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Cat Killer :-(

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  • #41
    My dogs, who all get along with MY cats just fine, thank you, have killed a stray cat in our yard. I don't know which one did it, I had three dogs and a dead cat in the yard. There was no blood on anyone. They have never acted predatory towards my five cats, they all sleep together on the various beds, and as a rule, the cats boss the dogs around.

    My dogs are obedience trained, have rock solid recalls (well, except the boxer, he's just never allowed off leash), and will call off squirrels or chipmunks if they decide to chase them. I don't let them off leash and unattended anywhere. Much less if there are other animals around.

    Dogs are a predatory species. If given the right circumstances, any dog will kill another animal. It's up to me, as a responsible dog owner, to make sure that never happens.

    I felt bad about the cat in the yard, but I refuse to be responsible for someone elses straying animal in my fenced yard.

    If I were you, I'd start training your boxer to watch you. And just keep him leashed and under control.

    Comment


    • #42
      It is pretty simple.

      If the cat "acts like prey" and runs -- dogs won't distinguish it from a groundhog, or any other "acceptable" prey. In that case, all bets are off.

      If a cat stands up for itself (we have a wonderful cat at our shelter that "cat tests" our dogs) and the dog backs off -- that is a great sign that a dog can have respect for a cat. Nothing is a guarantee -- all dogs don't get along, and all people don't get along. "Training" -- even with puppies -- isn't foolproof. Each animal interaction should be closely monitored initially until you get a pretty good sense of how they will regard one another (certainly the case for horses in turnout as well!)

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      • #43
        Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post
        Dogs are a completely different story. Dogs are loose, dogs are unobserved/unmonitored, etc.

        A horse who chases a dog out of their paddock, or kicks if it gets too close in the aisle, is completely different than a dog who will chase down a cat and kill it, in the house, in the yard, at a barn, at a family's home, etc.
        Why? A horse's 'yard' is its pasture. Horse's can and have killed dogs in barns, under saddle, etc. One stomp or kick is just as fast and dealy as a dog snapping an animals back. and yes, I know a horse who will go out of its way to kill a dog, just as viciously as any predator.

        Are you saying its fine for a horse to kill a dog in its pasture if the dog wanders in, but if a cat wanders into a dog's yard, killing it is wrong?

        Please, explain this logic.
        .

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by libgrrl View Post
          If a cat stands up for itself (we have a wonderful cat at our shelter that "cat tests" our dogs) and the dog backs off -- that is a great sign that a dog can have respect for a cat. Nothing is a guarantee -- all dogs don't get along, and all people don't get along. "Training" -- even with puppies -- isn't foolproof.

          My old lab HATES intruding cats, and also polices cat fights inside the house. One nasty tempered cat refused to run. My lab come running up, snarling and barking with her hackles raised. By the time she stopped, the cat was leaning over backwards with dog's chest in its face. She stopped, looked at us, and said "what do I di now?"

          This is the same dog that lets the cats steal her bed and eat her dinner
          .

          Comment


          • #45
            Driver, knowing your now not so perfect dog was a cat killer, you took it unleashed to someone's property where it now killed it's second cat--a cat belonging to someone else? And you're now ringing your hands wondering if a muzzle and short leash is enough? I'm so appalled by your clueless attitude I'm almost speechless.

            Dog owners! You wonder why more and more barn owners refuse to allow dogs on their property any time for any reason. You can thank irresponsible dog owners like the one who owns the cat killer.

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            • #46
              It is not acceptable for a dog to kill a cat, but it is unsurprising.

              Yes, my mother's dog was a wonderful, sweet, loving dog - but he'd never been around cats and she would encourage him to help her dig out gophers, rats and other vermin in her country home. He was an effective ratter/"verminator". There were also feral cats living in the woodpile along with the vermin - he learned that scent along with the undesired animals. I never trusted him with cats, period. Sure, he got corrected when he fixated on a cat. But I'd much rather be safe than sorry, and I'm not testing that training on my cats!

              Poubelle is long gone now. He was a good dog, even if he was sure cats were funny-looking big rats.
              Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom

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              • #47
                I've had several dogs with high prey drive. I personally do not own cats. I've heard many people recommend against the breed that I have if you do have cats, or getting an individual with lower prey drive if that's important to you. Many breeders favor the high prey drive, especially for sport/performance dogs.
                Truly, high prey drive doesn't really bother me. I've never had one of my dogs kill a cat, and I am not sure what any of them would do if they chased and caught a cat. I know which dogs have shown the most interest in cats (and even small, fluffy dogs), and those are the ones that I am most careful with. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't take this dog to the barn or clinics, etc. anymore. You can still take him places - but they need to be places without cats. Horsey places often have cats. Your attention is usually diverted too - even with a short leash - and it just leaves an opening to happen that could be tragic for the cat and for your dog as well. The best way to protect him is to take him other places - the park, trails, etc., places where he doesn't have the opportunity to chase cats and places where you are 100% focused on him. When you are paying attention to your horse, it leaves that opening.
                The good thing here is that he didn't go after YOUR cat - if he had to live with cats, this might be an unsolvable situation. For people that do not have cats, I don't think that this is insurmountable.
                One thing is - if an outdoor cat runs into a fenced yard and gets killed by the dog who lives there, there isn't much you can do about that. But he shouldn't run loose (as most dogs shouldn't) and he probably isn't going to make a great barn dog. Yes, it is possible to improve his training, but you can't, at least in my experience, train the instinct out. If I wanted to have dogs and cats together, I would have low prey drive dogs. I've heard too many stories about high drive dogs who have suddenly killed a cat they had lived with for years. If you don't need to have dogs and cats together, then you just need to train the dog but manage the dog as well. A dog class might be fun for him and give him an outlet. But I wouldn't ever give him access to a cat again. It is absolutely possible to use supervision and management to control this type of situation, in my opinion.

                Comment


                • #48
                  this is a topic close to my heart.

                  I recently decided to put my young bully girl down for killing cats and harrasing/maiming livestock (she had been caught on two seprate occasions with live chickens in her mouth that she dropped when commanded, and she pushed though my daughter into her goat pen and playfully shook her billy goat until I got there and commanded her to OUT the nail in the coffin was when she broke out of a reinforced crate and killed 3 cats of three seperate occasions within a week.

                  She was raised VERY well, perfect recall and GREAT drop it/OUT. Great off lead, just an extremely high prey drive and she would seriously feed off any other dogs behavior, she was an accident waiting to happen. I was heart broken, but she was not a dog that I was comfortable rehoming as she had become incontainable in a crate or fence unless she wanted to stay put > as well as her predatory habits, and with small children it was just an accident in management waiting to happen, so I made the call. It sucks and I miss her every day, but better a day too soon than a moment too late.

                  If I did not have kids that increase the incidence of a management breakdown, I would have kept her and managed the situation. Good luck CDE driver. It's a tough spot.
                  If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.

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                  • #49
                    [QUOTE=Catersun;5579825]I recently decided to put my young bully girl down for killing cats and harrasing/maiming livestock QUOTE]

                    Catersun, I applaud you for making the right choice, no matter how hard it was.
                    Foaling Around www.facebook.com/foalingaround
                    Custom Equestrian Items and Bath Products

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Catersun View Post
                      I recently decided to put my young bully girl down for killing cats and harrasing/maiming livestock
                      .
                      I'm sorry you had to make this choice, it couldn't have been easy I applaud you for trying to make it work and for recognizing that it wouldn't. You did what was right for your family in this situation.
                      .

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Big_Grey_hunter View Post
                        My old lab HATES intruding cats, and also polices cat fights inside the house. One nasty tempered cat refused to run. My lab come running up, snarling and barking with her hackles raised. By the time she stopped, the cat was leaning over backwards with dog's chest in its face. She stopped, looked at us, and said "what do I di now?"

                        This is the same dog that lets the cats steal her bed and eat her dinner
                        Yep...my dalmatian will referee cat fights in the house and break them up...always takes up for the weak male.

                        He plays with the kitten and jumps back when the kitten whacks at him in play.

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                        • #52
                          I admit, I have reading comp. problems..sorry

                          I have reading comp problems..sorry, just reread the OP. I missed the part about this happening at the barn (just saw the feral cat colony part).

                          OP....I do not think you should put your dog down..BUT, I would never take him to the barn again if the barn owner has cats and he has now killed one.

                          What did the barn owner say? I would be surprised if she allowed you to bring him back.

                          Yeah, I would keep him at home and exercise him somewhere other than the barn.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Catersun, you did the right thing.

                            I had a GSD/Golden mix who was the sweetest dog alive, except he killed cats. When I first moved to my house, there was a feral colony loving in the field nearby. They were used to having the run of the place as my house had been vacant for some time. Twice I found dead kittens in the yard, and twice he bit adult cats. One got away, but one had a broken leg and couldn't get back over the fence. Somehow I managed to trap it and take it to the emergency vet to be euthanized. They were really nice about it.

                            When my I got married and my husband moved in, we cross fenced the yard so the dogs couldn't mix with the cats, and that has worked out perfectly. The feral colony moved elsewhere.
                            2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

                            A helmet saved my life.

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                            • #54
                              http://law.psu.edu/_file/aglaw/Dog_Law.pdf

                              Liability for Owning a Dangerous Dog (Type 1 Liability) Section 459-502-A of Article V of Pennsylvania's Dog Law is titled "Dangerous Dogs." According to the act, "The owner or keeper of the dog shall be guilty of the summary offense of harboring a dangerous dog if the district justice finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the following elements of the offense have been proven:"1
                              (A) The dog has done one or more of the following:
                              1. Inflicted severe injury on a human being without provocation on public or private property.2
                              2. Killed or inflicted severe injury on a domestic animal without provocation while off the owner's property.
                              3. Attacked a human being without provocation
                              While some maybe able to live with the label, their insurance company might not.




                              http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2522746/posts

                              "Any person may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding or killing any domestic animal; wounding or killing other dogs, cats or household pets; or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings, whether or not such dog bears the license tag required by the provisions of this act," states the law. "There shall be no liability on such persons in damages or otherwise for such killing."
                              The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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                              • #55
                                I had foxhounds come on my property and kill my old cat. He was sleeping in the garden when they attacked him. I'm locked and loaded for the next dog that tries to pick off one of my cats.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by blackhorsegirl View Post
                                  Driver, knowing your now not so perfect dog was a cat killer, you took it unleashed to someone's property where it now killed it's second cat--a cat belonging to someone else? And you're now ringing your hands wondering if a muzzle and short leash is enough? I'm so appalled by your clueless attitude I'm almost speechless.
                                  Exactly. I'm right there with you.
                                  Originally posted by Martha Drum
                                  ...But I don't want to sit helmetless on my horse while he lies on the ground kicking a ball around without a bridle while Leatherface does an interpretive dance with his chainsaw around us.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Cat, gopher, ground squirrel -if it moves quickly, it is bound to attract the attention of any dog. But those who are prey-driven breeds are the ones who don't stop to think. They react. I have had many dogs over the years, of different breeds. The lab types, the big Rotties, and some of the small, furry, mxed breeds have lived happily with cats, and have left the feral cats alone. One of the terriers and both of my whippets have been overly attracted to the feral cats that wander onto our four acres and unfortunately have caught and killed a couple. I feel badly, but both have been bred to do exactly that - get small, quick, furry creatures. At the same time, I have an earth-mother type Aussie who has 'adopted' (read stolen) five kittens and one baby rabbit from their feral mothers. She loves them, cuddles them, and protects them. And I'm stuck bottle feeding them until I can find them homes. So please don't say all dogs that kill small creatures should be put down. My whippets are the most loving dogs I've ever had. I just take it upon myself to NEVER let them off the leash when away from home.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I have a boxer who was almost a cat killer. I got her at four and she was the sweetest thing to everybody, very quiet, none of the stereotypical boxer energy and I lived with a roommate who had several indoor/outdoor cats. One of the cats had been attacked by the neighbor's rottie-mix a few months earlier and he was fully recovered by that point. When I went to work I left my dog in my room with the door closed, but roomie often let her out to play/whatever without me asking her to (not that I had a problem with it, but I never asked her to let her out to potty or anything like that). One day roomie let her out of the room and went out to the pool while my dog, roomie's two dogs, and the one cat were in the house. She came back in and the dogs were surrounding the cat who was very bloody/looked to be about on his death bed. My dog was the only one who had blood/fur in her mouth or any signs of touching the cat. When she first told me I was devastated, I wanted to get rid of her on the spot and I was very angry that night that it had happened. Luckily the cat in question did live after several very expensive vet bills (he had a punctured lung, hair was missing all over, several bites taken out of his body, etc) that me and roomie split. I did not get rid of the dog because she was awesome in every other capacity, just the sweetest dog. I also noticed that my dog had scratch marks all over her face, chest and legs, so I really had no idea if she was just curiously looking at cat, cat felt cornered, attacked and then dog attacked back (still not acceptable, but a different scenario than dog attacked cat and cat fought back).

                                      I moved out of that house two weeks later and kept my dog crated or on a leash for the duration of the time she was there. We now live on 20 acres with 5 horses and another boxer and she has never showed any desire to chase/kill anything. She's scared of the horses which is how I like it! I would love to have a cat or two but I know I will never be able to - indoor or outdoor/barn cats are out of the question. I don't KNOW if she would ever attack a cat again (my mom has a cat but it stays up stairs separated by doors and baby gates when my dog visits), but I will never take that chance again. I do not bring her to other people's farms (I'm there to ride not dog sit anyway) or houses who have cats other than my mom's.

                                      I don't think euthanizing is the right option. I don't consider it unfair or cruel to euthanize them, because I don't think a dog understands/thinks about his future or whatever, as long as he is treated kindly up until euthanization than it doesn't make a different if he is euthanized at two or fifteen, but I just think there are other options for an other wise very well behaved dog. They are animals and yes, sometimes instinct takes over even in the most well trained animal. I think the pack mentality definitely had something to do with it with my dog. She is 6 and I have had her for two years now and she is an absolute doll, she has been around all types of dogs, babies, children, etc and never even made a threatening facial expression. I will never trust her around a cat though - supervised or not.
                                      "to live is the rarest thing in the world, most people merely exist."

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by CDE Driver View Post
                                        My otherwise perfect dog is a cat killer :-(

                                        The first time was at my MIL's and she feeds feral cats and there are usually 20 or so around and kittens galore. He got a kitten.

                                        Last week I was at a clinic and thought I had him right with me but the second I turned my back he grabbed one right in front of my horse's stall.

                                        Is there anything to be done other than a muzzle and a short leash? If he knows I am watching/paying close attention he will only stare intently. But if I take my focus off of him he will go for them.

                                        Ahhh. My S&R female GSD's only vice - cats and kittens. We have had a few fatalities of barn cats/kittens as well.

                                        I, too, know that intent stare...

                                        Sadly, it is called "prey drive". It is almost impossible to break. It is like telling your cat not to chase mice, or leaves, or birds, or string.

                                        I spay the cats when they are dropped off by ignorant owners, if one slides past - I do everything I can to prevent death. [Sigh]

                                        There is not a lot you can do. I would not euthanize your dog for it. To each his own.....

                                        Take the needed precautions. If you are up for it, an electric hunting collar can be a useful training tool. Zap him when he even LOOKS at a cat. Problem is, as soon as the collar is off, he will be after the cat.

                                        Instinct is hard to defeat...
                                        Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Pennywell Bay View Post
                                          Take the needed precautions. If you are up for it, an electric hunting collar can be a useful training tool. Zap him when he even LOOKS at a cat. Problem is, as soon as the collar is off, he will be after the cat.

                                          Instinct is hard to defeat...
                                          Don't take the collar off or leave the dog out of your control, leash etc. If you can't control the dog then it's rests with the owners.
                                          The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

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