to a new person. Do you just want to finish the dog or special it? How much experience do you have in the show ring (if you plan to special it) or do you plan to hire a handler? Personally I prefer males, but as a breeder I have to love my bitches.....

                If you have no bitches in the house (and depending on the breed) you may never have a marking issue.
                We do not have an overpopulation of dogs, we have an under population of responsible dog owners!!!

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Hi
                  Showing is the first thing and MAYBE breeding if we reached our goals. I am not opposed to breeding if done in a very thought out way. And so its clear I want to work with a well established breeder. I am just doing some fact finding before I start contacting breeders. And right now I still have horses and it will be a few months before I decide. I have been to a few shows and reading what I can since I have a ton to learn.

                  I have spoke to a couple breeders of the different setters via email and I have found them to be very honest and knowledgable in their breed. Also found them to be willing to help a newbie.

                  I have never had issues housebroken dogs until the Rat terrier I got a 8 months and he was neutered within 3 weeks of getting him but that little s%&t marks.....everything! He is now 9 yrs old and still does it. Which have made my other neutered dog follow suit.

                  So thats why I asked the male vs. female question. Is there that much difference in the temperment and trainability in the genders?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Experienced breeders you are emailing should recommend which gender is easier for a novice: it often depends on the breed.

                    I thought I had to have a female because my resident pup was male. I was following the mantra of don't do same gender in same household. For my new breed, the males are easier going and more eager to please. ((My breeder summed it up: Papillon bitches, well, they're bitches. ))

                    My intact male was raised and lived in a kennel environment for 6 years. Never housebroken. I have had him about 10months now and he does not mark in my home . Pay off of his eager to please temperament.

                    The best thing about males: the sun and stars don't have to be aligned while you do a potty dance in the exercise yard of a trial praying they finally get to it and pee already before you're due in the ring. Just point em at something vertical !!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We have one intact male. He does not mark inside. Heck, outside he still usually squats (he was raised by our largely female pack).

                      I was among the ones who suggested that a male might be better the first time out for you. It's not true for every breed, but for many the dogs are easier to finish than bitches. My mentor and I are both largely on hold for the show season at the moment as we each have a bitch and both girls have completely blown their coats, about eight weeks earlier than we expected. Meanwhile, Gale's brother looks the same as ever and he'll get to keep showing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Since you are wanting a coated breed, generally speaking dogs carry more coat than bitches and as has been mentioned, they don't blow coat when they come in season. Dogs seem to have more ring "presence" than bitches and generally do better as specials but that could also be due to the fact that many bitches retire to the welping box soon after getting their Ch. while dogs continue to be shown. Kind of like a mare going into the broodmare band while the stud is still out there campaigning. If you are planning on doing obedience or agility, then you can't show if your bitch is in season and it always seems that they will come in just after you mail off the entries for a trial.

                        However, if you already have 2 dogs in the house with a habit of marking I'm afraid its going to be next to impossible to bring another male into the house and not have him pick up the habit, especially if he's intact.

                        As far as termperment, my boys always seemed sweeter and more attached to me than the girls but I liked the girls also.
                        I'm a second hand Vegan. Cows eat grass. I eat cows.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by spook1 View Post
                          So thats why I asked the male vs. female question. Is there that much difference in the temperment and trainability in the genders?
                          for me there is not, but.....I know what I want to train, and have the plan in mind and am willing to confine and limit the environment to make training clear.

                          ie: marking dogs only get out of the crate if we go directly outside, and have limited opportunities to urinate. They learn quickly that if you don't empty, it can be uncomfortable as you go directly back to your crate and do not get out again for a set period of time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bicoastal View Post
                            The best thing about males: the sun and stars don't have to be aligned while you do a potty dance in the exercise yard of a trial praying they finally get to it and pee already before you're due in the ring. Just point em at something vertical !!
                            That's the truth!!! And do not move if they are in the process of squating as they might just decide that this is not THE place after all and then you are back to square one and another 15 minutes of hoping and praying!!!

                            I tell everyone there is a reason they are called. "BITCHES"....
                            We do not have an overpopulation of dogs, we have an under population of responsible dog owners!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arizona DQ View Post
                              That's the truth!!! And do not move if they are in the process of squating as they might just decide that this is not THE place after all and then you are back to square one and another 15 minutes of hoping and praying!!!

                              I tell everyone there is a reason they are called. "BITCHES"....
                              Oh come on now! My Dobe bitch knows that when I say "go busy" she is to go....and she does! I never have a problem getting her to pee.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by vtdobes View Post
                                Oh come on now! My Dobe bitch knows that when I say "go busy" she is to go....and she does! I never have a problem getting her to pee.
                                You have more tact then me. I tell mine to "go potty."
                                DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                                  You have more tact then me. I tell mine to "go potty."
                                  ACK! I can't stand it when the girls at work say that to their dogs!! Go potty...sounds so childish!!

                                  All of my dogs are taught from puppyhood to "go" on command.
                                  Last edited by vtdobes; Jul. 28, 2011, 02:49 PM. Reason: added text

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                                    You have more tact then me. I tell mine to "go potty."
                                    Me too!

                                    I really prefer bitches, but if I were more serious about the show ring, I might go with a dog, as it does seem easier to finish them and get into the group ring with them. (Although the #1 Ridgeback in the country right now is a bitch, which is super cool--Oakhurst Fruit of the Vine--and I am getting a puppy out of her momma this winter!)

                                    I find dogs to be needier and less independent, and I just don't enjoy them like I do the girls. I feel the same way about cats and horses and the only boy animals I own are a few pet mice

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by vtdobes View Post
                                      Oh come on now! My Dobe bitch knows that when I say "go busy" she is to go....and she does! I never have a problem getting her to pee.
                                      I say "hurry up and go"... sometimes it works.

                                      I think the issue with peeing is that bitches at show grounds are not always as easy v. dogs. Maybe yours are trained to go anywhere, but I know that more bitch owners have difficulty when the choices are a) parking lot; b) ex-pen; c) corner of the building. My dog will pee on them all, though.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Simkie View Post

                                        I find dogs to be needier and less independent, and I just don't enjoy them like I do the girls. I feel the same way about cats and horses and the only boy animals I own are a few pet mice
                                        I don't have a preference per se.... but my bitch is the queen of needy! She has to be near me, touching me, etc. My dog on the other hand, he is Mr Independent It's ok though as he's one cool dude! I love both of them for their individuality.

                                        Lucky you getting a Ridgeback pup! I love them. Alas...I could never give up my Dobes though

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