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What breed should we look at?

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    What breed should we look at?

    My daughter plans to add a puppy to their family and is researching what breed or cross of breeds would be best. She has 3 and 5 year old kids so a family friendly type is important. Her husband has allergies to dogs so something a bit more hypoallergenic would be best. She wants to find a reputable/responsible breeder. So wise COTHers, what direction should we look in?

    #2
    How about a standard poodle? I don’t have one (crazy corgi lady here), but I grew to really like them when I worked for a vet that had two. Smart, obedient, good with kids, and non shedding. And don’t worry, that goofy poodle haircut is optional.

    Comment

      Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by sheep with a gun View Post
      How about a standard poodle? I don’t have one (crazy corgi lady here), but I grew to really like them when I worked for a vet that had two. Smart, obedient, good with kids, and non shedding. And don’t worry, that goofy poodle haircut is optional.
      I have tried suggesting a poodle for the reasons you give, yet she doesn’t like the look of purebred poodles. I still think she should consider them without the goofy haircut. 😉

      Comment


        #4
        Try getting her to look at poodles wearing a basic kennel clip or "puppy" clip.



        Rack on!

        Comment


          #5
          I would tell her to eliminate the "breed cross" concept if she's looking for a "reputable/responsible breeder." They are almost entirely mutually exclusive terms.

          Has the dad ever owned a dog before? No breed is "hypoallergenic" - dander is in the skin, saliva and urine. Breeds that don't shed drop dander less quickly but that doesn't mean people aren't still allergic to them. I know someone that placed a German Wirehaired Pointer with a family and had to pick it up a week later because one of the kids was suffering terribly with allergies. The family was heartbroken but it was not going to be manageable; and GWPs are considered to shed less than many breeds.

          What kind of lifestyle do they have; what size do they want; how willing are they to exercise a dog? That makes a huge difference in recommendations - the needs of a Chinese Crested versus a Portuguese Water Dog are as opposite as can be, although both are characterized by the AKC as "hypoallergenic."

          Comment


            #6
            And even specific breeds have their individual characters and personalities that may not match the standard. As in...I had a Shiba Inu. They're famous for hating water (think howling at bath time), and never being trusted off leash. My dog would canoe with us and jump in the water to play. Was great with kids and totally trustworthy off leash. I didn't train these skills, she just offered them. My current Aussie is the most unambitious dog I've had. She just wants to be with you. I do try and keep to an exercise regime, but when it's crummy out, she is happy to hang out in the house and not act nutso. I met her sisters...not so much! So keep an open mind on breed characteristics and make sure to spend as much time as you can with the dog/puppy you're interested in.
            Savor those rides where you feel like a million bucks, because there will be those where you feel like a cheap date...

            Comment


              #7
              She needs to really, really do her homework on this due to several factors:
              Even dogs who are known to be good with older kids may NOT tolerate small kids who may not be gentle, kind or well mannered w/ pets. Many otherwise nice dogs get re-homed due to this.

              What will she do if even the hypoallergenic dog creates problems with her hubby? Re-home the dog? How thoroughly will they
              investigate this prior to getting a dog? Are you sure the hubby really WANTS a dog? I've seen so many people re-home the family dog once everyone got tired of the work and mess they make. And allergies are often the PC reason.

              Your daughter will have to watch the interactions of small kids and new dog like a hawk to prevent problems. Sometimes kids are too rough and dog becomes aggressive just trying to defend themselves.

              I'd suggest she wait until her kids are a little older as I think there is no perfect dog for her at this time. Puppies are a huge amount of work. And will they have the time to train a young one? Are they willing to take obedience classes? Has your daughter had experience with a puppy?

              "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin

              Comment

                Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                I would tell her to eliminate the "breed cross" concept if she's looking for a "reputable/responsible breeder." They are almost entirely mutually exclusive terms.

                Has the dad ever owned a dog before? No breed is "hypoallergenic" - dander is in the skin, saliva and urine. Breeds that don't shed drop dander less quickly but that doesn't mean people aren't still allergic to them. I know someone that placed a German Wirehaired Pointer with a family and had to pick it up a week later because one of the kids was suffering terribly with allergies. The family was heartbroken but it was not going to be manageable; and GWPs are considered to shed less than many breeds.

                What kind of lifestyle do they have; what size do they want; how willing are they to exercise a dog? That makes a huge difference in recommendations - the needs of a Chinese Crested versus a Portuguese Water Dog are as opposite as can be, although both are characterized by the AKC as "hypoallergenic."
                We once had a GWP who was such a wonderful family dog. He was supposed to become my husband’s hunting dog only we were always busy with the kids’ activities so Buddy was happily the best family dog ever and we love to reminisce about him.

                Now back to our original topic. My daughter is a stay at home mom and son-in-law usually is at work though with COVID he’s been working from home. They have a fenced backyard. He would prefer a medium dog and she is most used to large breeds having had labs, goldens, and Buddy.

                She is aware that no dog is 100% hypoallergenic and that’s why she’s doing her research carefully. We’ve talked about having her husband test allergies with whatever breed(s) they look at closely, but that’s a bit harder with COVID. I think she and I both know if a breed didn’t work out then the pup/dog would end up with me because animals are family members.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Why not foster a dog? That might see how hubby's allergies handle the situation and if things don't work out there is no re-homing involved besides sending it back to the rescue. With small children though I would be careful and only work with a reputable rescue.

                  Comment

                    Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Lusoluv View Post
                    And even specific breeds have their individual characters and personalities that may not match the standard. As in...I had a Shiba Inu. They're famous for hating water (think howling at bath time), and never being trusted off leash. My dog would canoe with us and jump in the water to play. Was great with kids and totally trustworthy off leash. I didn't train these skills, she just offered them. My current Aussie is the most unambitious dog I've had. She just wants to be with you. I do try and keep to an exercise regime, but when it's crummy out, she is happy to hang out in the house and not act nutso. I met her sisters...not so much! So keep an open mind on breed characteristics and make sure to spend as much time as you can with the dog/puppy you're interested in.
                    We’ve raised two pet puppies and many puppies over the years for Guide Dogs for the Blind. Currently we have a lab pup who seems more like a golden retriever in a lab outfit so we understand variations within breeds. With so much experience in puppy raising over the last 20 years for GDB we are pretty good at assessing temperaments and personalities so that will help.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ooh! Try showing her Standard Poodles WITHOUT docked tails. Here is a link to the Instagram hashtag #grosspudel which translates to "Large (Great) Poodle" in German: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/grosspudel/
                      There are US breeders who don't dock and I think Canadian poodles are undocked too. Big fluffy fox tails are so charming!

                      Breeds traditionally considered non- or low-shedding owe this fact to the Furnishings gene. Genetically short-haired furnished dogs are wire-haired like GWPs, Wire-haired Dachshunds, and many terriers. Long-haired furnished dogs are poofy, matting-prone types like Poodles, most Doodles, PWD, Bichon, Maltese, corded breeds, etc.

                      The trade-off with furnished coats is that they need professional or competent amateur grooming. ALL of them. Either the hair falls out naturally (sheds) or it doesn't and needs to be either cut or stripped. The furnishings gene turns off the hair's natural length control so it grows to a uniform length all over their body and doesn't fall out. ALL over their body meaning on their lips and over their whiskers, inside their ears, over their eyes, and over their anus and genitals. Even their eyelashes grow incessantly. Wirehaired breeds grow to a uniform relatively shorter length, but poofy/wooly/corded dog hair will grow and grow and grow (and mat) until the dog can't see, hear, eat, or eliminate. Wirehaired breeds are supposed to have their coats stripped either by hand or with a rake because the hair won't fall out otherwise.

                      Also, if allergenicity is important, even Poodles, Doodles, Bichons, Airedales, etc. need to be genotyped for the second shedding gene (MC5R), because there appears to be significant variability. The second shedding gene might impact the texture of their coat too. I think the ones with 2 copies of the second non-shedding gene are supposed to have softer coats, but I don't have a source for that so take it with a grain of salt.

                      I am pragmatic about Doodles and such. All dog breeds are man-made. As an individual dog-seeker, there are benefits to going with a breed established 50-200 years ago instead of in the past decade, but there are downsides too.

                      I am enthusiastic about this topic so feel free to PM me if you'd like to see my large color-coded chart of dog coat types.
                      Disclaimer: My mom told me that people might look at my name and think I had an addiction other than horses. I don't; his name was Bravado.

                      Comment

                        Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Marla 100 View Post
                        She needs to really, really do her homework on this due to several factors:
                        Even dogs who are known to be good with older kids may NOT tolerate small kids who may not be gentle, kind or well mannered w/ pets. Many otherwise nice dogs get re-homed due to this.

                        What will she do if even the hypoallergenic dog creates problems with her hubby? Re-home the dog? How thoroughly will they
                        investigate this prior to getting a dog? Are you sure the hubby really WANTS a dog? I've seen so many people re-home the family dog once everyone got tired of the work and mess they make. And allergies are often the PC reason.

                        Your daughter will have to watch the interactions of small kids and new dog like a hawk to prevent problems. Sometimes kids are too rough and dog becomes aggressive just trying to defend themselves.

                        I'd suggest she wait until her kids are a little older as I think there is no perfect dog for her at this time. Puppies are a huge amount of work. And will they have the time to train a young one? Are they willing to take obedience classes? Has your daughter had experience with a puppy?
                        Oh, trust me, she will research and overthink everything. 😁 It’s so much easier when GDB hands us a puppy to raise for a year or so and we take whatever breed is available, but that’s not such an easy option for her husband. He is completely on board and his allergies are manageable, she just wants the best option for him. Because we’ve raised so many pups for GDB using their training/raising methods she’s very good with setting pups (and kids) up for success and she’s an excellent handler. My grandkids have experience with the GDB pups that my husband and I have been raising so they know how to behave well with pups. Our family has raised 19 pups for GDB and about half of those while she was still at home so we totally get the need for consistency and how to be successful with a wide range of temperaments and personality traits. Our pups always have good manners, are socialized properly, and are well-trained. And if there are allergy issues that can’t be easily managed then that pup can live with my husband and me. 🙂

                        So that leaves us with general breed considerations.





                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by SusanO View Post
                          Why not foster a dog? That might see how hubby's allergies handle the situation and if things don't work out there is no re-homing involved besides sending it back to the rescue. With small children though I would be careful and only work with a reputable rescue.
                          Good thought though I’m not sure she’s thought a lot about that other than the concern for her kids and not knowing a dog’s background.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            ^^^^ Gotcha! Sounds like you have most of our doubts covered so just ignore my previous warnings.
                            "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin

                            Comment

                              Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by BravAddict View Post
                              Ooh! Try showing her Standard Poodles WITHOUT docked tails. Here is a link to the Instagram hashtag #grosspudel which translates to "Large (Great) Poodle" in German: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/grosspudel/
                              There are US breeders who don't dock and I think Canadian poodles are undocked too. Big fluffy fox tails are so charming!

                              Breeds traditionally considered non- or low-shedding owe this fact to the Furnishings gene. Genetically short-haired furnished dogs are wire-haired like GWPs, Wire-haired Dachshunds, and many terriers. Long-haired furnished dogs are poofy, matting-prone types like Poodles, most Doodles, PWD, Bichon, Maltese, corded breeds, etc.

                              The trade-off with furnished coats is that they need professional or competent amateur grooming. ALL of them. Either the hair falls out naturally (sheds) or it doesn't and needs to be either cut or stripped. The furnishings gene turns off the hair's natural length control so it grows to a uniform length all over their body and doesn't fall out. ALL over their body meaning on their lips and over their whiskers, inside their ears, over their eyes, and over their anus and genitals. Even their eyelashes grow incessantly. Wirehaired breeds grow to a uniform relatively shorter length, but poofy/wooly/corded dog hair will grow and grow and grow (and mat) until the dog can't see, hear, eat, or eliminate. Wirehaired breeds are supposed to have their coats stripped either by hand or with a rake because the hair won't fall out otherwise.

                              Also, if allergenicity is important, even Poodles, Doodles, Bichons, Airedales, etc. need to be genotyped for the second shedding gene (MC5R), because there appears to be significant variability. The second shedding gene might impact the texture of their coat too. I think the ones with 2 copies of the second non-shedding gene are supposed to have softer coats, but I don't have a source for that so take it with a grain of salt.

                              I am pragmatic about Doodles and such. All dog breeds are man-made. As an individual dog-seeker, there are benefits to going with a breed established 50-200 years ago instead of in the past decade, but there are downsides too.

                              I am enthusiastic about this topic so feel free to PM me if you'd like to see my large color-coded chart of dog coat types.
                              I just looked at the Instagram page and I’m in complete agreement about the fluffy fox tails. I know daughter prefers longer tails and doesn’t see a current reason for docking.

                              im going to send her all of your info that you posted.

                              I agree with you about doodles and such. The key is careful breeding.

                              i definitely want to see the chart of dog coat types. 😁

                              Comment

                                Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Marla 100 View Post
                                ^^^^ Gotcha! Sounds like you have most of our doubts covered so just ignore my previous warnings.


                                Hey, you didn’t know our background and you wanted to make sure those things were covered so thank you for that.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  I would say that it depends on the energy level of the family the most. What do they like to do and what kind of lifestyle do they live?

                                  If you are marathon runners, heavy joggers and like to be out for 2+ hikes multiple times per week (if not daily), consider a sporting breed. These dogs are bred to be out, running and flushing game, for 10+ hours per day (Goldens, Weimeraners, labs, pointers etc.). Some lines - if you are careful - will have a lazier and less active version so easier on the burning energy off but still can be quite active. Some of the longer haired breeds tend to have thicker and oilier coats so maybe not best for a hypoallergenic home (lots of hair and lots of dog smell).

                                  The working and herding breeds tend to need more brain stimulation and smarts. They want to work with you and they want you to give them a job. These border collies, Rottweilers, german shepherds etc. Can be fantastic but need things to think about. You will need to take them to class, teach them agility, obedience or something to get their mind busy. In my experience, many of these tend to be less active and require less stimulation by the time they are two. They settle into life and tend to be easy to live with at that point.

                                  Hounds can be aloof and cat like, but sometimes that can make them a bit easier to handle. Whippets are my current dream cat like ninja dogs. They are athletic, quick as a whip and non-smelly. They have horse like hair and not much doggy smell, grease or dander. They also tend to be super lazy .. nothing better than lazing on the couch and sleeping all day, but they will humour the toddler by politely walking around the block if needed. Yes they look weird, but just tell the kids that they like bed time stories and they will comfortably snuggle in to be read to. Also very hardy (generally) with few genetic issues and tend to live to the 15+ years old with no problem. Some lines can be a little nervous and overactive so be careful on what you pick - you want the confident couch potato.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Sanely Eccentric View Post



                                    Hey, you didn’t know our background and you wanted to make sure those things were covered so thank you for that.
                                    Thank You, you're very kind.

                                    I'm on a German Shepherd forum cause that's what I've rescued the last 20 years and you wouldn't believe the newbies thinking
                                    of getting a GSD puppy without forethought on what's required. I see the back story on what happens when those cute little bears
                                    grow up in less than a year, and become unruly, untrained, aggressive, over anxious, under exercised, unsocialized biting machines. So off to the shelters they go.

                                    I had no idea your family is so well prepared and experienced with puppies. What a satisfying contribution you've made to those
                                    puppies. And what a lot of hard work you do. I'd have a hard time giving them back to the organization though so it'd be too hard for me.

                                    No experience here w/ medium size non-allergenic pups. Just Poodle, Bichons, Collies, GSDs. That's all I can contribute.
                                    "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Hi, if she has kid my first instinct would be to go with a Golden Retriever. This is a calm, healthy kid-friendly breed. The only problem is that is his tick fur that can cause allergy in her husband, In that case, you should consider Labrador Retriever. The small breed puppy I would recommend is a Small Schnauzer. They do not shed as much and are perfect for the kids.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Schnauzers need a bit of brushing to get hair out, but don't really shed. It's one of the few breeds a very allergic friend can tolerate. You do have to look at the breeding though (as with anything) to find a calm line. Some can be high strung and yappy. I had one growing up that was the most laid back but friendly and wanting to be with me. She rarely barked... more of a snorter.

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