• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Dog nqr: symptoms indicate...???

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dog nqr: symptoms indicate...???

    Dog is mid-sized middle-aged terrier x, neutered male. Temperament is usually ebullient and friendly and energetic - your average terrier, in other words.

    Became more depressed, for want of a better word, gradually through yesterday afternoon, and didn't improve through the night or this morning. Seems lethargic, and barely interested in what's going on around the house.

    Didn't eat his supper last night (and this dog eats EVERYTHING - he's VERY food motivated), turned his head away; ditto this morning.

    Breathing seems a little shallow, and pulse *seems* elevated, but I'm not sure, as I don't know enough to know what his regular pulse is.

    He's not particularly hot, or cold. Don't have a thermometer to take his temp, unfortunately.

    Seems physically uncomfortable - not cramping, or humping his back, though.

    Tummy looks normal, and I can hear little gurgles if I put my head on his flank.

    He'd pooped on the porch yesterday, which is TOTALLY unlike him - he's normally very discreet. Fairly soft stools, softer than normal, but not diarhea.

    He's a house dog, but spends lots of time outdoors - we live on a farm. The only thing I can think that was different about yesterday was that it was garbage day, and the dogs came with me in the car to put the garbage out at the end of the road, and they scampered around for 10 minutes.

    So - could be he picked up something noxious there? But he's not been sick afaik.

    Oh, and he doesn't seem to want to drink, either.

    so if anyone has any ideas, fire away!

    Just waiting to schedule a trip to the vet for him, but last time we had a health scare with one of the other dogs, I got some really helpful suggestions here, so I thought it worth trying again.

    TIA

  • #2
    Ok just as a reference point, when I took my trainers test (for racehorses in MD) there was a question like this:

    "A horse seems listeless, looking at its sides, laying down and rolling, seems uncomfortable. What should you do?"

    Now ok... this is colic 101. BUT the ONLY correct answer is "Call the vet." No points given for anything other than that. The point they make which I am gonna repeat to you... no matter how much experience you have dealing with sick animals you are not a vet.

    You can get tons and tons of great advice here, but unless it's a vet giving you the advice, you're still not guaranteed to get the best hands on advice.

    So rather than forestalling medical attention, I would go right to the vet.

    ~Emily
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

    Comment


    • #3
      If the dog is not drinking water, that is vet ASAP.

      If it were my dog, I'd check the gum color. http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...tells-you.html

      You should probably get your dog to the vet regardless, but checking the gums could give you an idea whether you should leap in the car right now and burn rubber to get there or give them a call and wait an hour or two to go in.

      JMO, of course, but dogs are stoic creatures so if you're seeing that degree of distress your dog is probably much more uncomfortable than you'd think.

      Comment


      • #4
        inappetance, lethargy, shallow breathing = possible life threatening emergency. monitor him closely and know you are taking your chances by not having him checked over right away. an internal bleed, perforation, pancreatitis or acute abdomen all have thesse symptoms and hours can mean the difference between life and death. keeping fingers crossed its nothing serious.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
          inappetance, lethargy, shallow breathing = possible life threatening emergency. monitor him closely and know you are taking your chances by not having him checked over right away. an internal bleed, perforation, pancreatitis or acute abdomen all have thesse symptoms and hours can mean the difference between life and death. keeping fingers crossed its nothing serious.
          Ditto -- I have seen dogs with those symptoms have bleeding internally either into the belly, chest, or sac around the heart (pericardium). Sepsis or internal perforation of some kind is also possible -- gall bladder, urinary bladder, intestine, etc.

          DON'T wait. A physical exam and some diagnostic tests (bloodwork, x-rays) could be lifesaving if done early.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            He got to the vet yesterday afternoon, and they took blood for tests, and kept him in overnight on a drip.

            In the last 20 hours 900ml of a 1l drip has gone into him (there must be a better way of wording this!).

            Nothing abnormal on the bloodwork.

            Nothing untoward showed up on xrays.

            Temp normal.

            He's still lethargic, or depressed, lacking in his normal energy.

            Heartrate was normal when we took him in, but today it's very erratic.

            The vets around here use a type of "phone in" EKG, for want of a better description, and they're going to run that test now.

            Stumped, so any ideas, keep 'em coming.

            And, one of you worded "get them to the vet ALWAYS" so well - can't access the right phrase right now, but the way you worded it was great, and a keeper.

            Comment


            • #7
              Abdominal and cardiac ultrasound time!! Make sure its done by a radiologist (preferably) or internist/cardiologist.


              There is obviously SOMTHING going on, and these would be the next logical steps. Keepus posted!! Good luck!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Couple of things spring to mind....but the biggest?

                Obstruction not yet seen on radiograph. I'd be doing an upper GI series w/ barium.

                My guy had had a history of pancreatitis/hepatitis (due to his meds making him more sensitive). went off food. Was still okayish but was off food. Did rads, saw nothing. Vomiting water too. For days, we did IV fluids and such thinking that he had pancreatitis, yada yada.

                Well the second upper GI indicated a blockage and sure enough, there was a rope toy in his small intestine.
                A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                Comment


                • #9
                  My Afghan who died of hemangiosarcoma presented like this. I second the suggestion of an abdominal ultrasound.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yeah, he needs an echocardiogram and an abdominal ultrasound. I'd be worried about a heart issue first and foremost. If your heart isn't beating normally, your blood doesn't get pumped everywhere it needs to be, and that will cause those feelings of lethargy and malaise.

                    Hope your pup is doing OK until they can figure it out...Jingles!

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Thanks, guys - I really appreciate the suggestions!

                      Latest update is:

                      - The heartbeat, which was OK yesterday, but racing the day before imo (before the vets saw him, so just mho), was all out of whack today, and sure enough an ekg confirmed this. The vet gave him a dose of Lidocaine on a drip, which improved matters considerably.

                      She called what he has "ventricular tachocardia," which I have since Wikipedia'd, of course, although I'd love a translation in layman's terms if anyone's up for that! Is it common in middle-aged dogs, for instance? He reminds me of the classic case of middle-aged guys who get over-excited playing hockey once a week, and have a heart attack. He's generally pretty steady - lively, but nothing outrageous, but the neighbours' dogs set him off when they come noseying over, and he about blows a gasket trying to see them off the property. Then, to add to the indignity, they blatantly ignore him, which gets him even more upset (drunken neighbour just phoned to apologize - good guy, lol - but it is a quarter to midnight here!).

                      - Back to the dog: he's still a bit too dehydrated, so he's with a vet probably throughout the weekend, and if he hasn't stabilized by early next week, we take him to see the cardiologist.

                      - Xrays of gut showed nothing; xray of chest showed his heart is slightly enlarged possibly; xray of his lungs showed a couple of grey-white areas - not sure what that means yet.

                      Our vet is away from her clinic (at her own farm) tonight, so she slotted us into the emergency clinic in town - very fancy and competent, expensive of course, but he's in good hands, and being monitored constantly, and he can go back to her tomorrow if he's still stable.

                      Poor dog - he was buuuursting for a pee in the car between our vet and the emergency clinic, which I was too clueless to read, and he eventually peed in my lap - instantly happier dog and less happy me, lol, but no harm done.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
                        Abdominal and cardiac ultrasound time!! Make sure its done by a radiologist (preferably) or internist/cardiologist.


                        There is obviously SOMTHING going on, and these would be the next logical steps. Keepus posted!! Good luck!!
                        I am neither a radiologist, internist or cardiologist (just a simple anesthesiologist and criticalist) but I do U/S all the time and am pretty darned good at them. FWIW.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          V-tach (ventricular tachycardia) simply means that the ventricles, which are the chambers of the hear that pumps blood to the body (from the left side via the aorta) or the lungs (from the right side via the pulmonary arteries), are pumping at too fast a rate.

                          The causes of V-tach are numerous, and eliminating systemic disease (such as cancer, bleeding somewhere, severe dehydration, electrolyte imbalances, etc) are essential. Looking directly at the heart muscle is important too to see if there is a problem in the structure of the heart, which could then affect the way that electrical signals regulating the rate are conducted.

                          The problem with V-tach is that the heart is going so fast that there isn't much time for the chambers to actually fill, so the amount of blood being pumped to the body isn't as great as if the heart was working normally. There is also a risk of the rhythm turning into V-Fib (ventricular fibrillation) which is when the ventricles essentially start quivering (and thus not pumping!). That rhythm needs to be shocked back into a normal rhythm (hence your defibrillators!) or else the patient can die.

                          I hope that you get to the bottom of things...sounds like a visit to the cardiologist will help greatly with that!

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Thanks for putting that in layman's terms, Pancake - I really appreciate it.

                            I just spoke to the emergency vet, and she says all systems pretty much back to normal - both ends functioning fully, ditto everything in between and only a very slight blip on one ekg.

                            The cardiologist is out of town until mid-July, but we'll probably take him either to see him or go to a specialist clinic sooner, as req.

                            In the meantime, he'll probably spend the weekend with our own vet, so she can monitor closely, I should think.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MeghanDACVA View Post
                              I am neither a radiologist, internist or cardiologist (just a simple anesthesiologist and criticalist) but I do U/S all the time and am pretty darned good at them. FWIW.
                              Im sure you are, wasnt saying that other vets cant do them but its like sending crashing DKA to a radiologist - sure they can probably treat but the best QUALITY exam will be with a criticalist Just had a dog admitted last week who has THREE ultrasounds done within 1 week - by RDVM,by 2 internists - wasnt until it saw the radiologist until the itty bitty insulinoma was found....and the forming clot in the vena cava (which was missed by them all as well).

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Sad follow-up: we had our little dog put to sleep on Sunday.

                                It was a holiday weekend here, and there was neither a veterinary cardiologist nor a vet with diagnostic ultrasound equipment available within an 6 hour drive from us, heart-breakingly.

                                Given what the CardioVet (or is it CardioPet?) experts had been able to determine, along with our own and the emergency vets' analyses, plus the dog's obvious discomfort and deteriorating state, we decided not to have him suffer any longer with the expectation that experts even further afield would be able to make an accurate diagnosis and turn his condition around.

                                All very distressful. Like all great dogs, he was the best dog ever, with an amazing history, who lived an extraordinary life, and we miss him horribly. Thank goodness for digital photography, so we can relive our many laughing memories of him.

                                Thanks again for all the knowledgeable, helpful, and thoughtful suggestions.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  What a sad update. I can understand your being heartbroken. Godspeed.
                                  McDowell Racing Stables

                                  Home Away From Home

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Very sad. Sorry for your loss.

                                    ~Emily
                                    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X