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NEED HELP WITH MY TWH

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  • NEED HELP WITH MY TWH

    I adopted a TWH on Oct 18th, where he lived was 7 other horses. Souvie is 19y/o and very passive. The previous owners had issues where there other horses would steal his food and he wouldn’t be able to eat. He had to either be kept in a small sand paddock or a stall because the other horses would beat on him. Now here comes my problem. We have 3 horses total on my farm. 2 quarter horses a mare and a gelding. And then my TWH. The two quarter horses stay in their own pasture, but do get let out to free roam at times. Souvie is fine with this but he keeps his distance. Now when it comes to riding Souvie it is completely different. Souvie will NOT refuses to ride alone. If there is not another horse for him to ridewith he flips out. Won’t move and goes rightback home. He will not saddle or tack up at his barn, he has to be by the other two horses.Not even in their pasture but has to see them. What do I do about this? Souvie any other time has great ground manners. He free roams the property all day and goes into his pasture atnight. Genius Souvenir is the great grandson to the famous Midnight Sun. His dad is PridesGenius. He comes from a long line of dressage show horses. What can I do??? Please help, I really want Souvie to get his confidence backthat he don’t need another horse with him towalk.

  • #2
    he's barn sour. Short answer, you need eyes on the ground help, a real person in person. He's your first horse, right?

    Comment


    • #3
      I second the barn sour.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by TMares View Post
        he's barn sour. Short answer, you need eyes on the ground help, a real person in person. He's your first horse, right?
        yes he is my first horse. The previous owners said he was the same when they had him too. That he would only follow won’t lead and won’t walk alone.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by jazz8899 View Post
          I second the barn sour.
          I try and even take him to walk outside the 5 acres and if he can’t see the other horses he turns around and runs back to the property. I have tried many times

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Misty / Souvie View Post

            I try and even take him to walk outside the 5 acres and if he can’t see the other horses he turns around and runs back to the property. I have tried many times
            That is basically the definition of barn sour. Horses are herd animals, of course he doesn't want to leave. It is not something that cant be overcome though, it can be hard and sometimes frightening if you are not experienced. I will be campy here but you have to convince him basically you are boss enough you can lead the herd and this s*** ain't acceptable.
            I recommend a trainer. While there is some stuff you can do to help with the barn area situation, you have to learn to ride it out as well and for that you want someone there to tell you how to react with whatever he throws at you. If he was doing this with his previous owners as well this may be a big fight, or he could just give up immediately after the trainer gets on and never do it again.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hire local help.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by jazz8899 View Post

                That is basically the definition of barn sour. Horses are herd animals, of course he doesn't want to leave. It is not something that cant be overcome though, it can be hard and sometimes frightening if you are not experienced. I will be campy here but you have to convince him basically you are boss enough you can lead the herd and this s*** ain't acceptable.
                I recommend a trainer. While there is some stuff you can do to help with the barn area situation, you have to learn to ride it out as well and for that you want someone there to tell you how to react with whatever he throws at you. If he was doing this with his previous owners as well this may be a big fight, or he could just give up immediately after the trainer gets on and never do it again.
                i will seek out a trainer then that is experienced in this behavior. I have no issue admitting I am no pro and far from it. I will do what it takes even if I have to hire 10 different trainers to get him right.

                Comment


                • #9
                  He doesn't need confidence. He's barn sour. If he's your first horse you need to bring in a trainer to help you so you don't end up getting hurt. If you can't even lead him away from the other horses, this isn't something you will get through on your own.
                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Misty / Souvie View Post

                    i will seek out a trainer then that is experienced in this behavior. I have no issue admitting I am no pro and far from it. I will do what it takes even if I have to hire 10 different trainers to get him right.
                    Excellent. That is a good start, with a trainer it should go well

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bogie View Post
                      He doesn't need confidence. He's barn sour. If he's your first horse you need to bring in a trainer to help you so you don't end up getting hurt. If you can't even lead him away from the other horses, this isn't something you will get through on your own.
                      i agree. If I could it would have already happened. He has never tried to hurt me in any way YET and I don’t want that to happen now. I will get a trainer out here

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What do you mean by "dressage show horse"? TWHs are great at gaited dressage but "a long line of dressage show horses" doesn't exactly go with the TWH breed. What are his dressage bloodlines? You say he is a descendant of Midnight Sun. On his sire's side? Is his dam another breed?

                        I am sorry you bought him without trying him at his previous owners' place. I'm assuming you didn't try him there, because they have told you he was barn sour there too.

                        Definitely find a trainer to help you.

                        Good luck with Souvie!

                        Rack on!

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
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                          Originally posted by Rackonteur View Post
                          What do you mean by "dressage show horse"? TWHs are great at gaited dressage but "a long line of dressage show horses" doesn't exactly go with the TWH breed. What are his dressage bloodlines? You say he is a descendant of Midnight Sun. On his sire's side? Is his dam another breed?

                          I am sorry you bought him without trying him at his previous owners' place. I'm assuming you didn't try him there, because they have told you he was barn sour there too.

                          Definitely find a trainer to help you.

                          Good luck with Souvie!
                          No TWH on both sides here are his papers


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Those aren't dressage horses. Is English your first language? Asking kindly!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Misty / Souvie View Post

                              i agree. If I could it would have already happened. He has never tried to hurt me in any way YET and I don’t want that to happen now. I will get a trainer out here
                              That's great. Safety is paramount. The problem with horses that get that herd bound is that their brain shuts off and they can become frantic. I have a horse that is a bit like that. He didn't get frantic when HE left but if his buddy left he'd go ballistic. I did fix it by taking his friend away for short periods of time (like 5 minutes) and bringing him back. Over and over again. It was a long process but it worked. It's harder if the horse that's with you is the one that gets frantic. You could also talk to your vet about giving small amounts of Ace at the beginning. Ace is an anti-anxiety medication (also used as a sedative) that can help some horses IF you give it to them before they get distressed. It's not a long term solution but it might help you get the process started. Horses do learn on ace (some people disagree) and it takes the edge off. however, since you've not experienced this before, a trainer is the safest route to a good outcome. Good luck.
                              Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                              EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I used to have a horse who had separation anxiety at our first barn. As long as she could see another horse (from the barn, from the arena) she was fine, but if there were no horses in sight she got very stressed out. We moved to another barn and she was much better there (very different atmosphere, the arenas were within sight of the pastures or the stalls!). She was the first horse I'd ever ridden who had this anxiety; I've ridden horses who resisted walking away from the barn but once we'd gotten away from it they were fine on their own. To me that was being barn sour, putting up some resistance (nothing major) about leaving the barn but fine once on their way. This mare had no problem leaving the barn area as long as she could see other horses.
                                Rack on!

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by TMares View Post
                                  Those aren't dressage horses. Is English your first language? Asking kindly!!

                                  Yes ENGLISH is my only language! What kind of question is that?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Suggestion until you find a trainer --can't hurt and might help. You should plan work with your horse about an hour a day minimum, twice a day, morning and afternoon is better. But never more than an hour or so as at this point, you are going to teach him new stuff and his brain can't take lots of new stuff at once --short lessons are best --20 minutes warm up going over previous day's work, 20 new stuff, 20 cool down reviewing previous days work. Seven days a week is best, but most folks don't have that kind of time, but minimum of 5 sequential days is ideal.

                                    Get yourself a rope halter and look on YouTube for how to put it on properly. Get a shortish lunge line --17-20 feet --not 50. Take horse to where he is comfortable but you have 40-50 feet of space. You will most likely need a short lunge whip, although a long dressage whip will do. Some folks add a plastic bag to the end for visibility.

                                    Start by grooming horse, this is pleasant for him. Make sure he's relaxed --maybe this needs to be close to the other horses --that's ok. Saddle as if for riding --if English, make sure stirrups are secure. Take horse to where you plan to work him --should be same place every day for awhile --remember, he needs to be comfortable --so as close to the other horses as you can be and still have a place to work him.

                                    1. Start by reviewing ground manners: He should lead with head at your shoulder, stop when you do, back when you face him. He should stand quietly while you walk to his hip and back. He should pick up his feet. Rub him all over with the lunge whip. If he has a "don't touch me place," rub that too, but gently. Again this should take about 20 min. You are warming up.

                                    2. Next start the horse at a walk on the lunge rope --again, he should be relaxed because he's by his friends. See if he'll walk and trot on verbal commands, reenforced by your lunge whip. Try to move your feet as little as possible. If he hangs on the lunge rope, give him short jerks --his job is to keep it somewhat slack, and make a quiet circle around you. Reverse, do the same. Keep his feet moving for 20 min. (I don't canter on a short lunge rope just trot-trot-trot) At the end of the 20 min, pat, praise, and lead him away from the other horses as far as you can without feeling him tense and resist. The SECOND he becomes uncomfortable, stop, and do your cool down.

                                    3. Practice leading, picking up feet, standing still, moving his hip away from you, and backing. If you have to face him to his buddies --ok, but do your best to spend 20 min at the edge of his comfort zone. Take back to barn, untack, go on with you day --MAKE NOTE of where he was willing to stop --put a stick or rock there --that's your goal next time, move him to that spot and maybe a step or two past that spot next time without him becoming upset.

                                    What he's going to figure out --and I think it will be in 4-5 days (4-5 hours) of work --clearly shorter if you can do twice a day, is being AWAY from friends = rest and reward. Being WITH friends = WORK (small circles are a lot of work for horses). Once he's willing to be lead away from buddies, you can see that riding him away would be the next step. Get on and ride him in 10m circles at a trot right beside his buddies. When he's going well and relaxed, make a straight line away from buddies (straight is the reward -it's easier) --the SECOND he becomes agitated --turn him back and again do 10 m circles right beside buddies. He WILL figure out Buddies Mean Work ---quiet horses are rewarded with less work.

                                    In subsequent days, remember to start where you left off --I generally do an abbreviated version of the "ground manners" then go to lunging as the horse catches on. A number of DVDs have ideas for Ground Manners --personally I use the ground manners DVD "Gaining Respect on the Ground" by Clinton Anderson (no flames, please,he's one of many who cover the same material) --it's 8 practices well explained that give a plan for ground work --nothing more really, and I think lots is on YouTube.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I think we're just wondering why you think he comes from dressage lines when you've said that he's TWH on both sides. Just asking nicely, not criticizing.

                                      I've placed your horse's sire now. He's a full brother to Pride's Gold Coin, who sired my friend's old mare. And it's like I thought -- your boy goes back to Go Boy's Souvenir, so he has Merry Go Boy as well as Midnight Sun. I can't make out the dam's name on the copy you posted, nor do I recognize her sire and dam.

                                      Like TMares said, those aren't dressage lines. They're good TWH lines! But who told you they were dressage horses?
                                      Last edited by Rackonteur; Nov. 15, 2017, 12:29 PM.
                                      Rack on!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        OP, it is hard to convey your thoughts in text as it is hard to understand what a poster has written. And we have posters from all over the world on here, bith those residing here now and some still in other countries so don’t take anything personally.

                                        Im having a little trouble understanding the Dressage -TWH connection too. It would be quite unusual. TWHs are bred for some traits that make classical Dressage very difficult to execute. TWHs have been bred for conformation allowing a running walk, the Dressage horse must be built to perform flawlessly at the 3 traditional gaits. It’s not the same type horse physically.

                                        Youve learned a lot lately and are really just starting out with this horse and things like this are to be expected developing a new partnership.Im sure he’d rather be standing in the field with his buddies, I would too. But we all have to learn to get over that and go to work,
                                        .

                                        You have some good suggestions above, hang in there and remember horses love, love, love routine and consistency, it make them feel secure, So get on a schedule and be consistent every time you handle him. You’ll get there.
                                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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