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Cat Killer :-(

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  • #81
    I'm a cat and dog person. I had a lovely Boxer who had two cats of her own...she had no prey drive, loved to chase the cats but only with permission. The cats would look at the wall wondering about all the interesting things to see while she was put "on sit"....I'd give the command, 'OK" and the cats would take off with her right behind...usually running over them as she was faster going downstairs. She was a great member of the family.

    BUT....if one of the cats decided she didn't want to use the litter box and preferred the carpet...bye bye kitty. If the dog had bit a kid or ever growled at my wife...bye bye dog. Some behaviours are deal killers.

    Cat killing...no excuse no matter what their prey drive.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

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    • #82
      Originally posted by Huntertwo View Post
      Thank you - It IS the irresponsible owner who is either too cheap or too lazy to spay/neuter their cats. Left outside to fend for themselves and reproduce, starts the Feral population.

      It infuriates me to no end, when the poor cats have to suffer because of useless people....
      We have aprox 12 we are feeding. Alle the females are spayed and we are working on and close to getting all males neutered. Cost is on $10. Our local Humane League does them. They have a grant though Petsmart Charities. Food runs about $10 a week. Our goal is to get the group size down, fix them all and to socialize as many as we can. We found homes for some and always looking for new homes.

      You don't want to relocate, find homes and reduce the size of a colony with fertile females. They start going into heat more often if the sense a reductions. Spay/neuter release works in controlling population.

      We have a dog who is friend and mother to most. They idea of not being able to control one's dog for me is troubling. Ask any hunter a good working dog is not a killer and is controllable.


      Next time one of you with dogs with killer instinct goes to renew your house insurance, let your agent know and watch your insurance go though the roof.
      Last edited by 7HL; May. 4, 2011, 10:45 PM.
      The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

      Comment


      • #83
        Killing cats is not just 'acting like a dog.' It's acting like a particular type of dog - one who likes to kill things. Not chase, not stalk, but kill. Because many dogs love to chase, and plenty love to stalk; far fewer like to kill. I'm not a cat person, but I really resent the slur on dogs when it's claimed that it's just natural for dogs to do vicious, pointlessly violent things like kill cats. Dogs aren't domesticated wolves, they're dogs. They don't just naturally want to kill anything small enough to not pose a real risk. That claim is just a way to push the idea that it's acceptable for some dogs to just attack and kill other animals. That same sort of attitude - the "Oh, heck, it's nature for a big, strong dog with powerful instincts to chase, grab, and kill a smaller, lighter animal" - is applied to dog attacks on other dogs, particularly small ones. Somehow, the behavior of vicious dogs is always excused on the grounds that they have these impressive instincts which are too powerful to be controlled, and a little collateral damage in the form of dead cats and yappy dogs is to be expected.

        I call bullshit. Any dog that likes to kill things needs to either be a professional huntin' dawg living deep in the mountains or bayou, super-managed by a hyper-responsible owner, or dead in a vet's office before it eats someone else's pet.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by vacation1 View Post
          Any dog that likes to kill things needs to either be a professional huntin' dawg living deep in the mountains or bayou, super-managed by a hyper-responsible owner, or dead in a vet's office before it eats someone else's pet.
          Really?
          So all those people who have terriers that they use to kill rodents and such should have to send them off or put them down?

          And it is some how OK for cats to hunt and stalk and kill things but not OK for dogs?

          Comment


          • #85
            vacation

            if you're going to make statements with such conviction, either back them up with citations to reliable sources or qualify that you're merely expressing YOUR opinion.

            as pointed out by others, terriers were bred to work alone, not with humans, to rid of rodents. on the other hand, hunting breeds were bred to work with and under direction of the human. that's why they're so much more bidable than terriers. your generalizations fail to take into consideration the purpose behind the various breeds.

            until i got my first terrier with high prey drive, i thought of myself as a pretty good trainer. i no longer think that...
            http://www.eponashoe.com/
            TQ(Trail Queen) \"Learn How to Ride or Move Over!!\" Clique

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            • #86
              Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
              Really?


              And it is some how OK for cats to hunt and stalk and kill things but not OK for dogs?
              excellent point.
              http://www.eponashoe.com/
              TQ(Trail Queen) \"Learn How to Ride or Move Over!!\" Clique

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              • #87
                I agree that some breeds have an inbred prey drive, and it boils down to whether the dog can control that drive or not. If not, it's up to the owner to take precautions to protect other animals. It must have been awful for the op to be a guest at a clinic when her dog killed one of their cats. I would have felt terrible.

                We took in a Min Pin that had an amazing prey drive that was sparked by any kind of fleeing motion from small animals around her. She loved our cats and got along really well with them and our other dog, but even after years of living with them, she would lunge at the cats if they bolted past her. Typical cats, they would stalk up behind her, then bolt past just for the fun of the chase because they knew that she had the chase in her but fortunately not the kill instinct. It was always funny to watch Sushi chase the cats out of the room, then come flying back for refuge on someone's lap in with a wild cat in hot pursuit.

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                • #88
                  neighbors dog

                  I have some neighbors whose kids used to come visit me when they saw me out. They would always allow their two dogs to come with them. Drove my dogs and I crazy. I always told them that they were welcomed but their dogs were not. One of their dogs was fine but the other would threaten my dogs and my barn cat. One day, she tried to go after my barn cat. My two Aussie's cornered her against the fence and wouldn't let her past. I told the kid THAT was why she was not allowed. They didn't bring her again but didn't take that theatening behavior very seiously until she attacked another neighbors Jack Russell.

                  They kept her up for a while but then got a third dog they say is part wolf (who knows what he really is). Anyway, yet another neighbor found these two in their cattle field and asked that they be kept out. Neighbor locked up the one that was the "leader of the pack." Short time later, I started seeing the "part wolf" dog near my fence line. Sunday, there was a dog barking and attempting to chase my horses at 3:00 a.m. When I went out, it headed back to their house. So now, two of their three dogs has to be kept up. (fortunately, they are trying to cooperate)

                  Everyone around here has barn cats and they all have a job to do. We all know that if the cat wanders to their property (which the cats seem to know not to do) and their dog gets it then it's not the neighbors fault. If their dogs ever come back to my place and theatens my cat again though, that's a different story.

                  As far as my dogs, anything that doesn't belong gets chased off the property. Once I say an animal is ok, it's their responsibility to look after it. Love my Aussie's.
                  Last edited by Holly Jeanne; May. 5, 2011, 02:12 PM.
                  Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Goethe

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                    I'm a cat and dog person. I had a lovely Boxer who had two cats of her own...she had no prey drive, loved to chase the cats but only with permission. The cats would look at the wall wondering about all the interesting things to see while she was put "on sit"....I'd give the command, 'OK" and the cats would take off with her right behind...usually running over them as she was faster going downstairs. She was a great member of the family.

                    BUT....if one of the cats decided she didn't want to use the litter box and preferred the carpet...bye bye kitty. If the dog had bit a kid or ever growled at my wife...bye bye dog. Some behaviours are deal killers.

                    Cat killing...no excuse no matter what their prey drive.
                    Really? A cat doesn't use a litter box and you kick it to the curb? Good luck when you are old and need a diaper, wonder who's going to take care of you. My kitty was 50/50 on litterbox use the last few years. She was PTS three weeks ago with cancer, and I don't regret keeping her a second.
                    .

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by vacation1 View Post
                      Killing cats is not just 'acting like a dog.' It's acting like a particular type of dog - one who likes to kill things. Not chase, not stalk, but kill. Because many dogs love to chase, and plenty love to stalk; far fewer like to kill. I'm not a cat person, but I really resent the slur on dogs when it's claimed that it's just natural for dogs to do vicious, pointlessly violent things like kill cats. Dogs aren't domesticated wolves, they're dogs. They don't just naturally want to kill anything small enough to not pose a real risk. That claim is just a way to push the idea that it's acceptable for some dogs to just attack and kill other animals. That same sort of attitude - the "Oh, heck, it's nature for a big, strong dog with powerful instincts to chase, grab, and kill a smaller, lighter animal" - is applied to dog attacks on other dogs, particularly small ones. Somehow, the behavior of vicious dogs is always excused on the grounds that they have these impressive instincts which are too powerful to be controlled, and a little collateral damage in the form of dead cats and yappy dogs is to be expected.

                      I call bullshit. Any dog that likes to kill things needs to either be a professional huntin' dawg living deep in the mountains or bayou, super-managed by a hyper-responsible owner, or dead in a vet's office before it eats someone else's pet.
                      My dog is being 'vicious and violent'. He's being a dog. Yes, he likes to kill (and eat if we aren't around) squirrels, mice, chipmunks, groundhogs, and such. Not cats though. My other dog carries around small animals (alive and unharmed) untill we make her drop them. Dog #1 isn't vicious, he just has prey drive. That doesn't make him agressive, he is great with dogs, people, cats, horses, etc. He's even good around my rats as long as I tell him leave it. But a small fleeing rodent is just WAY to exciting.

                      BTW, dog #1 is a hound/BC- high prey drive, great sense of smell, smart, and FAST.
                      dog#2 is a lab. Stupid, poor sense of small, soft mouth.

                      Like it or not, dogs are predators. So are cats. Why are barn cats just being cats, but a hunting dog is vicious? That makes no sense at all.
                      .

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by vacation1 View Post
                        Killing cats is not just 'acting like a dog.' It's acting like a particular type of dog - one who likes to kill things. Not chase, not stalk, but kill. Because many dogs love to chase, and plenty love to stalk; far fewer like to kill. I'm not a cat person, but I really resent the slur on dogs when it's claimed that it's just natural for dogs to do vicious, pointlessly violent things like kill cats. Dogs aren't domesticated wolves, they're dogs. They don't just naturally want to kill anything small enough to not pose a real risk. That claim is just a way to push the idea that it's acceptable for some dogs to just attack and kill other animals. That same sort of attitude - the "Oh, heck, it's nature for a big, strong dog with powerful instincts to chase, grab, and kill a smaller, lighter animal" - is applied to dog attacks on other dogs, particularly small ones. Somehow, the behavior of vicious dogs is always excused on the grounds that they have these impressive instincts which are too powerful to be controlled, and a little collateral damage in the form of dead cats and yappy dogs is to be expected.

                        I call bullshit. Any dog that likes to kill things needs to either be a professional huntin' dawg living deep in the mountains or bayou, super-managed by a hyper-responsible owner, or dead in a vet's office before it eats someone else's pet.
                        I call BS on your post then = )

                        I will admit that there are many breeds and many individuals out there who see absolutely no need to chase or hunt or kill small furries. However, there are many breeds and individuals that do feel the need to kill small furries because WE humans have made them that way. We have bred some breeds for years (some for decades, some for centuries) to have an almost insatiable drive to hunt and KILL small furries (think of many many terriers out there). It is COMPLETELY unfair (a "slur" perhaps?) to label those dogs as "vicious" when they are otherwise completely "normal" dogs.

                        It is, however, completely fair to expect the OWNER to understand these drives and train the dog accordingly. You are right on that point. BUT just because a dog has a high prey drive doesn't mean the owner has to be some sort of superhuman to manage it, or as you said: "super-managed by a hyper-responsible owner."

                        Perhaps because I have a greyhound and know a lot of other people with greyhounds, I am more accepting of the prey drive issue? Greyhounds are one of the most ancient breeds and have been bred for centuries to hunt mostly independent of their humans. Only in recent history for the breed (the last hundred years) has that been developed into a track racing type dog (and those STILL chase a small furry).

                        I have a cat-friendly pup because I have two wonderful kitties that I could not (would not) live without. However, there are thousands of greyhounds out there that are absolutely positively NOT small animal safe (meaning, will chase and KILL) that have loving homes and make wonderful pets. These owners take necessary precautions, but it hardly requires any sort of hyper-vigilant superhuman to implement these precautions.

                        I'm shocked at how hard some people seem to think it is to keep a dog with a high prey drive from killing other animals. Sure, accidents happen like with the OP, but now that she knows, it's completely possible to manage successfully for the rest of the dog's life.

                        I mean, my dog is cat safe inside, but I would NEVER trust her around one (or a small dog) that darted past her if she were loose. So guess what, she's not allowed off the lead unless we are in a safe enclosed area. If we are in a place like that and a small furry comes in, she gets leashed and removed from the situation. It's really not that hard to keep a dog leashed or in your own safe place. Many owners with reactive greyhounds will even muzzle them at the vet's office as an added precaution to being on the lead. It is truly NO SWEAT. Dogs can live a very fulfilled life being on a leash when they are on outings.

                        And, though it would upset me as an animal lover big and small, if a stray cat wondered into a securely fenced in back yard and got killed, well, that's hardly the dog's fault. Especially in the case of a dog who has been hardwired by US to do just that (terriers, for example, many greyhounds, etc.)

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                          BUT....if one of the cats decided she didn't want to use the litter box and preferred the carpet...bye bye kitty. If the dog had bit a kid or ever growled at my wife...bye bye dog. Some behaviours are deal killers.
                          Yikes! I agree with other posters that that's a little harsh. Rehoming (not putting to sleep at first occurance) a dog that you shows you a level of aggression that makes you uncomfortable is completely fair - and best since you are unlikely to be able to train a dog that scares you. It's odd to compare that to something like litter box issues though...

                          There is always some sort of underlying reason for our animals' behavior. For something as non-life threatening as litter box problems (VASTLY different than a dog you think might harm your family), it's really your responsibility to figure out what's causing it. 50% of the time it's caused by something the owner is doing or not doing and the other 50% of the time it's a health issue.

                          Bathroom issues are probably the number 1 issue animals get kicked to the curb, and it infuriates me because it is nearly ALWAYS something the owner is doing wrong or a health problem the animal CANNOT help.

                          So again: man, that's harsh...

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by bort84 View Post

                            Bathroom issues are probably the number 1 issue animals get kicked to the curb, and it infuriates me because it is nearly ALWAYS something the owner is doing wrong or a health problem the animal CANNOT help.

                            ...
                            Except for my Kitty (RIP) who just preferred to go wherever she felt like (mostly beds). We tried lots of things (vet included), but basically just dealt with. What's a little cat pee next to mountains of horse poop? She was the most gorgeous, loving cat, who also had a howl like a dying elephant sitting on top of a dying rabbit. She was a C.A.T in every sense of the word.

                            I would never dream of giving her up for being herself. She was the best cat I've owned and I miss her I can't imagine tossing her away just because of some potty problems.
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              My ridgebacks lived with cats but were cat killers. There seemed to be a rule; inside cats okay outside cats dead. I just had to manage the situation. When I'm not home my cats and dog are separated. My dogs are Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Sighthounds have very high prey drives. There are other dog types that also have the prey drive.

                              Try not to anthropomorphize - they are dogs.

                              Paula
                              He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Oddly enough my cat- marmot- raccoon- fox- deer- killing dog was also the most friendly, trustworthy dog I have ever owned. We did therapy work with him with aged people. He loved people. He would stick his head into car windows and get fawned over. I currently have a herding dog who has no kill instinct, but I wouldn't trust him with a stranger and try to keep strangers from touching him. Proven cat eater or possible people eater? which do you prefer?

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post

                                  Try not to anthropomorphize - they are dogs.

                                  Paula
                                  From reading your posts on other threads, I thought I'd probably like you.

                                  But this one seals the deal.
                                  I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                    Really?
                                    So all those people who have terriers that they use to kill rodents and such should have to send them off or put them down?

                                    And it is some how OK for cats to hunt and stalk and kill things but not OK for dogs?
                                    The only thing with that is though, rodents, among other things, are considered vermin (destructive, disease carrying pests). And I do realize that some people have pet rats, but I'm talking about wild, non domestic animals.

                                    Cats are considered pets. When a dog kills my pet, it's personal. Bye-bye doggie!

                                    I always have to wonder, if the tables were turned, what the reaction would be. Say if a larger dog killed a wee small dog, if it would be the "dog just being dog" thing, or the reaction that dog-killer needs to go??
                                    I LOVE my Chickens!

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      When you say dogs should not kill small furry creatures, and you'd put one down if it did, I'd like to see how long one of those would stay alive on its own. Preditory animals - canines being one of them - have since their inception, hunted, chased and killed other animals. That's how they live. Even your wonderful kitty, (if left its claws) will hunt and kill. That's what they do. Would you put your kitty down if it killed a bird or a mouse or a gopher?

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by Megaladon View Post
                                        The only thing with that is though, rodents, among other things, are considered vermin (destructive, disease carrying pests). And I do realize that some people have pet rats, but I'm talking about wild, non domestic animals.

                                        Cats are considered pets. When a dog kills my pet, it's personal. Bye-bye doggie!

                                        I always have to wonder, if the tables were turned, what the reaction would be. Say if a larger dog killed a wee small dog, if it would be the "dog just being dog" thing, or the reaction that dog-killer needs to go??
                                        It's not 'personal'. Its a dog, they don't do things to spite you. They do them b/c they are DOGS! To a dog, a small fluffy thing is a small fluffy thing, regardless of what YOU think. Besides, not all cats are pets. Many are pests/strays. So those are okay because they are pests, right?

                                        And no, I wouldn't put down a dog for killing a small dog. Many high prey dogs will kill a small dog, especially if they haven't been around them to know its a dog. I know of one, and have heard of other, greyhounds who see small dogs as prey. The owners don't take it personally, they see it for what it is and deal with it.

                                        ETA: thi isn't too say I wouldn't be devastated if my dog killed ANYONE's pet, be it dog, cat, rat or goldfish. But I wouldn't blame the pet, I would blame the situation and work to keep said dog out of a situation in which killing wasn't possible
                                        .

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by bort84 View Post
                                          Yikes! I agree with other posters that that's a little harsh. Rehoming (not putting to sleep at first occurance) a dog that you shows you a level of aggression that makes you uncomfortable is completely fair - and best since you are unlikely to be able to train a dog that scares you. It's odd to compare that to something like litter box issues though...

                                          There is always some sort of underlying reason for our animals' behavior. For something as non-life threatening as litter box problems (VASTLY different than a dog you think might harm your family), it's really your responsibility to figure out what's causing it. 50% of the time it's caused by something the owner is doing or not doing and the other 50% of the time it's a health issue.

                                          Bathroom issues are probably the number 1 issue animals get kicked to the curb, and it infuriates me because it is nearly ALWAYS something the owner is doing wrong or a health problem the animal CANNOT help.

                                          So again: man, that's harsh...
                                          I have a very elderly cat who urinates in the box, but pooping is a different issue. Sometimes in the box, sometimes, not.

                                          Luckily we have hardwood and tile floors, so it is very easy to clean.
                                          But, as long as she is eating and getting around fine, I could never ever think of putting her down.
                                          MnToBe Twinkle Star: "Twinkie"
                                          http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...wo/009_17A.jpg

                                          Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

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