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Cat Killer :-(

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  • Cat Killer :-(

    My otherwise perfect dog is a cat killer :-(

    The first time was at my MIL's and she feeds feral cats and there are usually 20 or so around and kittens galore. He got a kitten.

    Last week I was at a clinic and thought I had him right with me but the second I turned my back he grabbed one right in front of my horse's stall.

    Is there anything to be done other than a muzzle and a short leash? If he knows I am watching/paying close attention he will only stare intently. But if I take my focus off of him he will go for them.
    Kanoe Godby
    www.dyrkgodby.com
    See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.

  • #2
    Wish I knew. My mother's otherwise perfect Cocker spaniel lived in a basket muzzle when I watched him at my house. I had doors and crates to keep him and the cats separate, but with children around, it is best to safe rather than sorry.
    Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom

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    • #3
      Jesus...I'd be beside myself if any dog of mine killed not one, but two cats. Sorry, but that dog would be on its way to doggie heaven.

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      • #4
        Why is he off leash around cats?

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        • #5
          No there's nothing you're going to do to prevent him from killing more cats unless you separate him, keep him muzzled, and leashed around cats.

          That being said, if people insist on having indoor/outdoor or just outdoor cats, it's their risk. Our new neighbor ASSURES me his cat will stay out of our yard where my pack of Jacks are turned in and out throughout the day (not left alone, always watched). I've been honest with him when I've told him in all seriousness that my dogs are working terriers and they will kill the cat if they come upon it. He blythely says Kitteh is big enough to stand up to a terrier or two. You can't fix stupid.

          It is YOUR responsibility however to keep your dog away from cats. He either doesn't go to the barn, or stays crated in comfortable surroundings while there. Same thing at your mother's.

          And GoFish, your comment is not thought out. A dog is just being a dog if it kills a cat, rabbit, squirrel, guinea pig etc. Would you put a horse down if it kicked and killed a dog minding it's own business in the barn aisle? Would you put a cat down for killing mice? (see ee cummings poem 'me up at does'). The human in each circumstance takes the blame.
          ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
          Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

          "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CDE Driver View Post

            Is there anything to be done other than a muzzle and a short leash? If he knows I am watching/paying close attention he will only stare intently. But if I take my focus off of him he will go for them.
            ****************************

            maybe.

            a lot depends on how hard you want to work at this and how hard you are willing to work to maintain the behavior.

            Instead of YOU keeping an eye on HIM, you need to reverse that and have him make eye contact with you.

            You need to train him that cat=come find mom and stare holes in her.

            Then you have to continue to work that. It's a lot of work and you may have a top limit for how much he can handle.

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            • #7
              They aren't natural enemies. I disagree with the notion a dog is being a dog and it's natural to kill. Working dogs don't mean killers.

              We have three inside cats, dog getts along with them all or at least knows which one to keep her distance from. She's surrogate mom the the young male cat that we bottle raised. They play together and he even sleeps with her on occassion. She also greets, head bumps most of the feral cats that we feed and take care of. She learned a few basic commands early and "leave it" was the important one.

              Not sure how safe I would feel to have a dog that kills cats. If I couldn't get him under control, I wouldn't be taking him out where there might be cats.

              You have not mentioned breed, is there a reason? And yes, why is he off a leash?
              The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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              • #8
                My beloved Kinsella killed a couple of cats. I was on the way to the vet to have her PTS when my mom talked me out of it. She was NEVER off leash outside of my house from then on. You just have to be diligent.

                And breed doesn't matter.
                Not all who wander are lost.

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                • #9
                  Maybe it's the schism between cat person and dog person. Some things that have been said in this thread, such as an "otherwise perfect" dog being a cat killer, or a dog having "killed a couple of cats", are causing me anguish. My dog would be gone, whether from the farm or from this mortal coil I'm not sure, but gone he would be.

                  My current dog is a cat CHASER. It is up to me to ensure that we never find out what happens when/if he caught or cornered one. He will not be off-leash at the barn until his recall and "leave it" are perfected. And maybe not even then.
                  Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.
                  Starman

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kryswyn View Post

                    That being said, if people insist on having indoor/outdoor or just outdoor cats, it's their risk.


                    And GoFish, your comment is not thought out. A dog is just being a dog if it kills a cat, rabbit, squirrel, guinea pig etc. Would you put a horse down if it kicked and killed a dog minding it's own business in the barn aisle? Would you put a cat down for killing mice? (see ee cummings poem 'me up at does'). The human in each circumstance takes the blame.
                    First point: Uh, no, not really. MY cats are allowed to be outdoor cats on MY property and live in safety. (Not that any of my five are actually allowed outside, but that's besides the point.) I ASSUME that someone is not going to bring THEIR known cat-killer onto MY PROPERTY to harass MY animals. You could transfer that to anything: "that's the risk you take putting horses in the pasture"/"letting your kids play around dogs"/etc. No. When a dog comes onto MY property, it better be well behaved and leave MY animals alone. The situation with your neighbor's cat is different because your dogs are guarding your property.

                    OP, I sure as heck hope that the owner of the barn cat (can't tell where the clinic was happening, your regular barn or not) gave you a good talking to. I would be LIVID.

                    Agreed with "human is at fault," but disagree about "born to kill." Wolves, maybe, but not domesticated dogs. Domesticated dogs are bred to live in harmony with their humans and assorted pets, and herding breeds who actually herd are almost immediately culled the instant they injure any of their protectees. None of my three dogs (all of whom are very "intense" breeds: Aussie, Border Collie, and Malinois) bother cats.


                    Originally posted by 7HL View Post
                    They aren't natural enemies. I disagree with the notion a dog is being a dog and it's natural to kill. Working dogs don't mean killers.

                    Not sure how safe I would feel to have a dog that kills cats. If I couldn't get him under control, I wouldn't be taking him out where there might be cats.

                    You have not mentioned breed, is there a reason? And yes, why is he off a leash?
                    Just want to ditto all this.


                    Originally posted by JoZ View Post
                    Maybe it's the schism between cat person and dog person. Some things that have been said in this thread, such as an "otherwise perfect" dog being a cat killer, or a dog having "killed a couple of cats", are causing me anguish. My dog would be gone, whether from the farm or from this mortal coil I'm not sure, but gone he would be.

                    My current dog is a cat CHASER. It is up to me to ensure that we never find out what happens when/if he caught or cornered one. He will not be off-leash at the barn until his recall and "leave it" are perfected. And maybe not even then.
                    I'm with you on the anguish. What I'm not understanding is why this known cat-killer (I will let the first time go, because it wasn't actually known...plenty of dogs watch cats) was off-leash on SOMEONE ELSE'S property, and killed someone else's cat. For all the whiners not allowed to bring their dogs to horse shows and barns....that's why, right there. I know not everyone gets attached to their barn cats, but were I the owner of said cat I would be sobbing my heart out, and the OP would be encouraged to make quite a large donation to the local animal rescue in barn kitty's name.

                    My Malinois was "overly-interested" in kittens as a pup. He was FIRMLY disciplined both by the humans of the family, whenever "undue attention" was paid towards a cat, and by my cats themselves, who had raised a 110lb Doberman and thought nothing of beating the sh!t outta a 20lb puppy. He now thinks cats are just the greatest, loves sharing his bed by the radiator with them, although he still steps carefully around my biggest, baddest old man kitty.

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                    • #11
                      I have a cat chaser. He's never allowed access to cats. Ever. I don't think he would kill one, but you never know. And I won't take a chance. He's not allowed off leash and we're putting invisible fence in this weekend (weather permitting). He's a big chicken when it comes to noise, so I'm sure the shock and the buzzing with stop him in his tracks.

                      My barn kitty stays in the barn. My lost barn cat used to come up to the patio doors and rub against them to torment him. She had a definite sense of humor.

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                      • #12
                        Sadly our one english springer spaniel has killed a cat. It really threw us for a loop, this is the same dog that lives peacefully with our 7 indoor cats. My husband & I adopted a colony of feral cats from a rescue to live in our hay shed & barns, all was going well as the those cats seemed to stay close to the barns & somehow knew the dogs perimeter of their electric fence. But then a stray tom cat showed up & began living with our barn cats. It seemed to be working our barn cats actually accepted him & we were calling to get the tom cat neutered when he must have ventured too close to our one dog & he killed him. It was one of the most horrifying things I've ever dealt with, our dog is a very loving guy, this blew my mind why he'd do this. Before this happened, my husband who is a school teacher took our dog to school for a day & this dog was the perfect gentleman with everyone. We now can't trust the dog so he'll never go to school again. The vet feels our dog knew the tom cat was different & not part of our "family" which I guess in the dog's mind are the inside dogs & cats. He's also grabbed our one other barn cat but my husband was quick enough to separate the two & give our dog the "come to Jesus lesson". Since then he hasn't done anything more, & I pray he never does, but I'll never trust this dog with cats ever again.

                        This dog's father was second in the USA for field trials so the hunting gene is strongly ingrained in him, his eyes glaze over when he gets onto something & he turns into a different dog. It totally breaks my heart he's like this, but I chalk it up to he's a bird dog & has high hunt drive & somewhere along the lines I've obviously failed on my part to train him properly. We have now put a bell on his collar to give animals some warning where he is and he's only outside while we're outside too. I know this is playing Russian Roulette and we need to do more, so we're searching for a shock collar to work with him that NO means NO when he even looks at cats. I'm really at a lost, I don't have much advice to offer only understanding, I'm walking that long hard road too with my dog & I hate it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          CDE Driver- so sorry you are dealing with this. Muzzle and leashed absolutely!

                          A dog with such a track record would not be accompanying me anywhere other people's pets could be harmed.

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                          • #14
                            Some dogs have a higher prey drive than others. That being said, a friend of mine (retired Akita breeder) worked VERY hard with her pups from the get-go to help control that prey drive in the pups to prevent them from being so driven.

                            Because one of the reasons our dogs was turned into the shelter before we got her was due to her cat killing nature, I take cats out of the equation. Of course, although she's highly trained, she's never off-leash because she's a "pit bull" anyways.
                            If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
                            DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
                            Originally posted by talkofthetown
                            As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.

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                            • #15
                              My two want to chase cats; don't know what they would do if they caught one. I don't want to find out. My mom's Westie killed a cat recently, and Mom was horrified. But the cat was in HIS yard, and according to my grandmother who saw the whole thing, the cat wasn't too smart about it, lunging and hissing at Fergus. (Fergus, while he is the sweetest dog in the world where people are concerned, has the terrier "prey drive" in spades. You can do anything with him, but God help the chipmunk, opossum, or, apparently, cat who dares cross his path).

                              Sadly, the cat's owner didn't really seem to care much.

                              We've worked VERY hard on "ignoring the roaming cats" and paying attention to ME when we are out walking. It's part of being a polite dog. As much as I would love to let them out in the yard to chase off the neighbor cats who persist in trying to destroy my garden, I know that doing so will only confuse them. I have to be content with the hose as a deterrent.

                              They're good now, but I have to be vigilant when we're out walking. If the dogs think I'm not paying attention and don't see the cat they're looking at, attempts will be made to take advantage.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JoZ View Post
                                Maybe it's the schism between cat person and dog person. Some things that have been said in this thread, such as an "otherwise perfect" dog being a cat killer, or a dog having "killed a couple of cats", are causing me anguish. My dog would be gone, whether from the farm or from this mortal coil I'm not sure, but gone he would be.
                                I am a cat and dog person, and don't for one second think I wasn't totally devastated. I - and Kinsella - lived with 2 full time cat residents with no problems. I took 10 cats from a very overcrowded shelter to re-home, had 4 left, and they were locked in the spare bedroom when I went to dinner. I don't know how the door got open, but when I got home, 2 cats were dead and the other two were hiding. My 2 house cats were asleep on my bed, untouched & unafraid. I don't know what happened, and I called the vet, hysterical, and they agreed to meet me THAT NIGHT to have her (Kinsella) PTS. My mom talked me out of it when I called her - hysterical - on my way to the clinic. And I can tell you that I am so glad she did. I never trusted Kinsella with cats again, but losing her as well would not have made a bad situation any better. And for 10 more years (until the day she died) I made damn sure she never had occasion to be alone with a cat.

                                Responsible dog ownership means being responsible for your dogs actions. It does not mean offing them for a one-time offense. (yes, I realize the OP's dog has a second, seperate offense) I would be HORRIFIED if my dog had killed someone else's cat at a clinic, but I would NOT rush to put them down. I would take responsibility and NEVER allow the dog off-leash outside of my home again (and they'd never go to the barn or a clinic with me again either).

                                It disturbs me that someone would so easily give up on a beloved family pet - that smacks of not owning their part in the problem and taking the easy way out.

                                And GoForAGallop - unless your cats are fenced in on your property with a fence they can't get over/under/through, there is no guarantee they will stay there. I agree that they should be safe on your property, but once they cross that line, well, that is a risk you take if you let them outdoors.
                                Not all who wander are lost.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Please know that I am in anguish about this and very angry. I am not taking it lightly or just blowing it off.

                                  The dog in question is a Boxer. He has a sweet, cheery temperament and is really a good dog.

                                  We live on 200 acres in the middle of a forest. We never had a cat here until one wandered in and took up residence in the barn. It makes itself scarce when we show up and is never a temptation for the dog.

                                  The situation at my MIL's house was bizarre. I did have him on a leash. We were negotiating the cat gauntlet to get out to the truck. A small one literally ran up to him and he just snapped at it. We don't visit her very often and I had no idea she fed every cat in the county and they had all their kittens on her porch. I will not be taking him there with us again. In fact I may not go again, I don't think I can stand the smell for another week.

                                  I didn't even know there were cats at the barn where the clinic was being held. We were there for two days and I didn't see even one. Had I known he would have been on a leash clipped to me or out at the trailer the entire time. Another person at the clinic actually told me I should have just disposed of cat and not said anything, that blew my mind. I went and found the barn owner and told her what happened. I apologized with all my heart and did not let the dog out of the trailer except for potty breaks for the remainder of our stay.

                                  Be assured he will never be off leash again around cats or where I even suspect there may be cats and if I know I am going somewhere that has a large cat population I will figure out a way to leave him home. When I take him to events with us he is always on a leash as per event rules.

                                  Once again, I am not blowing this off and I feel terrible about it.
                                  Kanoe Godby
                                  www.dyrkgodby.com
                                  See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This is why we don't allow dogs at our farm. Years ago a "wonderful" dog killed all our cats in about 15 minutes. He had the grab and shake down to a science.

                                    We do have our own dogs though. They are Corgis and were cat trained as puppies by our 22 pounder

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      That's a tough one and I'm sorry.

                                      I've now raised four Dobermans in a house with a cat (or two) and our youngest I will NEVER trust around cats. He's now 18 months old and he will never be unsupervised in the presence of a feline or other small animal. I don't understand - he was actually the youngest of all of them when we brought him home at 8 1/2 weeks (both girls were 12 weeks before they came home and our other male was a rescue at about 4 1/2 months), and was taught from day one that looking at/focusing on Kitty was Completely Unacceptable. It just never "took". We reinforce that daily - but have accepted that he will not change and it's our responsibility to make sure nothing bad comes of it.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        asb_own _me, I know what you're saying! Our dog was born at our farm, we bred his mother & she's never been this way towards cats. We also have another one of the litter mates & she's also fine with cats. It's truly baffling why now he has problems with cats, we've had him his entire life & always around cats, then boom he goes postal on the cats outside. The only thing we can figure is he sees them as in his territory because they are outside cats, I just don't get it. We even neutered him sooner than originally planned because he started humping the one cat! But maybe that was a dominance thing but he'd groom her, sleep on the couch with her, etc. so maybe not. Just heart breaking, I couldn't even look at him for days after he killed that tom cat, I was so angry at him then sad because I thought if I can't change him we'd have a decision to make about his future.

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