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Rescue Dogs - Enlighten Me Please

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  • Rescue Dogs - Enlighten Me Please

    please enlighten me concerning rescue dogs ....herding breeds

    the ‘shutdown’ dogs ... emotionally scarred from mill environment

    ‘flight risk’

    SENIOR DOGS

    people shy ....shut down .... no recall

    will they ever be off leash again ?

    will they ever be able to ride loose in truck / atv

    * I know they are all different but

    IS THIS JUST TOO FAR FETCHED (sorry the pun) for one to think a house / barn property without a fenced backyard would be the appropriate home ...

    it’s been advised slip lead at all times ...as fenced run unavailable
    so in tack room ? Or house or on leash ....

    * I have always been blessed with Velcro Aussies


    what say you Cothers .....

    take a pass
    Or
    accept the challenge
    or
    find a new puppy from a reputable breeder

    please offer any breeders you would recommend

    Thank You !!



    Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

  • #2
    Have had several adult rescue dogs.
    1. First one, shep/chow mix. She was pretty much a velcro dog Adopted at 2 yrs old. Was good off leash except for her passion for water - ponds/streams, lol. Came to barn with me. Great temperment, More recently I rarely have dogs off leash except at home. But we live/walk in small town.
    2. One is Dachsie/maybe boarder collie mix. Was 2 when adopted, settled in very quickly. He has a slightly weird leash aggression issue. He also has a hunting fixation though he never went thru inv. fence. Sweet, smart, funny and a perfect Therapy Dog.
    3. One chow/golden came to us at a year old. Sweet dog, though he did not like outsiders to pet him on the head. Guests who didn't know him were told to ignore him and pet other dog. Then he would push his way into middle for attention and all was well.
    4. Most recent girl is some type of shep mix, came from kill shelter to foster home, had 9 puppies and treated for heartworm. 3ish when I got her. We fenced in yard with real fence as I didn't sense she would be trustworthy on the IF. Her demeanor was sweet but reserved, did not connect for quite a while, but after 6 months the changes got more and more obvious. She will start Therapy Dog training in about 2 weeks.
    Impossible to know if any would tick all those boxes - A rescue puppy with some idea of breed could well be trained and developed. Young adult maybe. Senior dog, who knows. Personally I would have at least some area fenced as it just makes life easier.

    If you are looking at rescues - I really recommend dogs who have been in foster home environment. You will be able to get a much better idea of personality, interaction w/ other people and animals, training, if any etc. They are also likely to be much less stressed
    Attached Files

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    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thank you ...2tempe
      Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

      Comment


      • #4
        A lot will depend upon underlying genetics as to how close to normal you can get.

        Flight risk as a hardwired behavior may be tough to overcome.

        No to riding loose in the truck, not safe for any dog.

        Much depends upon how much time you have to devote to emotional rehab.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thank
          Originally posted by Marshfield View Post
          A lot will depend upon underlying genetics as to how close to normal you can get.

          Flight risk as a hardwired behavior may be tough to overcome.

          No to riding loose in the truck, not safe for any dog.

          Much depends upon how much time you have to devote to emotional rehab.

          Loose in truck.....NOT THE BACK END !
          I would never do that !!

          I meant loose inside the cab of the truck.

          * with a window partially down ... I mean when I can’t hold and drive at the same time. I speaking about any normalcy ..??? Ever ? Eventually ???


          I can devote the time
          I’m questioning the ‘flight risk’ on acres and woods forever

          I know nothing is for certain • just a guesstimate ..,,


          Thanks for your input Marshfield ... appreciate all the opinions/ info I can gather.

          Perhaps a family with a secure fence backyard would be better for their rehab/ life.
          Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

          Comment


          • #6
            It's impossible to say because there is no way of knowing if the behavior is "scarring from a puppy mill environment" or badly bred dogs that have inherited sketchy temperaments. Temperament is inherited from the parents and good breeders ensure that the parents have correct temperaments (for their breed) before breeding. If that wasn't done, it could be the (unintentional) product of generations of bad temperaments.

            Unless the puppy/dog has endured significant trauma, I would not assume that a dog that is flighty and reactive will change a lot. Good owners often know how to set the dog up for success rather than try to change the temperament.

            How old is this dog? Has it been with a foster family?

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7




              Originally posted by S1969 View Post
              It's impossible to say because there is no way of knowing if the behavior is "scarring from a puppy mill environment" or badly bred dogs that have inherited sketchy temperaments. Temperament is inherited from the parents and good breeders ensure that the parents have correct temperaments (for their breed) before breeding. If that wasn't done, it could be the (unintentional) product of generations of bad temperaments.

              Unless the puppy/dog has endured significant trauma, I would not assume that a dog that is flighty and reactive will change a lot. Good owners often know how to set the dog up for success rather than try to change the temperament.

              How old is this dog? Has it been with a foster family?
              no one knows anything about the history
              warned would be considered a ‘flight risk’
              not reactive
              shut down

              I understand the ‘setting’ up for success... that’s exactly what I am trying to do - certainly not trying to change the dog’s temperament...
              I am not versed in rescue dogs
              I simply asking for any information / guesstimates / case stories.

              I would like to adopt a rescue dog ???

              Thank you for your information S1969

              *** The dog is 10 yo ... no not with foster family in a rescue facility.
              Last edited by Zu Zu; Jul. 20, 2019, 02:23 PM. Reason: Addition age
              Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

              Comment


              • #8
                I've had 2 shepherd or mix rescues- both around 2ish- both had just had puppies. Both from county shelter.

                First one was an anomaly as she was almost the perfect dog. Never ever a problem after one or two escapes over a 6 ft.

                privacy fence. But she was in heat and too skinny to spay so we were on hold for improving her condition. Easy dog.

                2nd- wonderful farm dog, but all fenced acreage. Wanted to chase then herd horses. Now is fine and ignores them.

                Lots of one on one training for farm dog activities...cats- ok now. would have been a flight risk early on until she learned

                good recall. But she is dog reactive. With slow introductions she's OK, but all other strange dogs upset her.

                they do take daily attention and re-training and obedience training. They can eventually become best friend dogs. Maybe

                not velcro dogs.

                I would only take your new rescue if you could keep it on a leash the first few months till you get a good recall and the

                dog bonds to you somewhat. I'd keep it in the house with you. And interact often and talk lots to it. Let it sleep in your room and become a family member.

                I think it's doable if you have the time and patience.
                "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  thanks Marla 100

                  dog is not housebroken
                  not crate trained - anxiety issues
                  have pet gates


                  I was ready for Obedience classes
                  but not
                  rec not for awhile = too people shy / shut down


                  just not sure - would like to adopt but having a tough time imagining my barn day/work with dog on leash = they say always a slip leash not a long check cord

                  ??!!
                  Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    what breed of dog? Male or female?

                    If a smart breed, even adults can be housebroken relatively easily if you're attentive and take out every few hours- just like

                    you'd train a puppy.

                    I've never used a crate so I can't advise there. I like my dogs to be free in the house but that's just me.

                    I'd give doggy some time before expecting too much, but once it starts responding a little to you, your voice, your location, watching you....I'd start mini obedience sessions even in the house.

                    My current rescue had no manners and certainly no obedience- she was wild and unruly. almost feral, but friendly.

                    I kept her in my house and took her on leash out to my barn for my chores. She learned quickly she stayed by or near me.

                    I had an internal clock to take her out every 2 hours. She also had much anxiety. but she's become much calmer.

                    I bought "Composure" by Vetriscience, herbals and vitamins for anxiety, but she will not touch the chews.

                    electrical storm here , will continue below so I don't loose the content here.

                    ​​​​​​​
                    "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      By mini obedience I mean simple manner- sit, stay, come, down, sit by door to go out, walk slowly beside me, don't pull

                      on leashe, etc. Can all be taught on leash and even in the house.

                      It's amzing how quickly the rescue can pick things up once they start getting a little attached to you.

                      Some people believe in attaching dog's leash to your belt while in the house to strengthen the attachment bond.

                      As far as riding in the cab of the truck, initially I hold onto their leash . My dog did jump out of cab while my son took her to

                      the mailboxes. But he's not especially attentive.

                      You might want to get a harness for the early handling around the barn. I've never used a slip leash.

                      "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My opinion with rescues - the dog you see may be the dog you have forever. So, you need to be prepared for that - it may not be possible for you to trust it off leash, ever. If that won't work with your lifestyle, you will need to pass.

                        That said, I think most dogs can be trained. Not necessarily trained equally or the same way, but trained. I think most dogs can be trained to be ok in a crate, if it is done properly. I think most dogs can be house trained. I think it is likely that the dog will improve in how they respond to people, etc.

                        But some dogs are really never ok off lead; and even well-bred dogs of some breeds are not recommended off leash in most places. Do you have a fenced yard? I have well-bred dogs that are trained to e-collars and we go off leash every day....but I would never expect them to stick around while I'm busy doing barn chores. They might, but they might not. I'm happy to leave them in the yard, protected by the fence, or in the house. It works well.

                        In a vehicle, mine are in crates. When we had a truck we had an extended cab and the crate was in the back of the cab. Loose dogs in vehicles are safety hazards in many ways - so lots of people consider it safer to restrain them with a crate or a dog seat belt/harness. Is that an option?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zu Zu View Post
                          Thank


                          Loose in truck.....NOT THE BACK END !
                          I would never do that !!

                          I meant loose inside the cab of the truck.

                          * with a window partially down ... I mean when I can’t hold and drive at the same time. I speaking about any normalcy ..??? Ever ? Eventually ???


                          I can devote the time
                          I’m questioning the ‘flight risk’ on acres and woods forever
                          Not loose in the cab either. I've seen too many urestrained dogs hurt in motor vehicle accidents. Crates have saved my dogs from injury. Heat meant the dogs stayed home on the day my friend was hit head on by a drunk driver. Thank God, because her dogs ride loose and I would have had to go pick up the corpses

                          As for flight risk, there is an incredible group near me, Granite State Dog Rescue (could be recovery) and many of their cases are dogs who fled new homes shortly after arrival. The first six months are probably going to be the toughest

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Is the dog close enough to you that you could possibly arrange an in home trial or a short term foster? IDK, but some dogs don’t do well in a shelter situation and shut down. It could be possible that the pup might be very different in your home vs the rescue/kennel situation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One of the better local shelters let me take an Aussie Shepherd/Husky mix they couldn't seem to find a home for after 3 months' holding because of his strange mannerisms--6 months old. Suffice it to say he was standoffish, stressed, and shut down. People coming to this shelter mostly want a super-affectionate Love Object of Eternal Devotion who acts like a human child; this guy was never going to be that. Fortunately, I wanted a working livestock/security dog for gainful employment!

                              Pup was the output of a backyard breeder, from whom he was seized for neglect at 3 months, completely unhandled and unsocialized. The shelter proceeded to vaccinate, worm, clip, bathe, groom, castrate, etc. at brain-frying speed in between thrusting him together with all kinds of other dogs (think adult pit bulls) in attempts to get him to "play." He reacted, sensibly, like a wild wolf pup suddenly in captivity. When I got him, they billed him as a "Shy Dog" who was an extreme flight risk. They allowed me to take him because he'd have a double-fenced yard, a pack and a JOB.

                              Well, the little dude wasn't "shy" at all; he just had a healthy sense of who he was AS A DOG (vs. surrogate human child) and you had to approach him on his own terms. Outdoor pack life was his comfort zone as that's all he'd ever known. Within 6 weeks he was sleeping happily overnight with my other dogs in outside kennel run and tool shed; completely broke to Invisible Fence perimeter inside hard-fenced yard; terrific guard dog whose primitive streak via the Husky side means he's much more dialed-in to his surroundings than most ordinary dogs; he quickly became the "strike hound" who alerts first, with the rest of the crew "honoring" his alerts, even from half-grown puppyhood!

                              We established "rules" for me to approach and leash him; a certain place, a certain treat, a certain order in which we did things; predictable and methodical, just like with horses. His default "pancake" reaction like a PTSD case is all gone now; I can catch, leash, groom, cut nails, and cut mats out of his ears if need be now while he sits like a statue; and he's a gentleman in every way. He likes to swipe my chair on the back porch and elevate himself over the Lab, the Aussie and his baby Aussky sister from the same breeder, via the same shelter. Bar none, the smartest, coolest, thinkingest, most instinctive dog I've every owned, and I've had dogs since forever! Every baby-step where he concedes more trust to me is a thrill--and our communication is now almost telepathic. "Needy," sycophantic dogs are EASY--this guy makes me work for it! He's now completely comfortable with a predictable, understandable, companionable doggy world. It helps that my horse vet comes to us, and he gets his shots without even realizing anything's happened. Haven't tried the car; he may never need to worry about going off the place.

                              Come to him on his terms. Make it worth his while. Work with his instincts, not against them. Do not expect human type cognition or affection, especially at first. Herders need a job! Remember they're all individuals, just like people.

                              Oh, and be prepared to pay and say whatever the shelter folks want to hear (and deposit!) if you think you're the right person for this dog. Too often today, they're holding out for some theoretical "perfect" home that may never come along instead of the "good enough!" home you can give the dog right now, today, and start him on a useful and enjoyable life.

                              My boy may be a lot of interesting things a year later, but "shy" and wimpy sure as heck aren't any of 'em! And one guess who's the first one in the kitchen now, hogging the best spot in front of the box fan!
                              Last edited by Crashing Boar; Jul. 20, 2019, 07:13 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Barn Mom View Post
                                Is the dog close enough to you that you could possibly arrange an in home trial or a short term foster? IDK, but some dogs don’t do well in a shelter situation and shut down. It could be possible that the pup might be very different in your home vs the rescue/kennel situation.
                                I think a trial period is an excellent idea, this is what I did with my last death row rescue. He was so damaged that I was worried I may not be the right person or home for him.

                                Trust your instincts and try not to worry, your confidence will help the dog considerably.

                                Best of luck...I hope it works out for both of you.
                                Mean Girls grow up to be Mean Women

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  How a dogs behaves in a kennel/shelter tells me nothing. Some had a normal life before and are fine as soon as they left the shelter behind them.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I have had quite a few. I rarely believe in off leash anyways, just because of streets, can't get them away if eating something gross, don't want in the way of horses etc.

                                    My rescues, if loose, would run though.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I just got the fact that you are considering a specific dog. Any idea what type of breed(s)? Herding dogs are smart, so that should help.

                                      And this one sounds like a project. With my shep mix the beginning was hard because I wanted to pet her, interact with her, etc and yet I knew that she wasn't totally ready for too much of that. Needed some time and space to settle, Baby steps. It helped enormously that she had another dog to bond with. She didn't even know how to learn things - no confidence.
                                      You can make progress with the dog, but at 10 yrs old, it will be slow. It can also be tremendously rewarding.

                                      Another vote for a trial.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        If a trial was possible it would have already happened

                                        too far away

                                        thank you for all your help ~
                                        Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

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