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  • Originally posted by ynl063w View Post

    I took this to mean that RESPONSIBLE breeding didn’t cause this; I agree with that as well as the rest of this post. I will never rescue a dog. I support responsible breeders by buying their puppies. Why would I want to enable and encourage irresponsible breeders and owners by cleaning up the mess they continually dump in shelters all over the country?

    As far as I’m concerned, the best way to solve this problem is to shut down all the shelters. Make the irresponsible dog owners and breeders take their unwanted animals to the vet and pay to have them euthanized. Round up all the strays and euthanize them as soon as it’s clear an owner isn’t going to claim them, and fine the crap out of the owners that do claim their animals. Crack down on spay and neuter, licensing, micro chipping, and leash laws. Get serious about making irresponsible dog owners’ lives miserable. In other words, stop making life easy for people who decide to get a dog but aren’t interested in being responsible for that dog.

    Shelters are just a way to allow irresponsible dog owners to feel like they did a nice thing for their dog. That option needs to go away.
    So... when a dog runs away and a family can't find it do we just leave them on the streets? Dogs are living animals and sometimes they run off chasing a bird and silly things like that and get lost. Travel far enough that owners weren't able to find them in, what, a week oops too bad now your dog is dead because you took to long and your posters and lost pet posts didn't have a far enough reach? What about horrific events like Katrina where pets are separated from their owners and perhaps the owners can't take them back in because they have no home anymore or the owners did not make it? What about natural life events where older owners pass away and family is unable to take the dog in themselves (or the older owner has no family at all) and the shelter is a resource to help find a loving home for the dog who has done nothing wrong and would make a lovely family pet for someone else?

    Yes, there are definitely people that abuse shelters and treat them like a revolving door. However, there are many completely valid reasons to have shelters available. Shelters are absolutely not JUST for irresponsible owners. Very sad that some see euthing everything no ifs ands or buts as a solution. You do realize that if shelters go away people will just release their dogs into the wild and let them go on their way and that will create an even bigger problem for animal control? Unfortunately, working in the inner city I know many people who have done just that to bypass shelter fees. The ones out here have pretty hefty ones if you want the shelter to take your dog.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ynl063w View Post

      As far as I’m concerned, the best way to solve this problem is to shut down all the shelters. Make the irresponsible dog owners and breeders take their unwanted animals to the vet and pay to have them euthanized.
      Shelters are just a way to allow irresponsible dog owners to feel like they did a nice thing for their dog. That option needs to go away.
      Seriously, NO! You think if people don't want their dog and the only "legal" option is to pay for euthanasia, that's what's going to actually happen?! Hah! Dogs and cats will be released "out in the country". Dogs and cats will be ignored and starved. Dogs and cats will be shot out behind the barn or drowned or... name your horrible death.

      I live up north, where stray dogs are relatively rare NOW; cats - rarer than they use to be. we currently only have one former stray cat. The rescue I've gotten a dog from is working with a shelter that used to shoot the excess dogs. Things have gotten a lot more humane then they used to be. Closing shelters would be turning back the clock.

      And I love my rescue dog, who I got as a puppy - she is an absolute sweet heart and I wouldn't trade her for anything.

      Also, don't make vets clean up this mess. Putting to sleep countless healthy dogs and cats - not what they signed up for.. Their job is hard enough.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ynl063w View Post

        I took this to mean that RESPONSIBLE breeding didn’t cause this; I agree with that as well as the rest of this post. I will never rescue a dog. I support responsible breeders by buying their puppies. Why would I want to enable and encourage irresponsible breeders and owners by cleaning up the mess they continually dump in shelters all over the country?

        As far as I’m concerned, the best way to solve this problem is to shut down all the shelters. Make the irresponsible dog owners and breeders take their unwanted animals to the vet and pay to have them euthanized. Round up all the strays and euthanize them as soon as it’s clear an owner isn’t going to claim them, and fine the crap out of the owners that do claim their animals. Crack down on spay and neuter, licensing, micro chipping, and leash laws. Get serious about making irresponsible dog owners’ lives miserable. In other words, stop making life easy for people who decide to get a dog but aren’t interested in being responsible for that dog.

        Shelters are just a way to allow irresponsible dog owners to feel like they did a nice thing for their dog. That option needs to go away.
        Are you kidding me? This is insane. The issue isn’t that this dog came from a rescue. I am really tired of the broad brush that all shelter/rescue dogs are broken. It simply isn’t true. This could have happened with any dog from a shelter or breeder. The issue here is improper management, training and people not understanding dog behavior. This has absolutely nothing to do with the dog being a rescue. Adopt from a responsible rescue/shelter, get a dog from a reputable breeder, etc. That is a individual choice that I support either way but I don’t understand the vehement hate against rescue dogs that this person is preaching and it is just as bad as the “adopt, don’t shop” people.
        "No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world."
        -Dead Poets Society

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        • There are millions of dogs, millions, perhaps 1/2 of 1 per cent causing harm to humans. I prefer to focus on the the positive influence dogs have on society not the negative. Yeah, sh..t happens. Too bad. Letting oneself become obsessed over anything is not a desireable trait. For those having this affliction, I wish them well and a speedy recovery and they find themselves in an environment where information, probably Google, is not available to feed said obsession. Myself, I've never encountered a media report about dog attacks so I think it must be deliberately sought out.

          Comment


          • I see the attacks a people problem as much as a dog problem. Ignorant owners. I can't count the number of posts on FB about how a person's dog bit the friend/neighbor/relative that entered the yard. The response is always the same - the dog was just being "protective". Sorry, no! If the person was attacking you and the dog bit, then yes, that is protection. If a person who simply trespasses, meaning no harm gets bit/attacked, that is an aggression problem. People don't seem to understand that.

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            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by rubles View Post
              There are millions of dogs, millions, perhaps 1/2 of 1 per cent causing harm to humans. I prefer to focus on the the positive influence dogs have on society not the negative. Yeah, sh..t happens. Too bad. Letting oneself become obsessed over anything is not a desireable trait. For those having this affliction, I wish them well and a speedy recovery and they find themselves in an environment where information, probably Google, is not available to feed said obsession. Myself, I've never encountered a media report about dog attacks so I think it must be deliberately sought out.
              No need to be so ignorant and insulting to other posters attempting to have a civil discussion about a very real problem.

              If you believe innocent people being ripped apart and killed by dogs equates to "shit happens"...what can I say other than I wish you well and carry on.
              Mean Girls grow up to be Mean Women

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Incantation View Post
                I see the attacks a people problem as much as a dog problem. Ignorant owners. I can't count the number of posts on FB about how a person's dog bit the friend/neighbor/relative that entered the yard. The response is always the same - the dog was just being "protective". Sorry, no! If the person was attacking you and the dog bit, then yes, that is protection. If a person who simply trespasses, meaning no harm gets bit/attacked, that is an aggression problem. People don't seem to understand that.
                Some breeds are meant to be territory protective and may not share your human opinion on what is threatening and what is not. Some owners are not responsible and mentally strong enough from a dogs perspective, so they feel they have to act. Some dogs are overwhelmed or even scared in a household with a lot of 'come and go' of different people, so it is on the owners to decide how to avoid stress for everyone.
                To avoid incidents: be aware of small signs, be credible to give your dog security, train the dog to accept/like visitors and/or lock the dog away for a time if needed.
                I am pretty tired of an inflationary use of the word 'aggression'. Some people tend to wonder about behaviour that is not only self-made but can also be a reaction to the challenge to fit in a human world where adapted dogs are required without considering how difficult some situations for dogs (or specific breeds) can be without proper training, support or owners a dog can rely on.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  Originally posted by Salo View Post

                  Some breeds are meant to be territory protective and may not share your human opinion on what is threatening and what is not. Some owners are not responsible and mentally strong enough from a dogs perspective, so they feel they have to act. Some dogs are overwhelmed or even scared in a household with a lot of 'come and go' of different people, so it is on the owners to decide how to avoid stress for everyone.
                  To avoid incidents: be aware of small signs, be credible to give your dog security, train the dog to accept/like visitors and/or lock the dog away for a time if needed.
                  I am pretty tired of an inflationary use of the word 'aggression'. Some people tend to wonder about behaviour that is not only self-made but can also be a reaction to the challenge to fit in a human world where adapted dogs are required without considering how difficult some situations for dogs (or specific breeds) can be without proper training, support or owners a dog can rely on.


                  Are you familiar with the Komodore breed?

                  I have never known of or witnessed a more "territory protective" dog breed than the Komodore. Absolutely beautiful dog, extremely intelligent and fiercely loyal. Definitely not a dog for the average owner.
                  Mean Girls grow up to be Mean Women

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CanadianTrotter View Post
                    I may be wrong and anyone can jump in and correct me...wasnt the original purely bred pit bull purposely bred to attack, maim and kill? Also hasn't the horrendous in/cross breeding created the pit types? Finally isn't it the over breeding of pits/pit types caused the huge overflow of pits/pit types in the shelters?
                    So was the Boston Terrier, Bull Terrier, Jack Russell Terrier, Deerhound, Greyhound, etc etc. Through conscientious breeding, those drives have been adapted to better fit into modern society.

                    It is not like the pit types we see out and about today are the result of a careful breeding program. You'll only see those at conformation and specific performance events (and there, they aren't called "Pit Bulls"). We see the result of careless management, get-rich-quick schemes, and egos + ignorance on leash walks around the neighborhood.

                    I think a multi-pronged approach aimed at supporting and bolstering low income urban and rural, historically minority-dominant communities is required. "Pit bulls" seem to be a side effect that accompanies petty theft, drug trade, teen pregnancy, under employment, etc. If those communities can receive more education and more resources, I think they would also see fewer pit-type dogs.

                    Around here, the Pit Bull was long ago replaced with American Bulldogs, Cane Corsos, and Presa Canarios. Big, bigger, and biggest. Now all so interbred I don't call anything a Pit anymore. I call most I see pit-type.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ynl063w View Post

                      I took this to mean that RESPONSIBLE breeding didn’t cause this; I agree with that as well as the rest of this post. I will never rescue a dog. I support responsible breeders by buying their puppies. Why would I want to enable and encourage irresponsible breeders and owners by cleaning up the mess they continually dump in shelters all over the country?

                      As far as I’m concerned, the best way to solve this problem is to shut down all the shelters. Make the irresponsible dog owners and breeders take their unwanted animals to the vet and pay to have them euthanized. Round up all the strays and euthanize them as soon as it’s clear an owner isn’t going to claim them, and fine the crap out of the owners that do claim their animals. Crack down on spay and neuter, licensing, micro chipping, and leash laws. Get serious about making irresponsible dog owners’ lives miserable. In other words, stop making life easy for people who decide to get a dog but aren’t interested in being responsible for that dog.

                      Shelters are just a way to allow irresponsible dog owners to feel like they did a nice thing for their dog. That option needs to go away.
                      This is not the answer. You only buy purebreds from a responsible breeder. That works for you. I have never purchased a dog. All of my dogs come from shelters or rescue groups. All of my dogs have been wonderful. I have gotten purebreds, mutts and mixes. Why would I pay hundreds to thousands for a dog when I can got to the shelter and get one inexpensively. I do not show dogs or need working dogs. I just have buddies. My shelter dogs have served that purpose just as well as a papered dog.

                      Does something need to be done about puppy mills, abusers etc....Yes. However, what about the family of a student at my school that became homeless due to job loss. Their dog went to the shelter. Should it have gotten put down? I do not think so. What about a person that dies unexpectedly? Should their dog be euthanized? What about the animal abusers dog? That person probably could care less if their dog was put down. They would not feel the punishment, however, the dog is the one that suffers. Please remember, many purebred papered dogs end up in the shelter. I have actually seen dogs turned in with their papers. Just because it is in the shelter does not mean it is inferior.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bicoastal View Post
                        I think a multi-pronged approach aimed at supporting and bolstering low income urban and rural, historically minority-dominant communities is required. "Pit bulls" seem to be a side effect that accompanies petty theft, drug trade, teen pregnancy, under employment, etc. If those communities can receive more education and more resources, I think they would also see fewer pit-type dogs.
                        Wait? What? Oh good lord. Yes, pit bulls are plentiful in inner cities AND also in very "happening" areas as well. Have you not been watching the major pushes to get rid of pit bull bans? You are seriously stereotyping with your statement.

                        Originally posted by spotnnotfarm View Post
                        Please remember, many purebred papered dogs end up in the shelter. I have actually seen dogs turned in with their papers. Just because it is in the shelter does not mean it is inferior.
                        We just had a beautiful tan boston terrier (albeit very skinny and in need of groceries), a yorkie, and a corgi all show up at one of the shelters. I did a double take because those are definitely not as common as others - but yes... totally happens that you will run across pure breds.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Salo View Post

                          Some breeds are meant to be territory protective and may not share your human opinion on what is threatening and what is not. Some owners are not responsible and mentally strong enough from a dogs perspective, so they feel they have to act. Some dogs are overwhelmed or even scared in a household with a lot of 'come and go' of different people, so it is on the owners to decide how to avoid stress for everyone.
                          To avoid incidents: be aware of small signs, be credible to give your dog security, train the dog to accept/like visitors and/or lock the dog away for a time if needed.
                          I am pretty tired of an inflationary use of the word 'aggression'. Some people tend to wonder about behaviour that is not only self-made but can also be a reaction to the challenge to fit in a human world where adapted dogs are required without considering how difficult some situations for dogs (or specific breeds) can be without proper training, support or owners a dog can rely on.
                          Yes, some breeds are bred to be territorial. I still consider it aggression, even though it is desired as part of the job they were bred to do.

                          In any case, the owners I am speaking of, that I read about on FB, have yards not acreage, and with the exception of a Fila, are breeds not meant to be biting their daughter's friend for walking onto the property. They think it is great that their dog is "protective" enough to growl at/bite their friends and neighbors. They don't get that there is a socialization/training/breeding issue with the dog, or that maybe they should take steps to protect the public from their dog, (and the dog from the public). Those are the dogs that are a danger to the public when they get loose.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            Originally posted by Bicoastal View Post

                            So was the Boston Terrier, Bull Terrier, Jack Russell Terrier, Deerhound, Greyhound, etc etc. Through conscientious breeding, those drives have been adapted to better fit into modern society.
                            And the shepherds and shepherd types were bred to guard and protect, the retrievers were bred to retrieve, etc...

                            I was disagreeing with the poster that said, "breeding didn't cause this". In my opinion breeding has caused all traits and temperments in all breeds of dogs and most other domesticated animals as well.
                            Mean Girls grow up to be Mean Women

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              Originally posted by spotnnotfarm View Post
                              Please remember, many purebred papered dogs end up in the shelter. I have actually seen dogs turned in with their papers. Just because it is in the shelter does not mean it is inferior.
                              My first purebred King Shepherd came from a shelter.
                              Mean Girls grow up to be Mean Women

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                              • Original Poster

                                Even the original owner of the Labradoodle has regrets.



                                https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...P0s?li=AAggNb9
                                Mean Girls grow up to be Mean Women

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