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Cat Killer :-(

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  • #61
    My dog is a "potential" cat killer - meaning, he's never killed a cat, that I know of - but he has an extremely high prey drive and was caught with my friend's cat in his mouth - but dropped him when yelled at.

    That being said, I keep my dog away from cats - period. My dog is never off leash outside of his own yard and a dog show, so it's generally not an issue.

    But my neighbors have been warned- your cat gets in my yard while my dog is out - I am not responsible for what happens. Sorry. I am not a cat person but I don't wish any animal any harm at all. But I also don't believe that cats should be allowed to roam freely through neighborhoods.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
      Jesus...I'd be beside myself if any dog of mine killed not one, but two cats. Sorry, but that dog would be on its way to doggie heaven.
      Why would you put down a dog that is just following his instincts?
      We do not have an overpopulation of dogs, we have an under population of responsible dog owners!!!

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      • #63
        I keep my cats indoors, and my dogs leave them alone. They're never in a position where someone else's dogs could get them. (And someone trained Puff on the difference at some point, I would assume Steppin Easy's parents when he was theirs, because he WILL attack a small animal that is not a cat. The only reason I didn't let him kill the possum he snatched out from under a bush was I didn't want him getting worms or who knows what from the carcass. Yet he is uncaninely tolerant of the indoor cats and deeply concerned about kittens from the neighbors--he tried to pick one up by the scruff and bring it home while ignoring the adult outdoor cats. No, I don't know what he thought we were going to do with a kitten, but it was alone and this worried him.)

        Barn cats at my parents? We feed and vet them, and one's made it to 10 and another's coming six, but we accept most likely something's going to kill them or they'll get hit by a car or something. They live outdoors. That's what happens if they aren't smart. They either learn where to stay (the ten-year-old), to be quick about crossing the road (the six-year-old), or they don't. We'd still shoot a feral/stray dog harassing them, but that's general principle, same as if it were bothering any other stock. If they wander off our property or out into the woods where we can't see and something gets them? That's what happens to outdoor cats. Another will turn up to take its place. (To the point we've only-half-kidding accused the neighbors of dropping unwanted kittens off at night in our yard.)

        I wouldn't leave my dogs unattended in a strange place, let alone off a leash, even though neither has ever hurt another domestic animal that I know of. Shock collar/negative reinforcement might or might not help, but mostly I'd just say don't take him visiting where he might run into cats. Even though most outdoor cats will get killed by something, it doesn't have to be your dog. My BO's dogs are not allowed out of their fenced backyard into the barn area because they'll hunt the cats. So they aren't allowed near the cats. They don't seem to suffer for not going everywhere on the property. Happy dogs, happy cats, and never the twain shall meet.
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        • #64
          Originally posted by Kryswyn View Post
          It is YOUR responsibility however to keep your dog away from cats. He either doesn't go to the barn, or stays crated in comfortable surroundings while there. Same thing at your mother's.
          This. (Which it sounds like the OP is already planning on doing.


          One of my dogs came to me with a cat history. She killed a kitten in her foster home. (She is a greyhound, kitten ran, she chased, for some reason kittens do not do well when caught and shook.)
          I do not see why a mistake that was the fault of a human should lead to the death of the dog.
          I do not have cats in my house and I do not let any of my dogs run loose.

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          • #65
            But my neighbors have been warned- your cat gets in my yard while my dog is out - I am not responsible for what happens. Sorry. I am not a cat person but I don't wish any animal any harm at all. But I also don't believe that cats should be allowed to roam freely through neighborhoods.
            Good thing you don't live in PA, or your dog could get shot.



            http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2522746/posts

            "Any person may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding or killing any domestic animal; wounding or killing other dogs, cats or household pets; or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings, whether or not such dog bears the license tag required by the provisions of this act," states the law. "There shall be no liability on such persons in damages or otherwise for such killing."
            Notice there is no restriction on who's property the animals are on.

            Also side note. Not longer ago a licensed hunter shot a cat in a neighbor running loose. He said he saw it stalking a Cardinal. Under laws of this State, hunters are to protect "protected animals" from harm. That includes most birds.

            We care for and outside colony of cats. They exist because of humans irresponsibly. First believing that cats are meant to be outside. Second for not spaying and neutering them. There is also the fact that many put cats out to let them fend for themselves never thinking about feeding or care. Hungry cats attack birds and get into stuff to find food.

            The common element in this is us humans. Not having our dogs under control and the dumping of animals, cats.
            The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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            • #66
              i sympathize

              i also note the life's irony - i, a cat lover and owner, ended up with a dog who is a cat killer. i thought i could train it out of her but either i'm not that good of a trainer or she was too far gone when i got her.

              my dog has an extremely high prey drive which got reinforced when she was allowed to roam free as a young pup (before i adopted her) with a pack of other dogs.

              i have to say your dog sounds more controllable since you say that your stare can deter him from attacking. nothing can deter my dog from attacking a cat except a short leash and a muzzle. so maybe with some dedication you can train him although i'd be hesitant to ever trust a dog like that in presence of cats.
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              • #67
                Gosh, my sweet lab would have been PTS if any of you owned him. He is a car chaser, cat attacker (he attacked one of my barn cats but it was uninjured,thankfully) and can be a bit aggressive to other dominant male dogs. I keep him leashed in public and at home he stays in our fenced yard. I have zero issues since he is unable to run loose.

                He sounds like a nut right? We got him from the shelter as an adult. He is a sweet, calm gorgeous dog. He is a wonderful snuggler and loves to give kisses. PTS,no, but I do manage him in public and we have never had an issue in the 5 years I owned him since I became responsible.

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                • #68
                  I have cats, so clearly a cat-aggressive dog would never make it into my home (at least knowingly), but even if I didn't have cats, I don't think I could handle having one that was. I'd be far too nervous thinking of the "whatifs" and I would feel terrible if I was responsible, albeit indirectly, for the death of another domestic animal. I wouldn't be too thrilled if my pet killed a wild animal, either.

                  That being said, my dad's one dog, a rottie/lab/aussie/indiscriminate other mix, thinks if you bring it in or around the house, it's under her "domain of care." She's very motherly. Loves puppies, kittens, anything smaller than her. When the most recent kitten we had there hissed and puffed-up at her, she came to me whining like "why won't it play with me?!" However, she HAS killed groundhogs with the help of her accomplice, my dad's other dog, an aussie/elkhound mix. Who is also totally fine with small animals around the house. Neither would kill an animal in our presence. The latter once found a few-day-old fawn in the tall grass @ the border of the yard and picked it up, which caused it to bleat and as soon as someone yelled at her, she dropped it and came back. I guess with no one to tell them not to, though, they'll kill.

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                  • #69
                    Actually, 7H, I would bet that in court that law would NOT supercede the law that you cannot just shoot onto someone else's property without permission and if you entered the property without permission, you're trespassing. Rules governing use of firearms (especially if it's literally a backyard) > rules regarding dealing with dogs. In city limits? Congrats, you go to jail on a weapons charge. "No liability" is not going to cover a felony weapons violation. Plus if the dog's owner is home you can get a bunch of OTHER issues for entering their property without permission with a lethal weapon. They might slap your wrist if it was a dog attacking a CHILD, but over a cat, especially if you were trespassing on the dog owners property to do it? I hope you have a REALLY good lawyer.

                    (Not to mention, I fail to see how allowing a cat to roam at large DOESN'T put the onus entirely on the cat owner. In a lot of towns, that's actually violating leash laws, that people typically ignore about cats but which DO exist. If you let your cat out, you're putting it at risk. If it leaves your property, other people are not responsible for locking up their animals to protect one you're being reckless with. What if the cat crosses a paddock and there's a mule in there who stomps it to death? Is the mule's owner at fault? The cat wasn't supposed to be where it was.)
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                    • #70
                      Since it's so easy to control dogs (leashes, fences, training, muzzles) I don't see any reason why one needs to kill a dog who just acts like well, a dog. Ok, maybe a few dogs exhibit very disturbingly dangerous behavior, in which case PTS is the only responsible option, but most can be controlled. Of course it would help tremendously if cat owners weren't so irresponsible. I'm not at all sorry about the destructive cats we've cleared out. Not at all in favor of "maintaining" destructive feral cat colonies either. Do the birds a favor and wipe them out. Keep your cats on your own property, and when you take your dog off your property keep him under firm control. It's just common sense.

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                      • #71
                        Wow, lots of responses here to remind me why I would never let more then half of the posters on this bb adopt a dog. Between the sss thread and this one some of the responses are truly disturbing. Dogs have been killing/chasing cats since ummmm forever. Not all dogs do but some will. I know if a cat comes into my fenced yard it will be toast in 5.0 seconds. Are my dogs viscious? No. Should they be pts? Good lord no! Are they exhibiting behaviour normal for MOST dogs? Yes. BTW they are all labs. Would I feel horrible if my dogs killed a cat?. Yes, but if I had done my job of having them safely contained and/or on a leash then I would not feel guilty.

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                        • #72
                          it's because people have this bizarre mental viewpoint about dogs- many people have really unrealistic expectations about dogs and dog behavior.
                          They are predators/scavengers. They don't speak english. They won't behave the way you want them to without extensive training.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by wendy View Post
                            Since it's so easy to control dogs (leashes, fences, training, muzzles) I don't see any reason why one needs to kill a dog who just acts like well, a dog. Ok, maybe a few dogs exhibit very disturbingly dangerous behavior, in which case PTS is the only responsible option, but most can be controlled. Of course it would help tremendously if cat owners weren't so irresponsible. I'm not at all sorry about the destructive cats we've cleared out. Not at all in favor of "maintaining" destructive feral cat colonies either. Do the birds a favor and wipe them out. Keep your cats on your own property, and when you take your dog off your property keep him under firm control. It's just common sense.
                            I'm another who's none too fond of the feral cat colony in my neighborhood. One of the neighbors feeds them (along with possums and raccoons who've learned where the buffet is). But trap, vaccinate, and sterilize? Oh no. Too much work. One of HER neighbors tried to poison them (which left me speechless at the cruelty) and THAT led to a confrontation worthy of an episode of "Cops".

                            I've put a lot of work into teaching my dogs that we do. Not. Chase the cats. If I see them even thinking about it, a sharp "NO!" puts the brakes on that. However, we recently had one of these feral cats stalking us on our evening walk (and my two are 50+ pounds, not little at all), hissing and spitting and snarling - I did start to wonder if it was rabid. It ignored my shouting at it, stomping my feet - it sounds awful, but I finally ended up throwing rocks at it to make it leave us alone. Dogs were aces, though.

                            I'm not going to add to those chiding the OP. After reading her responses here, I'm pretty confident that there will not be a repeat episode.

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                            • #74
                              I could never have a cat-killing dog. Period. I have too many cats and have a lifelong love affair with them. If a dog of mine had such tendencies, the dog would go. Period.

                              Would I SSS the dog? No. I might euthanize if all placement efforts failed, but I would try to place the dog somewhere where no cats were, with full disclosure. I would also, in the case of a puppy I had been raising myself, when I recognized one that was too intent on cats and just wasn't getting cat socialization in spite of training, rehome that dog before it came down to being a cat killer. But no, I will not keep a cat-killing dog. The cats were here first. And I told the folks that who gave me a (full grown and massive - 125 pounds) dog a year ago who dislikes other dogs. Other dogs aren't an issue for me, as there aren't any here (though I am careful to always have my attention on her just in case, and she is not out with me when my attention is divided, nor is she taken off the property). Cats are a huge issue for me, and if I have to vote on who stays, the cats win. They swore she was cat safe, and I believe it at this point, having seen her for a year around them.

                              But I will never keep a dog on my property who is unfriendly to cats or acts high prey upon them. If today, after a full year, Hannah turned aggressive on a cat, then today, I would be looking for a new home for her. I realize it's an instinct, and I wouldn't kill the dog. But yes, the dog would lose their home over that.

                              All this assumes my dog vs. my cats on my property. If somebody else's dog loose comes to the property and is in the middle of going after my cats here, yes, absolutely I'd SSS.
                              Last edited by dressagetraks; May. 4, 2011, 05:13 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by marta View Post
                                i also note the life's irony - i, a cat lover and owner, ended up with a dog who is a cat killer. i thought i could train it out of her but either i'm not that good of a trainer or she was too far gone when i got her.

                                my dog has an extremely high prey drive which got reinforced when she was allowed to roam free as a young pup (before i adopted her) with a pack of other dogs.

                                i have to say your dog sounds more controllable since you say that your stare can deter him from attacking. nothing can deter my dog from attacking a cat except a short leash and a muzzle. so maybe with some dedication you can train him although i'd be hesitant to ever trust a dog like that in presence of cats.

                                marta- this was the same life story of the dog that I put down for her predatory instincts. she was born a stray and ran with mom and siblings until she was old enough to "puppy nab" be and rehome. I got her from the woman who trapped her and her brothers. The day she came home to me she had gotten attacked by another loose male dog that frequentened where she was caught.

                                On top of that I think her mom had probably been a fighting dog that was dumped. really a shame because she was SOOO sweet.
                                If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.

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                                • #76
                                  people are not careful enough when they acquire dogs- most dogs who get dumped at shelters were acquired for really bad reasons in the first place. If you own other animals, like cats, horse, goats, or gerbils, you need to be really picky about the dogs you acquire. And there is no shame attached to rehoming an animal FOR ITS OWN GOOD or for the good of the ANIMAL THAT WAS HERE FIRST. I rehomed my cat when I realized my very predatory dog was going to eat it at some point when I wasn't looking- I could control the dog when present, but when not present? I'm sure the cat is glad I did- rehomed for its own good. Yes the cat was here first but I'm not a cat person and dogs always come first with me. If I ever acquire a dog that really doesn't get along with the other dogs it will get re-homed.

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                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                                    Actually, 7H, I would bet that in court that law would NOT supercede the law that you cannot just shoot onto someone else's property without permission and if you entered the property without permission, you're trespassing. Rules governing use of firearms (especially if it's literally a backyard) > rules regarding dealing with dogs. In city limits?
                                    You would think... but the case of the hunter shooting a cat going after the cardinal was in a backyard. Local Police tried to get the guy. Hunters group and gun groups sited the law about protected birds and the guy got off free and clear.
                                    The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by 7HL View Post

                                      Also side note. Not longer ago a licensed hunter shot a cat in a neighbor running loose. He said he saw it stalking a Cardinal. Under laws of this State, hunters are to protect "protected animals" from harm. That includes most birds.

                                      We care for and outside colony of cats. They exist because of humans irresponsibly. First believing that cats are meant to be outside. Second for not spaying and neutering them. There is also the fact that many put cats out to let them fend for themselves never thinking about feeding or care. Hungry cats attack birds and get into stuff to find food.

                                      The common element in this is us humans. Not having our dogs under control and the dumping of animals, cats.
                                      Thank you - It IS the irresponsible owner who is either too cheap or too lazy to spay/neuter their cats. Left outside to fend for themselves and reproduce, starts the Feral population.

                                      It infuriates me to no end, when the poor cats have to suffer because of useless people....
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                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by wendy View Post
                                        I'm not at all sorry about the destructive cats we've cleared out. Not at all in favor of "maintaining" destructive feral cat colonies either. Do the birds a favor and wipe them out.
                                        Wow..... Do you really think it is the cat's fault it is in a crappy predicament?? Probably tossed out, not neutered nor spayed, hungry, no shelter?
                                        Try having a little bit of sympathy.

                                        Do the birds a favor and stop bulldozing hundreds of wooded acres for a 50 acre subdivision, or for a 50 acre pasture.

                                        Birds are hard to catch and many cats won't expend the energy when a mouse or mole is much easier to catch.
                                        MnToBe Twinkle Star: "Twinkie"
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                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by wendy
                                          it's because people have this bizarre mental viewpoint about dogs- many people have really unrealistic expectations about dogs and dog behavior.
                                          They are predators/scavengers. They don't speak english. They won't behave the way you want them to without extensive training.
                                          This -- absolutely. I've had GSDs with insta-drop downs even in pursuit of something interesting. I would never, ever, expect the same of a rescued greyhound -- or a Jack! I certainly wouldn't euth it for doing what is natural -- I would recognize instincts, train what I could, and manage the rest.

                                          People really have silly ideas about what dogs "know" and "don't know." The viral "guilty dog" video is a case in point.

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