• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Questions re: QH/Paint breeders, AQHA, and worth of horses

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Original Poster

    #21
    Ok and no one has touched the subject about how they make money on inexpensive stock. Being in the warmblood world, I can't see making money on anything less than $12k for a foal, $15k for a yearling, etc. For instance, Arabian, QH, Paint and TB (or crosses) stallions sell for well under $7500. You can't find any warmblood stallions for sale under that amount. No one will breed to anything worth that amount either.

    Comment


    • #22
      I think your world is very small. The economics of the situation are quite different out west and in places where horses are actually used as part of a cattle management system or for another type of actual job that generates income.

      Comment


      • #23
        You also have to compare well bred to well bred. Try to look up the cost of a good HUS horse or WP horse.

        I can buy a Trakhener here locally for $2k (several large breeders), a well bred yearling for the performance world (QH) is going to be ~$10k or more.

        And as BayRoan mentions, other horses are bred as secondary to a cattle operation etc.

        Comment


        • #24
          Just for comparison purposes, I think a lot of people who are breeding warmbloods with the expectations of selling them for five figures are delusional. I just have to look on Craigslist or even Dreamhorse. You may so those aren't the great breeders. I think that might be my point.
          Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.
          Starman

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by BayRoan View Post
            I think your world is very small. The economics of the situation are quite different out west and in places where horses are actually used as part of a cattle management system or for another type of actual job that generates income.
            This. If ranches don't breed and raise their own horse stock for use in their operations, they buy from the sell off from those who do. And honestly, a good ranch-broke gelding who has had a job can go for some pretty nice money.

            Comment


            • #26
              I'm kinda-sorta likely to be in the market this fall for a kid-and-grandma horse so I've been sporadically browsing the horse-for-sale web sites. Just looked on Dreamhorse and something jumped out at me because I was reading this thread just a little while ago. On the first page of search results I found:

              10 QHs, 7 of which were priced above $10,000, the cheapest was an aged broodmare for $2750 and the most expensive were the 3 listed at $15,000.

              There was also one that was already sold that was listed at $18,000.

              The cheapest warmblood was $4,200, the most expensive was $35,000.

              The most expensive horse on the page was a $40,000 Thoroughbred event horse.
              Last edited by NoSuchPerson; Jun. 14, 2013, 10:44 PM. Reason: fix typo
              "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
              that's even remotely true."

              Homer Simpson

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by JumperFyre View Post
                For instance, Arabian, QH, Paint and TB (or crosses) stallions sell for well under $7500. You can't find any warmblood stallions for sale under that amount. No one will breed to anything worth that amount either.
                You are comparing high-quality warmblood prices to low-quality Arab/Paint/QH/Whatever prices. Well bred, well-built stallions from all of the breeds you have listed fetch well over the $7,500, specifically those that have achieved success in the breed show rings. Like Varian Arabians, where practically all their potential show stock is over $8,000. There are occasionally family horses for $5,000 or less.

                Also, breeders charge what the buyer will pay. Period. Warmbloods still have an air of exotic newness that people like in most parts of the US. For a nice performance horse, people pay more. For a horse with very nice performance lines that looks fancy and moves fancy, people pay more. No matter the breed. There are still warmbloods that end up on the low end - $2,000. There are Quarter Horses that sell for over $50,000. And ANY breed can and will end up without papers in the kill pen for $50. You probably see more QH type horses because of the sheer volume.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by JumperFyre View Post

                  If they support slaughter that explains why they won't limit breeding....
                  That's a pretty big leap...

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by JumperFyre View Post
                    Ok and no one has touched the subject about how they make money on inexpensive stock. Being in the warmblood world, I can't see making money on anything less than $12k for a foal, $15k for a yearling, etc. For instance, Arabian, QH, Paint and TB (or crosses) stallions sell for well under $7500. You can't find any warmblood stallions for sale under that amount. No one will breed to anything worth that amount either.


                    Some of the highest stud fees for performing stallions are in the QH world. When I started breeding WBs, I was actually quite shocked at the reasonable fees for top producing stallions, both in Europe and in the U.S.

                    Top QH prospects out of top performing parents can bring well in excess of 6 figures. World champion open and amy horses can bring prices rivaling a top hunter on today's market. Just like in the WB world, a good AQHA stallion prospect will bring big bucks. You're looking in the wrong place.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      Well some QH judge emailed me and attacked me saying that his $2500 stallion that he has for sale doesn't need to be gelded! How comical. Why would anyone breed to a stallion only worth a few thousand dollars???? I've paid more than $2500 in semen from stallions worth in the 7 digits. Just shows their level of knowledge and yet they are allowed to judge!

                      I just don't understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.

                      Btw I'm not saying there aren't high quality horses in every breed, that's obvious. I'm picking on the low grade horses at the moment.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        No, you are just being obnoxious. Emailing strangers to tell them to geld their horses? Wow. All that money you spend on WBs doesn't buy manners, apparently.

                        If you want the horse gelded, buy it yourself and do as you like.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by JumperFyre View Post
                          Well some QH judge emailed me and attacked me saying that his $2500 stallion that he has for sale doesn't need to be gelded! How comical. Why would anyone breed to a stallion only worth a few thousand dollars???? I've paid more than $2500 in semen from stallions worth in the 7 digits. Just shows their level of knowledge and yet they are allowed to judge!

                          I just don't understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.

                          Btw I'm not saying there aren't high quality horses in every breed, that's obvious. I'm picking on the low grade horses at the moment.
                          Sorry to say, I think you are trolling, because that is one of the most absurd posts I have read here.

                          I doubt that you ever bought any semen for any amount from anywhere, or indeed contacted anyone, other than in your imagination.

                          There are forums where you can play in an imaginary horse world, owning your farm and being king too, or queen, whatever suits anyone.
                          COTH is not one of those places, if you have not noticed yet.

                          Quit feeding the troll, unless you are out for some entertainment value.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            OK, I'll bite. I live in an area where it's possible if you have land to keep a horse for basically $600 a year. Less if you do your own trimming. A lot of people don't have $10,000 to spend on a horse, but they'll pay $800 - $5000. Stud fee $250, sell as weanling for $400 = profit. Buy for $400, start it at 2 yourself, sell for $2500 = profit. No big outlay, so who cares if the profit margin isn't huge. Their owners don't care about great conformation. They care about being halfway safe on trail on weekends. They don't look on horses as an investment, but as something they get for their personal use. If a few stud fees a year or selling a weanling helps pay the feed bill then they're ahead.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Well some QH judge emailed me and attacked me saying that his $2500 stallion that he has for sale doesn't need to be gelded! How comical. Why would anyone breed to a stallion only worth a few thousand dollars???? I've paid more than $2500 in semen from stallions worth in the 7 digits. Just shows their level of knowledge and yet they are allowed to judge!

                              I just don't understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.

                              Btw I'm not saying there aren't high quality horses in every breed, that's obvious. I'm picking on the low grade horses at the moment.
                              Well bless your heart.

                              I guarantee you did not actually contact the AQHA, and I'm not sure how you think you actually contacted a judge.

                              I'm also wondering what $ and semen have to do with each other. A stallion I really loved in a warmblood breed was free to select mares and under $500 normally, because he'd sustained a freak injury and could not be inspected. I'm sure I should have flamed them and told them to geld him. Money does not equal great conformation nor temperament (plus, I'm wondering if it was actually a stud fee for $2500 as many times that wording is not clear).

                              Money does buy you a lot of things, but apparently not class.

                              BTW, "low grade horses" and quarter horses are not remotely synonymous.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by JumperFyre View Post
                                Ok and no one has touched the subject about how they make money on inexpensive stock. Being in the warmblood world, I can't see making money on anything less than $12k for a foal, $15k for a yearling, etc. For instance, Arabian, QH, Paint and TB (or crosses) stallions sell for well under $7500. You can't find any warmblood stallions for sale under that amount. No one will breed to anything worth that amount either.
                                Really?
                                You know all about the breeding situation in all those registries?
                                I think not.
                                "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  You are also completely missing the point that just because they are stallions doesn't mean they are breeding. Many QH stallions never breed. They are left stallions for performance reasons. There is a school of thought that believes a stallion will show better than a gelding. They spend there careers showing and may never breed if they don't place well enough.

                                  Originally posted by JumperFyre View Post
                                  Well some QH judge emailed me and attacked me saying that his $2500 stallion that he has for sale doesn't need to be gelded! How comical. Why would anyone breed to a stallion only worth a few thousand dollars???? I've paid more than $2500 in semen from stallions worth in the 7 digits. Just shows their level of knowledge and yet they are allowed to judge!

                                  I just don't understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.

                                  Btw I'm not saying there aren't high quality horses in every breed, that's obvious. I'm picking on the low grade horses at the moment.
                                  Positive Step Farm

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    2 other points:

                                    1. TBs, QHs ad many others can be bought cheap many times because they have failed at what they were originally bred for (too slow to race, won't go slow enough for Western Pleasure etc.), but they are still capable of being a very good horse in another discipline.

                                    2. WBs are bred in high numbers in Europe. They are the primary type of horse there and do you know what happens to the culls in Europe? They go to slaughter. The ones that get imported here are some of the best, like the QHs that are exported to Europe.


                                    Christa

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by JumperFyre View Post
                                      I just don't understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.
                                      Well, if you can figure out how to change that, you will win a Nobel Prize. Don't forget to include the puppy mill breeders in your solution.

                                      This issue really isn't about AQHA, or quarter horses, the Jockey Club or the KWPN, or slaughter. It's just the age-old issue of people breeding without a purpose or a market, or the money to keep what doesn't sell, and what happens to the animals after that.

                                      You can beat your head against a brick wall all day long, but it probably won't do any good. And trying to "educate" people in this manner is likely to fail, even if the people actually agree with you.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Christa P View Post
                                        2 other points:

                                        WBs are bred in high numbers in Europe. They are the primary type of horse there and do you know what happens to the culls in Europe? They go to slaughter. The ones that get imported here are some of the best, like the QHs that are exported to Europe.


                                        Christa
                                        Something our little friend has conveniently overlooked.
                                        "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                        ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I think we have a breed snob here. Personally I don't CARE what breed it is, whether or not it has papers, blah blah... I look for a horse that a suitable for the job I ask.

                                          And please keep your touchy feely "racing is cruel" to yourself, I'm an assistant trainer with actual experience on the track. Don't open that can of worms.

                                          Within the last couple of years I have noticed quite a few "breeders" that think their warmblood, part warmblood, or a horse they intend to breed to a warmblood, is automatically better than everyone else's nags. I am not a breeder, nor do I pretend to be one just because I have bred the occasional mare for a foal for my own use. I am of the group that actually uses the horses. We appreciate a good piece of horseflesh, not a horse of a certain "letter" bloodline.

                                          Inspections are for breeders, the good breeders. They serve their purpose in the warmblood world, where everybody across the globe agrees on a general standard. Warmbloods are generally used for true English work. Other breeds however, are used for a wide variety of things. From true western work (cattle ranches, pony horses at the track, etc.) to reining, to cutting, to western pleasure, to fake enlish, to real english, halter, etc. You can NOT put a halter horse through the same inspection standards as a ranch horse.

                                          Please keep in mind that the ads you see online can be very misleading, as well as their prices. You can't average the prices of GOOD horses by what you see online. I never buy or sell online. All of my deals are made with people I am familiar with, in person. When you get around enough you know where to find plenty of quality animals. Not all, but quite a few of the people that sell online are still rather naive. Often times the horses sold online have mental glitch and the seller hopes that the horse can be taken of his hands sight unseen.

                                          "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X